first cycle Primo, T-bol, var and Test E

[FeSBR]

I have laid out a cycle:
1-12 600 mg Primo
1-12 250mg T Cyp
1-6 40mg T-bol
6-12 50mg Var
HCG, Clomid, Nolva, A-dex and aromasin
First cycle mid 40's training for 4 years. I am looking to get bigger, stronger and faster. I like to do endurance cycling, running and swimming so don't intend to get huge just add lean retainable muscle and strength. I wanted to add some muscle but not bloat or hold water for cardio. Originally I was gonna skip the Test but after reading so many posts discouraging that I changed my mind. I was thinking 12.5 aromasin or .5 a-dex ED beginning wk 2. Is one better than the other and how do the dosages look for what is basically just TRT?
Any advice would be helpful. Experience with similar cycle especially.
Thank you.

[Mr.BB]

If you are doing triathlon training you really don't need that cycle. The cycle you layout is a bodybuilding type cycle, you would lose everything right after finishing it as you wouldn't be training and eating for bodybuilding.

There's no way a body will retain muscle with endurance training.

Furthermore, it is wrong to use those compounds for a first cycle. Read here how to do a proper 1st cycle: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

But again for endurance you might have benefits in doing high-end TRT dosage, 200 or 250mg per week, it will improve you training and recovery, but not much muscles gains without weight training.

[PT1982]

That's a whole lot for a first cycle. I would keep it simpler, especially for endurance training. I would drop the anavar completely sure to the brutal pumps. I can't run or bike on anavar. It's one of my favorites, but I am limited as to what I can do. My calves can get pumped just shaking my legs a bit. Test only or test/nandrolone might be a good one for you. As much as I dislike EQ, that might be ok for you as well. Just don't overcomplicate it, as your first cycle is normally one of your better ones.

[FeSBR]

Thank you fellas.
I do tend to complicate things from time to time (read - always).
I did not realize anavar pumps were quite that debilitating.
Of course you know why newbs consider cycles with the above ingredients...seemed perfect to me with lean gains and strength.
I don't have a problem keeping my calories up...the opposite is more accurate. Even when my training volume was most demanding last year I still lifted every morning and had to eat clean or I would start adding fat.
I have read the "my first cycle" post. I thought 500mg of T would cause too much water retention.
I really like the idea of improved recovery...long runs and cycling really takes it out of you.
I have weak legs and really need to increase strength for the biking. I treat them like a spoiled child and hit them regularly and hard...but damn man...just can't get no results (well, minimal results).

I have read all the AI and PCT protocols for "BB type cycles" what would be recommended for "enhanced TRT" of 250mg per week split Mon/Thurs?

[Back In Black]

Depending on your natural test levels that 'enhanced' TRT may be pointless. It will shut down your natural test so you aren't adding to it just replacing it and then 'some'.

Maybe consider (especially at your age) getting a full hormone blood panel to see where you are naturally.

[AR's King Silabolin]

600 mg primo for 12 weeks sounds expensive.
If it was cheap its fake.
Very hard to get pharma primo these days.

[FeSBR]

Thanks BIB...My Test levels were at 528.04 ng/dl, which is in "normal" range.
Sil, yeah it was expensive...but I saved up and thought about this for a long time. That is not to say that it still can't be faked though. I did buy from a reputable UGL.

I had a hard time finding information on what I wanted specifically, a cycle to build muscle and improve athletic performance. While I was conducting my research (discounting any obvious BS) generally it appeared that 600mg per week primo was minimum/sweet spot for quality keepable gains.
I found a few people that said it was fine to run Primo alone, but as you know almost EVERYBODY recommends Test with any cycle. One of the more reasonable posts said at least run TRT because the Primo will shut you down (so I decided to add it).

Should I consider dropping Primo down to 400mg per week to keep overall mg's to 650?

[Back In Black]

Just run test only @400-500mg. With a proper ai protocol you shouldn't really suffer any 'bloat' as people like to call it.

