3 Useless supps you are still buying!

[matri.x]

I am not sure if anyone is still buying tribulus and fake HGH. But last one is definitely a surprise -_-#

https://nizarscience.blogspot.com/20...are-still.html

Reminder: No flame please I didn't say it myself, The Doctors posted this on PubMed and NCBI and I just pasted!!

[Ashop]

Not surprised at all by those 3. I know I would never buy them.

[kelkel]

Not surprised at all by those 3. I know I would never buy them.

Roger that.

[DHew]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18974721/

Same site, but a positive outcome on BCAA affecting muscular recovery. There are far too many positive peer reviewed studies on BCAA for me to give up hope from one article posting a few weird studies.

[austinite]

Never used them for a reason. I could list 100 more useless ones.

[MuscleScience]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18974721/

Same site, but a positive outcome on BCAA affecting muscular recovery. There are far too many positive peer reviewed studies on BCAA for me to give up hope from one article posting a few weird studies.

I think he meant spending 50 bucks on BCAA's on their own. Especially if your already using whey protein.

[almostgone]

Never used them for a reason. I could list 100 more useless ones.

Austinite! Howdy!

[DHew]

Spending 50 bucks on their own? Agreed, no thanks.

[Quester]

Just so I'm clear, I don't need to supplement with BCAA's anymore?

[kelkel]

Just so I'm clear, I don't need to supplement with BCAA's anymore?

Correct.

[Quester]

Cool.
Thanks for the post. I was worried about trying to get my BCAA's in while maintaining an empty stomach for my GHRH/GHRP administration.

[matri.x]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18974721/

Same site, but a positive outcome on BCAA affecting muscular recovery. There are far too many positive peer reviewed studies on BCAA for me to give up hope from one article posting a few weird studies.

Tell us 3 everyday . By the way, Do you have a YT channel?

[MuscleScience]

Cool.
Thanks for the post. I was worried about trying to get my BCAA's in while maintaining an empty stomach for my GHRH/GHRP administration.

But still ingest them. Make sure your whey supplement has a good BCAA profile. Just don't waste money on a small ass expensive bottle of BCAA's on their own. Plus I think they are best devlivered with other Aminos.

[prenes]

the only time to sup BCAA is if you are subcaloric and need to reach protein goals. very few ever need to do this on a long term basis.

[DocToxin8]

I'm gonna keep using my BCAAs now and then.

I like to make this little tonic;

5grams leucine
5g isoleucine/valine
3g taurine
5-7g creatine monohydrate
5-10g glutamine
3g beta alanine
500mg theanine
500mg NAC
500mg carnitine

And a protein shake with added oatmeal and I'm good.
(I don't take these supps just for muscle growth)

[Gallowmere]

the only time to sup BCAA is if you are subcaloric and need to reach protein goals. very few ever need to do this on a long term basis.

Even then, they are pretty useless. BCAAs do almost nothing in the absence of the other EAAs.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-017-0184-9

To quote the conclusion: A physiologically-significant increase in the rate of muscle protein synthesis requires adequate availability of all amino acid precursors. The source of EAAs for muscle protein synthesis in the post-absorptive state is the free intracellular pool. Intracellular free EAAs that are available for incorporation into protein are derived from muscle protein breakdown. Under normal conditions about 70% of EAAs released by muscle protein breakdown are reincorporated into muscle protein. The efficiency of reincorporation of EAAs from protein breakdown back into muscle protein can only be increased to a limited extent. For this fundamental reason, a dietary supplement of BCAAs alone cannot support an increased rate of muscle protein synthesis. The availability of the other EAAs will rapidly become rate limiting for accelerated protein synthesis. Consistent with this perspective, the few studies in human subjects have reported decreases, rather than increases, in muscle protein synthesis after intake of BCAAs. We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.

TL;DR- suck it up and use whey isolate.

Besides, contrary to it's absence on the labels, BCAAs do contain calories, as every amino acid has a caloric value per gram, some higher than others.

[DocToxin8]

Wait- do you people take BCAAs without protein?

