Need Some Chest Help Please

**DGenRit** · 03-15-2016, 08:13 PM

Age: 48
Weight: 215
Height: 5'11"
BF: 7-8% (up from 5.5% after last cycle)
Last Cycle: completed 16 week cycle early January
Next Cycle: planned for mid-April or May depending on BW
Picture: that's me in the avatar

I completed a very strong transformation over the last 11 months adding a cycle at the end of the transformation. I made great progress but feel that my chest could use a boost - especially my lower chest. Because I was heavier for several years, I have a little loose skin under my nipples - not too much but it's certainly not as tight as my arms, abs, legs. I would like to fill my chest in with lean muscle - especially lower chest.

I currently train each body part twice every 7-8 days. I train hard with workouts lasting 70-75 minutes and 30-60 seconds rest between sets. I also change up my workouts every 8 weeks or so to keep the muscle confusion going.

I train heavy (100 pound dumbbell presses) at times maxing out at 8 reps and a little lighter on other days (75 pound Dumbbells) - maxing out at 12 reps. I typically do 12-16 sets of chest at 8-12 reps. I then move on to a secondary muscle group and do 12-16 sets there.

My diet is super clean (carbs: 250 Fat: 70 Protein: 225)

What can I do to get a boost on my chest workouts?

Should I add an additional day of chest?
Should I add more sets?
Should I do chest by itself with no other muscle group?
Anything else?

If like to have a solid plan to capitalize on my next cycle.

Thanks for any advice.

**DGenRit** · 03-17-2016, 08:39 AM

anyone?

**73rr** · 03-17-2016, 08:51 AM

I only know what I have been told in a thread I asked along time ago. It's called "pick on my chest" if u want to read though it. Alot of good info I got out of it.

Your way more developed then me so it's hard to give u advice! What I got out ofy thread is pre exhausting my chest with 2 sets of flies before the work out really begins.

I do them on cable, pulling the weight up as if I was doing a incline motion do to feeling like I'm missing my upper chest.
Good luck and I hope this helps

**NACH3** · 03-17-2016, 01:36 PM

Make sure your hitting as many different angles as possible! I do lots of flys(DBs) then use cables for accessory lifts for shaping(10-15 rep range w/accessory lifts) then I stick to mostly incline work(even my flat is on a slight incline now)...

I think just attacking your chest(hard heavy & intense) and keeping rest periods short will do great things... Then change it up next time around - flip flop sequence of starting presses or pre-exhausting your pressing with flys first(heavy and proper form)

Try starting the cables low bringing them up to chest level(or a little higher)& holding that peak contraction for 1-5sec and slowly utilize your eccentric part of the lift(negative)

**DGenRit** · 03-17-2016, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Make sure your hitting as many different angles as possible! I do lots of flys(DBs) then use cables for accessory lifts for shaping(10-15 rep range w/accessory lifts) then I stick to mostly incline work(even my flat is on a slight incline now)...

I think just attacking your chest(hard heavy & intense) and keeping rest periods short will do great things... Then change it up next time around - flip flop sequence of starting presses or pre-exhausting your pressing with flys first(heavy and proper form)

Try starting the cables low bringing them up to chest level(or a little higher)& holding that peak contraction for 1-5sec and slowly utilize your eccentric part of the lift(negative)

Thanks Nach. I'll try your suggestions. I think the emphasis on DB Flys makes sense as well as your other suggestions.

**Bio-Active** · 03-17-2016, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Thanks Nach. I'll try your suggestions. I think the emphasis on DB Flys makes sense as well as your other suggestions.

doing heavy db flies are what built my chest

**NEMESIS RR** · 03-17-2016, 10:25 PM

Start with a really good warmup of the shoulders and elbow. You don't want them to be limiting. Then do 5 sets of flys. If doing dumbbell flys don't go all the way to the top as to relieve tension. Now start your workout but leave your ego at the door. Perfect form so that it is your chest. Keep the blood in there with only 60 to 75 second rest period.

**Mp859** · 03-17-2016, 11:52 PM

I always hit lagging body parts at least twice a week. One day hit it from one angle and the next time you train hit it from another.

Sample day:
Incline barbell(heavy)
Incline dumbbell(heavy)
Incline hammer strength(squeeze)

Next session:
Flat/smith barbell (heavy)
Dumbbell flyes(heavy)
Cable flyes(squeeze)
Pec deck(squeeze)

Just an idea. I'm constantly changing things up though and go a lot by feel.

**NACH3** · 03-18-2016, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by NEMESIS RR

Start with a really good warmup of the shoulders and elbow. You don't want them to be limiting. Then do 5 sets of flys. If doing dumbbell flys don't go all the way to the top as to relieve tension. Now start your workout but leave your ego at the door. Perfect form so that it is your chest. Keep the blood in there with only 60 to 75 second rest period.

