Test Cypionate and Withdrawals

[bonhamsurf]

I am a 45 year old man. I have a health doctor who put me on Test Cypionate about 3 years ago. For the past 2.5-3 years I have been injecting

- Test Cypionate .4ml at 200mg/ml 2 times a week
- 1mg Armidex by mouth 2 times a week

He put me on it as naturally, my testosterone levels are very, very low. Well below the normal level, and my estrogen levels were very high.

I work out very hard 4-5 times a week, do yoga 2-3 times a week and also swim in the ocean 3-4 times a week. So I am very, very active physically. I have been a gym rat for almost 15 years straight, so I was working out and exercising very hard for many years before I started taking the Test Cypionate.

I want to stop taking the Testosterone. Even though my bloodwork now shows my testosterone is pretty normal, my last bloodwork showed

- Testosterone Total - 932 ng/dL (250-1100 is normal)
- Testosterone Free - 239.1 pg/mL (35-155 is normal, so I'm slightly high)
- T4, Free 1.4 ng/DL (0.9 - 2.1 is normal)
- TSH 1.27 uIU/mL (0.27 - 4.20 is normal)
T3, Total 102) ng/dL (80-200 is normal)

- Estrogen 102.8 pg/mL (60-190 is normal)

I have been developing some fatty areas on the sides of my chest/under my arms. My PCP and I both agree it's probably due to the Testosterone, even with the Armidex and my bloodwork showing these results.

I also want to get off of it pretty bad because of various other personal reasons.

I have been reading the forums here and have found that most of you think a taper is pointless, but for me, mentally, I feel better tapering.

Based on the amount that I have been taking for almost 3 years, should I be concerned about withdrawal symptoms?


Thank you for any help and suggestions.

[Couchlockd]

I mean you're not going to feel any kind of physical withdrawal like heroin or something

But as soon as your levels decrease to the point where you're flat you're going to feel like shit and you want to talk about gaining fat on your chest well what do you think's going to happen when estrogen is your dominant hormone and cortisol you're going to eat muscle and put on fat your body is

If your trt is down incorrectly you will not suffer any adverse health effects down the road like heart attack stroke or anything that you read about now walking around with no testosterone put you at a very high risk for heart attack stroke and who knows else what mental breakdowns penis not functioning a whole host of all kind of things you're basically going to be chemically castrated

[Obs]

welcome glad to have you.

I mean this in no rude manner...
I say this with love.

Exercise and stay on trt.
If having good natural (natural meaning in range) test levels is adding fat, attack the fat, not the hormones.

Just my opinion.

When my levels crashed and did not return it made me nearly psychotic. Almost screwed up the best thing that I have found.

Everyone is different I wish you luck.

[waltr64]

You have 3 big issues your age, the fact your T was low and the time you were own TRT.

The older you are the harder it is to restart the system after a cycle
The fact that you T was low to start with may mean there is no system to restart - did your doc try you on HCG or Clomid before Test?
Being on a testosterone supplement of over a year greatly reduces your chances of being about to restart your system.

Is your diagnosis Primary or Secondary Hoypogonadism or both?

It is unlikely that the Test and estrogen are making you fat at the levels shown in your blood work. As you age your whole system slows down slowly, the fat you see is most likely from excess calories because your T3 looks good.

Going off can cause a whole host of problems for you. First you will become agitated and irritable (grumpy old man syndrome), you may develop acne due to hormonal changes, you immune system will be trashed and over time you skin will get thin. Your chances of heart attack and stroke will go up. A 40 year old with low T is more like a 60 or 70 year old with normal T. You energy levels will take a nose dive as well. All in all if you have no system to restart or if you still have a system that could make testosterone but can't get it restarted you are going to be one miserable person. Sorry I know from experience. TRT is a pain but for some of us it is necessary. Wishing you the best. If the cost is an issue let me know and I can get you a friends information that works with some folks to mitigate the cost if your insurance is not paying.

Best of luck in what every you decide.

[bonhamsurf]

I mean..

welcome glad to have you.I say this with love....

You have 3 big issues your age, the fact your T was low and the time you were own TRT.
Best of luck in what every you decide....

Thank you for all of your replies and help. My testosterone was down before I went on the T Cyp mainly because of my drinking. I am an alcoholic and I drank away most of my testosterone before I was 30. I quit drinking in 2004 and didn't drink a single drop for 16 years. During these 16 years I was in absolutely the best shape of my life. Age 31-43. I was ripped as possible and never took a single Testosterone. My energy level and libido was incredible as well.

