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Thread: MAN WTF. Super set..??

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    MAN WTF. Super set..??

    Ok so I was on YouTube looking up successful fellas in bodybuilding and training specifically super sets and drop set methods and thing similar in intensity.

    This dude. Who has a twin brother that usussly review various supplements. No asnwer question was answering a question and explained what a "super set" is.

    Now when I do my weight training it's HIT with HIIT style hybrid of both. High volume with power reps (6-8)'roughly.

    My idea of what a SUPER SET is ...is for example I do a set of wide grip pull ups. As soon as I finish that set I would take no break and go right into another move that works the sameness muscle group. Such as a cable lag pulldown. Wether I do a triple super set. For example .wide grip pull ups. Right to lat pulldown then right into bent over roww with elbows up and out to hit upper outer lat. etc. or chest supported wide grip rows then right into super wide grip cable rows then right into shrugs for middle traps where ur on the cable row machine and arms stretched straight in front of you and u shrug back for isolation ...

    Whatever the fuck you wanna do. Be creative.

    But this dude said that. Super set for example is doing the opposite muscle. So say your doing curls. Then right when u finish that set go right into tricep extension. ..I believe that isn't called something else besides super sets. ...
    If not then I guess I created my own HIT method to go with triple drop sets. ..lol.

    That's what I mean. I hear so much different bullshit from people. It's like wtf ..Do YOU EVEN LIFT BRO !!!lol

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    Yeah that doesn't sound right... Who does more than one group in a single workout? That's rule number one no no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Yeah that doesn't sound right... Who does more than one group in a single workout? That's rule number one no no.
    I mean I heard of the method. Such as chest and back for a super pump. And since doing. Chest u do utilize back muscle. I heard of power lifters imagining that they are ripping the bar apart to the sides when bench pressing with barbell which increases the focus on the aid of the back muscle and the role they play in the bench press.

    And the bicep curls and then tricep extensions to super pump the arm up with blood. I mean I have an arm day which I do bicep and tricep. But I mainly do biceps,first cuz if I do triceps first. I'm already so burnt that I slack off my biceps. I hate doing biceps. It's mainly a Glamor muscle I think. Lol

    But yeah. I thought super set was what I do. Not that bullshit lol
    Last edited by Marsoc; 10-20-2016 at 09:46 PM.

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    Seems to me it's more about super setting a complimentary muscle. For instance, back days activate biceps with rows,lats,etc, so follow each exercise with curls for super bicep pump. Same goes for chest pressing/triceps. Do a drop set for your last super set of day to get freaky. I honestly don't know though, just move weight around and feel good
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    SuperSet = one movement directly into another movement without any rest.

    It can be an agonist/antagonist approach(chest back/push pull) -- you can set these up anyway you want to compliment your training routine etc(biceps into triceps like he did) or I prefer hitting the same muscle with a s/s - Straight bar curls(heavy HIT) into seated DB drag curls(keeping elbows back as far as possible - into 1/4 reps to zero movement) for ex;

    IMHO there's no wrong way to do these - one could throw in tri-sets etc to up intensity
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    You can also use a pre-exhaustion movement along with a compound movement as a super set. Do DB flyes straight into BB bench or inclines. Leg extensions before squats. Any isolation movement before a compound movement will increase the work load and intensity on the muscle being targeted. Get creative and don't do the same thing over and over again.
    Last edited by [email protected]; 10-21-2016 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    You can also use a pre-exhaustion movement along with a compound movement as a super set. Do DB flyes straight into BB bench or inclines. Leg extensions before squats. Any isolation movement before a compound movement will increase the work load and intensity on the muscle being targeted. Get creative and don't do the same thing over and over again.
    I love utilizing pre-exhaust [email protected] you still get all of the benefits of pressing last... even putting the risk of injury lower as one wouldn't need as much weight for the same effect...

    When hitting delts I do this often(due to my injuries)... chest as above it's great as well -- all round great technique!

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    So old school super setting was basically 2 or more lifts back to back for different muscle groups.

    So for example, pull ups, into triceps ext into bicep curls. It's now evolved a bit to mean any series of different lifts without rest in between.

    At least that is the way I understood it from 20 years ago
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    SuperSet = one movement directly into another movement without any rest.