I'd keep intensity higher than that between sets snd rest periods shorter

**DGenRit** · 03-18-2016, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

I'd keep intensity higher than that between sets snd rest periods shorter

What rest time are you suggesting? And do I keep that same rest on exercises after flies as well? Or just for flies? I typically do 60 secs rest now. When going extra heavy, maybe 90.

**NACH3** · 03-18-2016, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

What rest time are you suggesting? And do I keep that same rest on exercises after flies as well? Or just for flies? I typically do 60 secs rest now. When going extra heavy, maybe 90.

Well once we reach sticking points and genetic limitations(or we'd all be 450 @ 6%) then the only way to grow is by stressing the body more... This can only mean 3 things really - stay lifting heavy(force growth - overload), keep intensity as high as possible(supersets tri sets drop sets RPs), and with HIT there is no break once you start that working set you go right into your drop sets and RPs forced reps into negatives etc) - I'll rest 1min between ex's(not sets)... So once my working set starts there is no rest until my drops RPs or forced reps into negatives are finished then 1min Max in between exercises

Try starting with flys to shock your chest(heavy but very controlled) form is key... Taje those flys to failure... Then use that same weight(or less ir more depending on you) for pressing... So your Supersetting flys straight into presses(it's a ore-exhaust method of HIT! Got me past some major sticking points too!

**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**
Get in here and start reading you'll be amazed!

**novastepp** · 03-18-2016, 11:38 AM

Are you eating enough to be growing muscle? You're eating only 2500 cals a day. I know you want to stay lean, but those calories aren't meant for a guy your size.

When you mention using the DBs for 10. Is that 10th rep completed? Do you attempt an 11th, but fail to complete the rep? start doing that if you aren't. Hold that glorious failure as long as possible.

Are you doing any kind of negative training? That's an entire part of the workout that you may be missing.

You are a big, solid guy. Eat like one and train like one! You have made incredible progress I'm sure because the results are great. Time to take it up a notch.

**DGenRit** · 03-18-2016, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Well once we reach sticking points and genetic limitations(or we'd all be 450 @ 6%) then the only way to grow is by stressing the body more... This can only mean 3 things really - stay lifting heavy(force growth - overload), keep intensity as high as possible(supersets tri sets drop sets RPs), and with HIT there is no break once you start that working set you go right into your drop sets and RPs forced reps into negatives etc) - I'll rest 1min between ex's(not sets)... So once my working set starts there is no rest until my drops RPs or forced reps into negatives are finished then 1min Max in between exercises

Try starting with flys to shock your chest(heavy but very controlled) form is key... Taje those flys to failure... Then use that same weight(or less ir more depending on you) for pressing... So your Supersetting flys straight into presses(it's a ore-exhaust method of HIT! Got me past some major sticking points too!

**Marcus's HIT Dungeon**
Get in here and start reading you'll be amazed!

You're a beast Nach. Thanks.

**DGenRit** · 03-18-2016, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

Are you eating enough to be growing muscle? You're eating only 2500 cals a day. I know you want to stay lean, but those calories aren't meant for a guy your size.

When you mention using the DBs for 10. Is that 10th rep completed? Do you attempt an 11th, but fail to complete the rep? start doing that if you aren't. Hold that glorious failure as long as possible.

Are you doing any kind of negative training? That's an entire part of the workout that you may be missing.

You are a big, solid guy. Eat like one and train like one! You have made incredible progress I'm sure because the results are great. Time to take it up a notch.

Thanks for the advice - I'm no longer in 2500 calories - eating about 3000-3500 the last 4-6 weeks. My training can definitely use a boost and I will apply some of what I've learned on his thread. I do train hard and mix it up and do take it to failure and use super sets, but I'm probably leaving a little in the tank during my workouts as of late. Going to refocus and empty the tank. Thanks again guys!

**NACH3** · 03-18-2016, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

You're a beast Nach. Thanks.

Thx brother... AND SO ARE YOU!! Novastepp brought on some great advice! Eat BIG! You've got things dialed in so by implementing some of these protocols could be the difference and change up you need!
What is growth?? It's stressing the body in ways its not used to! More stress = more growth... Intensity and training to true posituvr failure is key(check out Marcus' dungeon) it's fvking great! Motivation and inspiration plus anything else you'd think of

hope to see you in there!

**Ashop** · 03-18-2016, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

doing heavy db flies are what built my chest

I like doing CHEST pre exhaust,,,DB flyes or Pec Dec followed by Incline DB Bench press or Hammer Strength uni lateral chest press.