I made the mistake of drinking again a couple of years ago, and when I drink, I DRINK! I mean until I need medical detox. So when I got my levels checked for the first time, I was deep into my drinking. However, I quit drinking again almost a year ago, and will not make the mistake again. I do know that a large part of my low testosterone and high estrogen was from my drinking.

For the past 2 weeks I have cut my use of the Test Cyponiate in half, so I've only be using 0.2ml 200mg/ml twice a week. I am still taking the Armidex 1mg twice a week. I've actually lost some weight, and I have not lost any of my muscle. I'm continuing to push the same weights at the gym with small increases.

Any suggestions on keeping at the half dosage from my original prescriptions?
Is the likelyhood that I won't be able to restart my Testosterone if I quit really that high?

I really do want to stop, but what you guys are telling me has me thinking again.

Thank you

[almostgone]

I would at least lower the Arimidex since you lowered your T dosage. Pull labs and see where your values are in a few weeks.
There's only one way to find our if a successful restart is in the cards and that is to try it.

I would be very careful about your T levels getting low and driving you back into a behaviour you don't want to do.

Good luck!!

[almostgone]

Moving to TRT area for more responses.

[assguy22]

- Estrogen 102.8 pg/mL (60-190 is normal)

Are you fucking kiddin' me?

102.8 is extremly high. Even consider >50 very very high. How long have you been at those estrogen levels?

Use lc-ms/ms for BW and stay in 20-35 pg/mL.

[almostgone]

Are you fucking kiddin' me?

102.8 is extremly high. Even consider >50 very very high. How long have you been at those estrogen levels?

Use lc-ms/ms for BW and stay in 20-35 pg/mL.

I figured he meant pmol/L?

Edit: Basing that on the reference range values he provided. Thinking he got the units wrong?

[waltr64]

Here is a good writeup on low T

https://illimitablemen.com/2017/08/3...ement-therapy/

[assguy22]

I figured he meant pmol/L?

Edit: Basing that on the reference range values he provided. Thinking he got the units wrong?

Oops, you're right, he probably meant pmol/l.

[bonhamsurf]

Oops, you're right, he probably meant pmol/l.

Are you fucking kiddin' me?

102.8 is extremly high. Even consider >50 very very high. How long have you been at those estrogen levels?

Use lc-ms/ms for BW and stay in 20-35 pg/mL.

I just checked my lab work again and it's definitely in the pg/mL for my Estrogen Total. I definitely posted the correct units straight from my blood work/lab work. According the lab work, 60-190 is normal, so my 102.8 is in the normal range. Again, this is for Estrogen Total at pg/mL

To be completely honest, I am an alcoholic in recovery. I drank my testosterone low and estrogen high many years ago. I stopped drinking in 2004 and did not drink for 15 years. I started drinking again about 2 years ago in 2016 and quit again 1 year ago and will not ever go back to drinking again.

I do know for a medical fact that my low testosterone/high estrogen levels are a direct result from the volume of alcohol I have consumed. Think Leaving Las Vegas, no kidding/no exaggeration.

Aside from my 1 1/2 year drinking relapse that ended a year ago, I am in very, very good health. An am so again. I keep my body fat always under 12% at the highest and almost always under 10%. My diet is very, very healthy. My exercise regiment is strenuous and consistent. I am very, very proud of how I look at 45 years old. 6 pack abs, veiny arms, I'm not huge, but I'm big enough and ripped.
I'm not saying this to brag, but only to give information about where I am physically.

For the past 3 weeks I have cut the Test Cypionate in half. So for the past 3 weeks I have only been using 0.2ml at 200mg/ml twice a week. I have kept the Anastrozole/Armidex at 1mg twice a week. I actually feel and look better since I cut it in half. I have more energy, I've been able to work off most of the fatty deposits that had started on under my arms/sides of chest.

I plan to stay at this half dosage for a few more weeks and then get a full blood panel again.

I am very open to comments/suggestions about this and anything else I have said.
I'm grateful for everyone's responses and help.

[Couchlockd]

I just checked my lab work again and it's definitely in the pg/mL for my Estrogen Total. I definitely posted the correct units straight from my blood work/lab work. According the lab work, 60-190 is normal, so my 102.8 is in the normal range. Again, this is for Estrogen Total at pg/mL

To be completely honest, I am an alcoholic in recovery. I drank my testosterone low and estrogen high many years ago. I stopped drinking in 2004 and did not drink for 15 years. I started drinking again about 2 years ago in 2016 and quit again 1 year ago and will not ever go back to drinking again.

