Prohormone help

I know some people here dislike prohormones, but in light of the difficulty in obtaining real gear vs the availablity of legal prohormones, I have a couple questions regarding them and their use. Please limit responses to past experience, helpful critiques, product suggestion and generally helpful responses. One, does anyone have any product recomendation? I am not trying to pack on a ton of mass. Lean muscle will be preferable, 10 to 15 lbs of muscle would be ideal, 5 to 10 lbs of fat if that what it takes, can always lose it later. How permanent are gains with a PCT and continued workout? http://store.bodybuildingfactory.com...0-sus-500.html this was one that I was looking at, as was this http://store.bodybuildingfactory.com...-halotest.html. Secondly, is something like this sufficient for a Post cycle? http://store.bodybuildingfactory.com...e-formula.html I have read that milk thistle is a good idea when taking a prohormone just to protect the liver a little bit. So, is milk thistle + one of the above (recomendations please) and that post cycle good enough? Should I be taking a mass gainer as well while taking a prohormone? Coming off this cycle, would it be wise/safe to take clen to help strip away the excess fat put on? Just as background:
1) never done any type of prohormone/steroid
2) 21 yrs old, 10% B.F. 165 lbs, 5'11
3) Rough diet outline, eggs+wheat toast =>, protein shake, => tuna sandwich => shake, => whole wheat pasta=> shake=> chicken/steak/beef=> shake before bed.
4) workout consists of lifting, cardio, fight training

i will recommend superdrol or havoc.

Imo prohormones are virtually useless. At your weight a cycle of any kind is not recommended, diet is key to packing on the muscle mass and should be easierly obtainable at your weight. How long have you been working out for? And how long have you been really trying hard to put on mass?

Why at my weight is any type of cycle not recommended? I had friend use powerdrol who weighed 135 and in 2 months was up to 145, which was why I was interested in a prohormone. He didn't really use a postcycle though, and within 2 months was back at 135. As for working out, on and off for 5 years, but, seriously for the last 1 and half. I used to stay light to fight, but now I have no intention of fighting for a couple months and would like to pack on some muscle while I am waiting around. For two months I tried eating a "bulking diet" and while I did put on some muscle, it was not as much as I had expected or hoped, and I put on too much fat hence the desire for something extra. As for putting on "mass" I'm not looking to go up in weight that much. I don't want to be 195 at 18% B.F. I want to be around 175-180 at the same 10% which is why I am leary of just using a weight gainer and eating more. I would like to use something for 2 months, put on some lean muscle, and probably some fat, then go back to my usual routine to strip the gained chub while keeping the muscle. Act as if I had my mind made up to use something, and just need suggestions on the best product to use and the best/safest way to do it.

How do you feel about havoc, halotest, sus500?

I disagree that prohormones are useless. I have managed to put on pretty good size and body weight with prohormones. If you get the right stuff, I think that you will fair pretty good. I have taken Sustevol, OmniVol, and I am starting Superdrol Next week. I think that prohormones are good to start out on and see how your body reacts to supplementing.

I am now ready to go farther and the superdrol will be used to kickstart my first cycle of test.

I would definitely consider getting the proper supplements and vitamins to take along side the prohormones since they are more liver toxic and can affect cholestrol levels and stuff. Do a search on superdrol and you will see that their are several other pills that are suggested to take with the superdrol.

i like havoc for bulking.
halotest, thats like halodrol, if so thats used for cutting.
superdrol, excellent for bulking.

Example of a Superdrol Cycle - (values given are every day - ed)

3-5 days prior to cycle (supplement loading):

* 1000mg Milk Thistle
* 1200mg RYR
* 60mg CoQ10
* 3g Taurine

Week 1:

* 20mg Superdrol, split doses
* Supplement stack*

Week 2:

* 20mg Superdrol, split doses
* Supplement stack*

Week 3:

* 20mg Superdrol, split doses
* Supplement stack*

Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

Either:

Rebound XT/ATD PCT week 1:

* 75mg Rebound XT (3 caps 1 in morning, 2 in evening taken with 10g of fat ideally)
* Supplement Stack*

Rebound XT/ATD PCT week 2:

* 50mg Rebound XT (1 cap in morning, 1 in evening, with 10g fat)

Rebound XT/ATD PCT week 3:

* 25mg Rebound XT (1 cap in evening, with fat)

Or:

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) PCT Day 1:

* 60mg Tamoxifen (taken all at once when convenient)
* Supplement stack*

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) PCT Days 2-11:

* 40mg Tamoxifen (taken all at once when convenient)
* Supplement stack* (up to days 5-7)

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) PCT Days 12-21:

* 20mg Tamoxifen

Optional extra: Add Tribulus throughout PCT.

*Supplement stack:

* 1000mg Milk Thistle
* 1200mg RYR
* 60mg CoQ10
* 5g Taurine

So would havoc at 3 pills a day for 30 days with PCT after, then a halotest cycle followed by a PCT be a solid idea?

Wow, N.E.R.D thanks a bunch man, that's exactly what I was looking for, an idiots guide to Prohormones. Thanks

well keep in mind that havoc and halo are methylated.
one of the best cycles with prohormones i ever did was phera-plex and superdrol, i gained 25 pounds. but you have to eat like a mofo to keep the gains.