    It can be an agonist/antagonist approach(chest back/push pull) -- you can set these up anyway you want to compliment your training routine etc(biceps into triceps like he did) or I prefer hitting the same muscle with a s/s - Straight bar curls(heavy HIT) into seated DB drag curls(keeping elbows back as far as possible - into 1/4 reps to zero movement) for ex;

    IMHO there's no wrong way to do these - one could throw in tri-sets etc to up intensity
    Right. I figured. It's whatever as long as it follows up right after first set. I like mine. I do triples all day. Love it. And I also do post exhaust with an isolation move round 10-12 reps. To burn out. I don't do pre exhaust usually cuz I like to direct most my energy on the compund lifts. Love Triple drop sets with a super set that follows of a different lift tht works the same muscle group.
    Last edited by Marsoc; 10-21-2016 at 03:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post

    you still get all of the benefits of pressing last... even putting the risk of injury lower as one wouldn't need as much weight for the same effect...
    The reduced injury risk is a definite byproduct of doing pre-exhaustion techniques. But you don't see many use this because of just what you said above. You have to use less weight on the compound movement and that messes with one's ego.
    We are so concerned with lifting more weight that we forget that isn't always the final goal of getting bigger.
    Train smart for what your goals are. But that takes time and discipline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The reduced injury risk is a definite byproduct of doing pre-exhaustion techniques. But you don't see many use this because of just what you said above. You have to use less weight on the compound movement and that messes with one's ego.
    We are so concerned with lifting more weight that we forget that isn't always the final goal of getting bigger.
    Train smart for what your goals are. But that takes time and discipline.
    Since I have a bum shoulder I will do very light super sets of dumbbell shoulder raises, lateral raises, tricep ext and reverse flys to warm up that whole shoulder girdle complex, before a heavy compound pressing movement. Not to prefatigue per say. But to stimulate the neurology and get some adrenaline released, to help prime that motor pattern required for pressing to increase force production and decrease injury risk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Since I have a bum shoulder I will do very light super sets of dumbbell shoulder raises, lateral raises, tricep ext and reverse flys to warm up that whole shoulder girdle complex, before a heavy compound pressing movement. Not to prefatigue per say. But to stimulate the neurology and get some adrenaline released, to help prime that motor pattern required for pressing to increase force production and decrease injury risk.
    I sometimes like to tweak thing a bit and I'll aim for a higher volume of reps say around 10-12. But I will utilize drop sets and lift weight I can only get up around 3-4 times. Drop weight then continue until I reach my max reps goal but using weight I wouldn't normally get those reps with. I think it just normal drop setting but rather doing 6-8 reps. I Go heavy sometimes. Cuz I don't like the low volume of rep when using heavy heavy weight so I get it in somehow though like that. Note the when I'm doing this. My goal reps will reduce alot cuz of the fatigue. I start with whatever weight I'm using and whatever I'm dropping it by and I get my goal reps at first but after all that volume. By the 2ND set I'm already down a few reps total on each drop set or super ETc.
    Last edited by Marsoc; 10-21-2016 at 10:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The reduced injury risk is a definite byproduct of doing pre-exhaustion techniques. But you don't see many use this because of just what you said above. You have to use less weight on the compound movement and that messes with one's ego.
    We are so concerned with lifting more weight that we forget that isn't always the final goal of getting bigger.
    Train smart for what your goals are. But that takes time and discipline.

    600's on point. The main purpose of a pre-exhaust superset (isolation followed by a compound) is to fatigue the muscle so that when the compound exercise is performed the actual target muscle fails first, not the ancillary muscles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post

    600's on point. The main purpose of a pre-exhaust superset (isolation followed by a compound) is to fatigue the muscle so that when the compound exercise is performed the actual target muscle fails first, not the ancillary muscles.
    Right.

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    i heard the same thing almost 5 yrs ago. ever since then no detail was ever given. seems like an option.

    sweet responses to your post. I like that bit about drop setting until one reaches 12. it's a good indicator of the effort needed. i think i'll use that.
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 10-22-2016 at 04:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlolec View Post
    i heard the same thing almost 5 yrs ago. ever since then no detail was ever given. seems like an option.

    sweet responses to your post. I like that bit about drop setting until one reaches 12. it's a good indicator of the effort needed. i think i'll use that.
    What. With the using heavy weight high volume thingy. Dude u would piss ur panties if u were there for my delux back session today. Then sat out in. Tree stand afterwords for about 4 hours in the cold. Pissd I couldn't eat after my post WO shake etc. I'll follow up in my EARTH gym lol
    Last edited by Marsoc; 10-23-2016 at 10:29 AM.