[evanescent]

Unless you're running a long cycle, you should probably only use a C17-aa oral steroid once in the cycle (As a kick start or a plateau bust)

Meant to give a minimum of 6 weeks between using them to avoid liver damage.

Seems like a very complicated cycle. I'd stick with Test E and either Dbol/Tbol/Var as a kick. (Dbol for mass, Tbol for lean gains, Var for cutting)

And a single AI. Dex and masin could really complicate things used together.

[Mr.BB]

Thank you fellas.
I do tend to complicate things from time to time (read - always).
I did not realize anavar pumps were quite that debilitating.
Of course you know why newbs consider cycles with the above ingredients...seemed perfect to me with lean gains and strength.
I don't have a problem keeping my calories up...the opposite is more accurate. Even when my training volume was most demanding last year I still lifted every morning and had to eat clean or I would start adding fat.
I have read the "my first cycle" post. I thought 500mg of T would cause too much water retention.
I really like the idea of improved recovery...long runs and cycling really takes it out of you.
I have weak legs and really need to increase strength for the biking. I treat them like a spoiled child and hit them regularly and hard...but damn man...just can't get no results (well, minimal results).

I have read all the AI and PCT protocols for "BB type cycles" what would be recommended for "enhanced TRT" of 250mg per week split Mon/Thurs?

You dont need to increase strength for biking, what kind of training are you trying to do?? Proper cycling technique calls for spinning at a minimum 80rpm.

Sorry, but you cant have both worlds, endurance and bodybuilding are antagonistic, they cant coexist. Whatever gains you will make in the gym you will lose it on your endurance training, that is if you are doing proper endurance training.
I used to do marathons and did some training to half a ironman that had to quit due to injury, you need to be as light as you can be, even 10lbs will hurt substantially your performance. Try to train with a 10lbs bag on your back and you will se what I mean.

If you have the mindset of "whatever it takes for performance" go ahead and do 250mg test, it will increase your stamina and recovery, but be ready for possible side effects. Everything has a cost, after that 10-12 weeks cycle it will be normal for your natural testosterone to comeback lower. So make sure you weight all the risks.

Primo will be completely useless for your objective, unless you change sports to bodybuilding instead of endurance training.

[FeSBR]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I was way off base and have a better understanding now.
My BB friends kept giving me suggestions on what to use, and my reply was beginning to sound like a broken record "That won't work for me because...joints, water, bulk, loss of cardio, pump etc..." I guess I was right all along.
I know there is doping in cycling, swimming and running other than EPO.

Anyway, thanks again.

Please don't misunderstand. I will never be good at either. I just like the training. Managing diet, lifting, setting up run, bike swim work outs. And of course wanna look good too

[evanescent]

Maybe not for a first cycle, but definitely check out Deca Durabolin if endurance athletics is your thing.

[mark woods]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I was way off base and have a better understanding now.
My BB friends kept giving me suggestions on what to use, and my reply was beginning to sound like a broken record "That won't work for me because...joints, water, bulk, loss of cardio, pump etc..." I guess I was right all along.
I know there is doping in cycling, swimming and running other than EPO.

Anyway, thanks again.

Please don't misunderstand. I will never be good at either. I just like the training. Managing diet, lifting, setting up run, bike swim work outs. And of course wanna look good too

If you enjoy your training and looking good,I'd run what some said above... enhanced trt,it won't cause much in water weight but it'll be enough for you to feel the added performance and recovery your looking for...I'm doing something similar at the moment and my weight is a concern especially for cycling but if I used 500mgs + of anabolics I wouldn't be able to control my weight

[FeSBR]

What would you use during a 12 week cycle of 250mg Test C?
I would use like 6.25 aromasin ed for ai.
Would HCG be a bit much? Could you get by with clomid?

Of course standard pct after, but what about during?

[Back In Black]

I wouldn't run a cycle of only 250mg per week.

But, bloodwork after a few weeks will let you know if your ai dosage is correct. Hcg yes, any time you inject exogenous testosterone.

Clomid is for use in PCT with nolva.