**Euroholic** · 03-22-2016, 03:17 AM

Up your intensity. You should be able to get everything done in less then 40minutes.

Are your tris failing before your chest?
Superset flys into presses. Drop sets/rest pause etc etc.

**MSphysique** · 03-31-2016, 04:04 AM

Have you tried adding some supersets in? I really like supersetting presses with flys once i have got my heavy flat/incline barbell presses completed.

Supersetting with flys are a great way to add that extra bit of volume and intensity.

**DGenRit** · 04-01-2016, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

Up your intensity. You should be able to get everything done in less then 40minutes.

Are your tris failing before your chest?
Superset flys into presses. Drop sets/rest pause etc etc.

My tris are not failing but I have bad shoulders. They are strong on presses and don't really give out but they do hinder my flys. Restricts how heavy I can go on flys. I do them - but can't get much more than 35 pounds on strict wide flys where I'm pressing 100 pound DBs for 8-10 strict slow reps.

**bartman314** · 04-01-2016, 06:30 PM

a second vote for HIT style training. it allowed me to shorten my workout and build faster. i'm 53, 6'3" 225 and that's me in my avatar. hat's off to you though - you're looking great!

give marcus diary a read - it was the working set, double drop 1, double drop 2 that gave me a the step forward.

**DGenRit** · 04-01-2016, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by bartman314

a second vote for HIT style training. it allowed me to shorten my workout and build faster. i'm 53, 6'3" 225 and that's me in my avatar. hat's off to you though - you're looking great!

give marcus diary a read - it was the working set, double drop 1, double drop 2 that gave me a the step forward.

Thanks! What exactly is a "working set, double drop 1, double drop 2"? I know what a drop set is but not sure about a double drop 1 and a double drop 2? Do you mind walking me through it?

**bartman314** · 04-01-2016, 07:21 PM

sure thing.

working set is a first set at or near max weight for 6-12 reps just touching positive failure.

rest til breathing is somewhat above normal (not panting, but not normal either), which is ~45-90 seconds for me depending on exercise (really size of the muscle)

double drop set 1 for me is a first set of 6-10 reps to true positive failure, an immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure, and a final immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure

rest til breathing is somewhat above normal

double drop set 2 is a first set of 6-10 reps to true positive failure, an immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure, and a final immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure

i'm usually dripping sweat after my second exercise with this type of workout. i currently don't have a workout partner so i don't to negatives or assisted reps. if i did have a partner, i'd sprinkle assisted reps into the mix. if you're in boston or the bay area, let me know and we'll workout!

oh... my current chest workout using this type of sequence is:

flat barbell bench
decline barbell bench
incline machine (i have bad shoulders too and can't do incline barbell bench)
pec dec

with warm ups... i'm done with chest in 45 minutes. and i'm always sore the next day. :-)

**DGenRit** · 04-02-2016, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by bartman314

sure thing.

working set is a first set at or near max weight for 6-12 reps just touching positive failure.

rest til breathing is somewhat above normal (not panting, but not normal either), which is ~45-90 seconds for me depending on exercise (really size of the muscle)

double drop set 1 for me is a first set of 6-10 reps to true positive failure, an immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure, and a final immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure

rest til breathing is somewhat above normal

double drop set 2 is a first set of 6-10 reps to true positive failure, an immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure, and a final immediate drop in weight of about 20% for 6-8 reps to true positive failure

i'm usually dripping sweat after my second exercise with this type of workout. i currently don't have a workout partner so i don't to negatives or assisted reps. if i did have a partner, i'd sprinkle assisted reps into the mix. if you're in boston or the bay area, let me know and we'll workout!

oh... my current chest workout using this type of sequence is:

flat barbell bench
decline barbell bench
incline machine (i have bad shoulders too and can't do incline barbell bench)
pec dec

with warm ups... i'm done with chest in 45 minutes. and i'm always sore the next day. :-)

I like it! I'm going to do this on my next chest day and see how I feel. I also train alone most of the time. I really appreciate you taking the time to spell this out for me. If I'm ever in Boston, I'll look you up for sure.

**dcycles** · 04-22-2016, 01:33 PM

Have you ever done a rest pause set? There is a few different ideas about what this is but for me I take the weight I can usually do for 8 reps.. I do the set.. Set the weight down for a strict 15 seconds and repeat two times. Usually I will do this once and finish with a light cool down set and then finish with my accessory work like dumbell press/fly/ and or dips.. It sounds simple but the amount of muscle fibers I stimulate doing this is amazing. It has helped me get out of some plateaus. Maybe you already know about this but figured I would throw it out there.