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    Super sets are great. I love doing lying hamstring curls into seated quad extensions. When your quads and hams are pumping at the same time suck me off its a great feeling!!!!!!!
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    Squats to pre exhaust the hams. Right into leg press for quads. Possibly to hack squat or extensions...then puke
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    What. With the using heavy weight high volume thingy. Dude u would piss ur panties if u were there for my delux back session today. Then sat out in. Tree stand afterwords for about 4 hours in the cold. Pissd I couldn't eat after my post WO shake etc. I'll follow up in my EARTH gym lol
    sounds like a wasted session. i get cranky if i don't eat and/or sleep.

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    I TOTALLY am sold on super sets. So it I was totally taken off guard when I followed a set of squat with a set of Romanian Deadlift when my hamstring snapped! Yep, pop! It stinks to get old! lol

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    yikes! how old are you Scotch?

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    I love drops on dumbbell presses and dumbbell inclines.

    Ill do three sets I can get 12 to 15 to failure, then last two sets are weight I can get to 8 reps to failure, then immediately grab the 12 to 15 rep weight, and force those to 10 or 12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlolec View Post
    sounds like a wasted session. i get cranky if i don't eat and/or sleep.
    Def not a wasted session. I had 50grams whey post. Then like 4 slices of philly cheese steak pizza since I knew I was going out. All I had. And I brought 2 granola bars. Got home 4hours later and had two whey wraps with the meat off of 2 big chicken thighs. Then a 700calorie pb n j. Milk etc.

    Dude next day not even 24 hours later my back is already nice and sore. Going to be thorough next day or two I can tell. Def not wasted. Best back session in a while ..wish I could have done some deadlifts for spinal erectors. But o well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    The reduced injury risk is a definite byproduct of doing pre-exhaustion techniques. But you don't see many use this because of just what you said above. You have to use less weight on the compound movement and that messes with one's ego.
    We are so concerned with lifting more weight that we forget that isn't always the final goal of getting bigger.
    Train smart for what your goals are. But that takes time and discipline.
    I did supersets incline dumbbell press to flies HIT today and totally wiped my chest - into flat bench where I had to drop less than a 45 plate on each side. Ego definitely did not like that, but I persisted, haha. Felt like I should be wearing Lulu lemons doing that light bench, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    I love drops on dumbbell presses and dumbbell inclines.

    Ill do three sets I can get 12 to 15 to failure, then last two sets are weight I can get to 8 reps to failure, then immediately grab the 12 to 15 rep weight, and force those to 10 or 12
    Your actually not really going to failure if you can do all those reps out of a dropset. Your better forgetting about drops and focus over the next few months learning how to truly go to positive failure. You'll start building muscle tissue instead of burning yourself out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post

    I did supersets incline dumbbell press to flies HIT today and totally wiped my chest - into flat bench where I had to drop less than a 45 plate on each side. Ego definitely did not like that, but I persisted, haha. Felt like I should be wearing Lulu lemons doing that light bench, though.
    Going to failure on a movement where you can't do another rep or set is the most efficient way to train. Drop sets need to be used sparingly because done incorrectly they can deplete your energy reserves that your body needs for growth. Complete total failure is momentary. In a few minutes you could do another set of a movement. But we're going after momentary total failure. Don't get caught up in the "I'll just do one more set" train of thought. You still need an energy reserve for growth.
    Drop sets can be fun but should not be the basis for your training in my opinion.
    Last edited by [email protected]; 10-24-2016 at 06:16 AM.
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    Great Intel Marcus300, [email protected] and everyone else. I like changing from drops to supers. And then combos. Then all the other methods thrown in there here or there every month changes pretty much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post

    Your actually not really going to failure if you can do all those reps out of a dropset. Your better forgetting about drops and focus over the next few months learning how to truly go to positive failure. You'll start building muscle tissue instead of burning yourself out.
    I don't have anybody to lift with it would take dumbbells that I can't manage to get up myself to go to failure within eight reps like it's hard for me to go to failure without a training partner to help

    For what it's worth those last few reps are super fucking sloppy like I'm cheating them up that's as close as I can get to failure by myself with dumbbells?