I do know for a medical fact that my low testosterone/high estrogen levels are a direct result from the volume of alcohol I have consumed. Think Leaving Las Vegas, no kidding/no exaggeration.

Aside from my 1 1/2 year drinking relapse that ended a year ago, I am in very, very good health. An am so again. I keep my body fat always under 12% at the highest and almost always under 10%. My diet is very, very healthy. My exercise regiment is strenuous and consistent. I am very, very proud of how I look at 45 years old. 6 pack abs, veiny arms, I'm not huge, but I'm big enough and ripped.
I'm not saying this to brag, but only to give information about where I am physically.

For the past 3 weeks I have cut the Test Cypionate in half. So for the past 3 weeks I have only been using 0.2ml at 200mg/ml twice a week. I have kept the Anastrozole/Armidex at 1mg twice a week. I actually feel and look better since I cut it in half. I have more energy, I've been able to work off most of the fatty deposits that had started on under my arms/sides of chest.

I plan to stay at this half dosage for a few more weeks and then get a full blood panel again.

I am very open to comments/suggestions about this and anything else I have said.
I'm grateful for everyone's responses and help.

No suggestion I can think of other than the fact that arimidex is extremely high dosed for 80mg test per week.

[bonhamsurf]

No suggestion I can think of other than the fact that arimidex is extremely high dosed for 80mg test per week.

Well, for comparison, before I started on the Testosterone/Armidex, my Estrogen was at 404.3 pg/mL. Considering 60-190 is normal, it's probably a miracle I didn't have a menstrual cycles!!

[Couchlockd]

Well, for comparison, before I started on the Testosterone/Armidex, my Estrogen was at 404.3 pg/mL. Considering 60-190 is normal, it's probably a miracle I didn't have a menstrual cycles!!

Jesus.

I dunno. You seem to be in reasonable good shape. Good bloods, keep on trucking.

60-190 scale @ 102. Is pretty good nedium dead smack mid range it seems

[bonhamsurf]

ARGHhH. I just wrote a 20 minute detailed response and this damn "SPAM Filter" thing keeps blocking me.

[bonhamsurf]

Thank you.

I also just remembered that when my Estrogen was at 404.3, I had made the one time mistake of trying aftermarket steroids. A friend got me on a cycle using T(400) and Primo. I actually had never used any testosterone before this. So I was using the T(400) and the Primabolan twice a week, not working out much on it, and this was during my short drinking relapse, so I was drinking like a fish on it. I just checked my Testosterone levels on the same lab results as when my Estrogen was 404.3 and my Testosterone Total was 5616 ng/dL (normal is 250-1100) and my Testosterone Free was 1836.7 pg/mL (normal is 35-155). So no wonder my Estrogen was so freaking high! I had WAY too much Testosterone going on. Thankfully I learned my lesson very quickly to only use what was prescribed to me by a hormone doctor.


I will be very curious to see my lab results after being on half dosage for a few weeks.

I feel like this thread has gotten off my original reason for creating it. Maybe it's turned into something more helpful. Don't quite know yet.

I originally started this thread in the Post Cycle Therapy section on purpose, as I was wanting to stop taking the Testosterone Cypionate and the Armidex and was asking about any withdrawals or other negative things I should be aware of. For some reason an Admin/Moderator moved the thread into this "Low Testosterone/Anti Aging" section.

I would like to get some more feedback on the potential dangers and/or side effects if I stop. I have quoted the helpful members who have already given me caution against going off.

So my nube question is, will I really need to keep injecting the test cypionate forever? Am I really going to be that bad off if I stop?

Again, I live a very, very, very healthy lifestyle. I never took any testosterone until the middle of 2016, so I was 43 years old then, and that was the stupid time of the T400/Primabolan/Drinking/No Exercise period that no longer exists in my life.

Prior to that, at age 42, I was very fit, very active sexually, etc.

Is my age really going to fuck me? Or have I started something with this Test Cypionate that's going to fuck me because I've been using it for 2 years?

Thanks again for everyone's help and information.

[bonhamsurf]

You have 3 big issues your age, the fact your T was low and the time you were own TRT.

welcome glad to have you.

I mean you're not going to feel any kind of physical withdrawal like heroin or something

Jesus.

I dunno. You seem to be in reasonable good shape. Good bloods, keep on trucking.

60-190 scale @ 102. Is pretty good nedium dead smack mid range it seems

Thank you.