How about following with halotest to help the cutting? Would I finish Superdrol and the PCT then the halotest followed by another PCT? Would I use the same PCT? The Rebound you suggested, would that work for both cycles?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

Wow, N.E.R.D thanks a bunch man, that's exactly what I was looking for, an idiots guide to Prohormones. Thanks

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No problem bro. And good luck. Lets us know your progress if you start a cycle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

How about following with halotest to help the cutting? Would I finish Superdrol and the PCT then the halotest followed by another PCT? Would I use the same PCT? The Rebound you suggested, would that work for both cycles?

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Id add clen in my pct then decide from there where im up to whether you need to cut as your bf% isnt high at the moment and a good diet in your cycle your bf% might not raise much at all.

RYR? Is that red yeast rice?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

RYR? Is that red yeast rice?

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yes.

I am putting together my shopping cart now, N*E*R*D, you are the man, can't thank you enough for putting me in the right direction, will let you know how it worked out for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

I am putting together my shopping cart now, N*E*R*D, you are the man, can't thank you enough for putting me in the right direction, will let you know how it worked out for me.

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Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n*e*r*d

example of a superdrol cycle - (values given are every day - ed)

3-5 days prior to cycle (supplement loading):

* 1000mg milk thistle
* 1200mg ryr
* 60mg coq10
* 3g taurine

week 1:

* 20mg superdrol, split doses
* supplement stack*

week 2:

* 20mg superdrol, split doses
* supplement stack*

week 3:

* 20mg superdrol, split doses
* supplement stack*

post cycle therapy (pct)

either:

Rebound xt/atd pct week 1:

* 75mg rebound xt (3 caps 1 in morning, 2 in evening taken with 10g of fat ideally)
* supplement stack*

rebound xt/atd pct week 2:

* 50mg rebound xt (1 cap in morning, 1 in evening, with 10g fat)

rebound xt/atd pct week 3:

* 25mg rebound xt (1 cap in evening, with fat)

or:

Nolvadex (tamoxifen) pct day 1:

* 60mg tamoxifen (taken all at once when convenient)
* supplement stack*

nolvadex (tamoxifen) pct days 2-11:

* 40mg tamoxifen (taken all at once when convenient)
* supplement stack* (up to days 5-7)

nolvadex (tamoxifen) pct days 12-21:

* 20mg tamoxifen

optional extra: Add tribulus throughout pct.

*supplement stack:

* 1000mg milk thistle
* 1200mg ryr
* 60mg coq10
* 5g taurine

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hey mr. Ex-jokers, you copy pasted this from another website huh
one that describes how superdrol is a designer steroid and so on

One more question, dumb as it is, I have to ask, the Novedex is sold in 60 mg pills? How do I take 40/20 mgs? Just break them?

Also, mass gainer? Good idea to maximize results? Again, lean muscle is the goal, but I don't want to waste the Superdrol by not taking in enough calories to reach it's potential. One shake pre workout?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

also, mass gainer? Good idea to maximize results? Again, lean muscle is the goal, but i don't want to waste the superdrol by not taking in enough calories to reach it's potential. One shake pre workout?

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dude, in my opinion if you buy all that stuff it will be expensive and a waste of money. I dont even use all that much when i do steroids. Just keep it simple buy the superdrol and something for pct. Thats it.

http://forums.steroid.com/read-here-first/113010-unoffical-how-bulk-thread-sample-diet.html


Diet

And the weight gainer

SD



http://forums.steroid.com/supplements/302325-everything-anything-about-superdrol-sd-phera-plex.html

"Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate." <===== That is a quote from another website, can someone shed some light on the difference between the them?!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stallion_1

hey mr. Ex-jokers, you copy pasted this from another website huh
one that describes how superdrol is a designer steroid and so on

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Yes. You didnt think i wrote that all out did ya?:aaGreen22

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

"Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate." <===== That is a quote from another website, can someone shed some light on the difference between the them?!?

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Nolvadex and tamoxifen citrate is the same thing.

Novedex XT is a junk PCT/Test Booster that came out recently. imo, very useless. I would like to see you use 6oxo if you can't get your hands on real Nolva. That is your next best bet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

"Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate." <===== That is a quote from another website, can someone shed some light on the difference between the them?!?

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Click the blue word that says nolva or tamoxifen in some of these posts. That is what you need.

You don't eat much.Personally, I'd recommend double it and you will get all you're pounds your currently aiming for. Diet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noclue

"Nolvadex is therefore ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for an superdrolcycle. Please note its Nolvadex not novedex or nolvedex. Please look for Tamoxifen Citrate." <===== That is a quote from another website, can someone shed some light on the difference between the them?!?

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The advice is good but not the best. The point is you need prescription grade PCT not over the counter junk.

Superdrol is a progestin which if nolva is used can cause or make existing gyno worse. Clomid would be a much better choice.

Look at the link that BigSexy gave you. Thats how a cycle of superdrol or really any designer steroid/prohormone should be run. Now granted some designer products are not methylated but adding milk thistle can't hurt. Just know your products and do research on the actual chemical you are buying