The studies I've based my BCAA intake on pretty much leads me to this conclusion;

Leucine (in doses of 7grams and up) activate mTOR
(But without adequate EAAs mTOR signaling is suppressed, or when ATP is low, etc)

During a workout I'll drink BCAAs with glutamine,
I still have a fairly high intracellular amino acid pool at this point due to food.

After workout I'll take my BCAA with a protein drink.
The leucine is there to boost the effects of the protein drink,
it's not there to replace it.

When eating as many meals as I do, there's always enough protein however.

There's also been some studies on rats, leucine and fat loss.

But anyway, intresting stuff.
Ill wait for some more studies to come along and read up.

[DocToxin8]

The study linked actually proved the point that BCAAs DOES stimulate protein synthesis when ingested with EAAs.
(Proved is very wrong to say in science though, I mean, supported)

That's great news!
Just use your BCAAs the correct way and you'll reap some benefit it seems.

[Gallowmere]

The study linked actually proved the point that BCAAs DOES stimulate protein synthesis when ingested with EAAs.
(Proved is very wrong to say in science though, I mean, supported)

That's great news!
Just use your BCAAs the correct way and you'll reap some benefit it seems.

The issue is that in any high quality (read: animal) protein source, your EAA pool will be diminished long before the leucine threshold induced MPS response is gone. Last I recall reading, the only time BCAAs are actually useful, is when people are using something like soy protein, which has a pretty crap leucine amount compared to meats and dairy proteins.

ETA: one issue with these studies, is that they do assume "normal" and "average" populations. A good chunk of the people here likely have gear induced metabolic variances outside of "normal". I'd love to see a study involving BCAAs on such a population, but good luck with that.

[DocToxin8]

The issue is that in any high quality (read: animal) protein source, your EAA pool will be diminished long before the leucine threshold induced MPS response is gone. Last I recall reading, the only time BCAAs are actually useful, is when people are using something like soy protein, which has a pretty crap leucine amount compared to meats and dairy proteins.

ETA: one issue with these studies, is that they do assume "normal" and "average" populations. A good chunk of the people here likely have gear induced metabolic variances outside of "normal". I'd love to see a study involving BCAAs on such a population, but good luck with that.

Good points!
And you're right, with whey there's plenty of BCAAs f.ex.
BUT, I'm still not convinced there isn't an extra punch in high BCAA levels by activating transcription factors when there is enough EAAs and ATP present.

Also, very good point about muscles perhaps not reacting quite the same in an chemically enhanced athlete, or even one that just trains a lot.

[matri.x]

they are pretty useless. BCAAs do almost nothing in the absence of the other EAAs.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-017-0184-9


TL;DR- suck it up and use whey isolate.

Absolutely right!

[tarmyg]

I supplement with EAA. Never saw any use/benefit in using BCAA except for the opposite, slow down of fat loss when I was in a caloric deficit.

[DocToxin8]

Any BCAA supplement (at least when I make one),
will also contain glutamine. (Not an essential aa but a common one and useful)
Glutamine is great for just rehydration and the immune system.

sulfur containing amino acid homocysteine can be recycled to methione.
I also supplement with NAC, which means my cysteine levels are high.

The aromatic amino acids tyrosine and phenylalanine can interchange.
I often use tyrosine.

Arginine, ornithine and citrulline can interchange.
Good news.

We're missing tryptophan (also aromatic, but different from the the,phe)
and lysin plus histidine.

I see that in my case I supplement with most of the EAAs anyway,
But more importantly; I eat protein regularly.
I seldom would have "low levels", and at those times I certainly wouldn't use BCAA.

I've always viewed BCAAs as a button to "punch" when nutrient status is high.
And thus hopefully stimulate protein synthesis.

I would love to see a real study on athetes using it in that manner.
And I think I have (but they should be more clear),
where people ingested BCAAs with protein shakes.
And they found that BCAAs indeed was positive.

Some new reasearch on this would be great.
See to what degree, in any, an drink with EAAs plus a massive 20g punch of BCAAs would perform. Amino acid intake total would probably be around 50grams, so one should use "kinder" versions of the amino acids were possible.
Protein should also be tried again. And with/Wirhout carbs. Same with fats.

... my thoughts wandered a bit here.