I also just remembered that when my Estrogen was at 404.3, I had made the one time mistake of trying aftermarket steroids. A friend got me on a cycle using T(400) and Primo. I actually had never used any testosterone before this. So I was using the T(400) and the Primabolan twice a week, not working out much on it, and this was during my short drinking relapse, so I was drinking like a fish on it. I just checked my Testosterone levels on the same lab results as when my Estrogen was 404.3 and my Testosterone Total was 5616 ng/dL (normal is 250-1100) and my Testosterone Free was 1836.7 pg/mL (normal is 35-155). So no wonder my Estrogen was so freaking high! I had WAY too much Testosterone going on. Thankfully I learned my lesson very quickly to only use what was prescribed to me by a hormone doctor.


I will be very curious to see my lab results after being on half dosage for a few weeks.

I feel like this thread has gotten off my original reason for creating it. Maybe it's turned into something more helpful. Don't quite know yet.

I originally started this thread in the Post Cycle Therapy section on purpose, as I was wanting to stop taking the Testosterone Cypionate and the Armidex and was asking about any withdrawals or other negative things I should be aware of. For some reason an Admin/Moderator moved the thread into this "Low Testosterone/Anti Aging" section.

I would like to get some more feedback on the potential dangers and/or side effects if I stop. I have quoted the helpful members who have already given me caution against going off.

So my nube question is, will I really need to keep injecting the test cypionate forever? Am I really going to be that bad off if I stop?

Again, I live a very, very, very healthy lifestyle. I never took any testosterone until the middle of 2016, so I was 43 years old then, and that was the stupid time of the T400/Primabolan/Drinking/Little Exercise period that no longer exists in my life.

Prior to that, at age 42, I was very fit, very active sexually, etc.

Is my age really going to fuck me? Or have I started something with this Test Cypionate that's going to fuck me because I've been using it for 2 years?

Thanks again for everyone's help and information.

[Couchlockd]

Thank you.

I also just remembered that when my Estrogen was at 404.3, I had made the one time mistake of trying aftermarket steroids. A friend got me on a cycle using T(400) and Primo. I actually had never used any testosterone before this. So I was using the T(400) and the Primabolan twice a week, not working out much on it, and this was during my short drinking relapse, so I was drinking like a fish on it. I just checked my Testosterone levels on the same lab results as when my Estrogen was 404.3 and my Testosterone Total was 5616 ng/dL (normal is 250-1100) and my Testosterone Free was 1836.7 pg/mL (normal is 35-155). So no wonder my Estrogen was so freaking high! I had WAY too much Testosterone going on. Thankfully I learned my lesson very quickly to only use what was prescribed to me by a hormone doctor.


I will be very curious to see my lab results after being on half dosage for a few weeks.

I feel like this thread has gotten off my original reason for creating it. Maybe it's turned into something more helpful. Don't quite know yet.

I originally started this thread in the Post Cycle Therapy section on purpose, as I was wanting to stop taking the Testosterone Cypionate and the Armidex and was asking about any withdrawals or other negative things I should be aware of. For some reason an Admin/Moderator moved the thread into this "Low Testosterone/Anti Aging" section.

I would like to get some more feedback on the potential dangers and/or side effects if I stop. I have quoted the helpful members who have already given me caution against going off.

So my nube question is, will I really need to keep injecting the test cypionate forever? Am I really going to be that bad off if I stop?

Again, I live a very, very, very healthy lifestyle. I never took any testosterone until the middle of 2016, so I was 43 years old then, and that was the stupid time of the T400/Primabolan/Drinking/Little Exercise period that no longer exists in my life.

Prior to that, at age 42, I was very fit, very active sexually, etc.

Is my age really going to fuck me? Or have I started something with this Test Cypionate that's going to fuck me because I've been using it for 2 years?

Thanks again for everyone's help and information.

More than likely, yes you will need it forever, if you want healthy testosterone levels.

But try a power pct.

Google "scallys power PCT"

[bonhamsurf]

Here is a good writeup on low T

https://illimitablemen.com/2017/08/3...ement-therapy/

Thank you for this. I read it thoroughly and it makes a lot of sense. I went to college to be a Dr. Have 6+ years of Med School education/experience. Although sometimes I don't know if it's a good or bad thing!

[bonhamsurf]

More than likely, yes you will need it forever, if you want healthy testosterone levels.

But try a power pct.

Google "scallys power PCT"

Thank you. I'm going to continue doing research as well as listening to the members' experiences on this forum before stopping.