    Do you have any tips 4 going to failure without a training partner I can get hundreds about 6 times or so butt getting them up with my hundred forty pound ass is a bit difficult and then setting correct form is even more difficult because they outweigh Me by 60 pounds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    I don't have anybody to lift with it would take dumbbells that I can't manage to get up myself to go to failure within eight reps like it's hard for me to go to failure without a training partner to help

    For what it's worth those last few reps are super fucking sloppy like I'm cheating them up that's as close as I can get to failure by myself with dumbbells?

    Do you have any tips 4 going to failure without a training partner I can get hundreds about 6 times or so butt getting them up with my hundred forty pound ass is a bit difficult and then setting correct form is even more difficult because they outweigh Me by 60 pounds
    I set like thre sets of dumbells around me while I sit on the bench. They are heavy sometimes 3 reps max but I lift them up and the same time drop my shoulder to get my forearm under it and then the other one then go at it. I drop them pretty much when I'm done on the mats

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post

    I set like thre sets of dumbells around me while I sit on the bench. They are heavy sometimes 3 reps max but I lift them up and the same time drop my shoulder to get my forearm under it and then the other one then go at it. I drop them pretty much when I'm done on the mats
    Cool.

    How much deviation between the three pairs?

    Whats the heaviest
    Middle
    Lightest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Cool.

    How much deviation between the three pairs?

    Whats the heaviest
    Middle
    Lightest?
    I forget but it's whatever I can get reps of 3 sometimes when I'm using drop sets to go heavy weight high volume. Till i reach a desired rep range like 10-12 using 3 sets of 3 or 4 reps roughly and I consider that one set. I use the deep end of the rack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post

    I don't have anybody to lift with it would take dumbbells that I can't manage to get up myself to go to failure within eight reps like it's hard for me to go to failure without a training partner to help

    For what it's worth those last few reps are super fucking sloppy like I'm cheating them up that's as close as I can get to failure by myself with dumbbells?

    Do you have any tips 4 going to failure without a training partner I can get hundreds about 6 times or so butt getting them up with my hundred forty pound ass is a bit difficult and then setting correct form is even more difficult because they outweigh Me by 60 pounds
    You are not accomplishing anything with sloppy form as you've described. Drop the weight to what you can do with a full range of motion. Full stretch at the bottom to a full lockout. No half assed partial reps. FULL REPS. When you get to the last full complete rep then do a couple more partial reps. Don't let your ego get you to using too much weight and sloppy form.
    For some added intensity pause and stretch at the bottom before blasting the weight up. I don't care how much you need to drop the weights to use proper form for your first 6-8 reps. Then do a couple of partials to failure.
    That might be the best you can do without a training partner. You'll figure out other ways to go to failure. Think. Be inventive.
    Last edited by [email protected]; 10-24-2016 at 10:52 PM.
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    Exactly. The weight I use is determined by the amount of reps I can get with proper form. Although I do keep a log of my lifts, I mainly do it to keep an eye on my #of reps. If I start hitting the upper end of my rep range w/ good form, then I bump the weight or add in an isolation movement to preexhaust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

    You are not accomplishing anything with sloppy form as you've described. Drop the weight to what you can do with a full range of motion. Full stretch at the bottom to a full lockout. No half assed partial reps. FULL REPS. When you get to the last full complete rep then do a couple more partial reps. Don't let your ego get you to using too much weight and sloppy form.
    For some added intensity pause and stretch at the bottom before blasting the weight up. I don't care how much you need to drop the weights to use proper form for your first 6-8 reps. Then do a couple of partials to failure.
    That might be the best you can do without a training partner. You'll figure out other ways to go to failure. Think. Be inventive.
    What I mean by sloppy is, if it wasn't for me lifting ass off and punching up arc the last few are failure, I'm just doing what I can to keep from literally dropping them mid rep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    What I mean by sloppy is, if it wasn't for me lifting ass off and punching up arc the last few are failure, I'm just doing what I can to keep from literally dropping them mid rep


    Your weights are likely still too high explaining what you are.... slow your tempo down try some TUT training(concentrating on slow positive flexing with slow negatives(eccentric action) & squeezing statically for 2sec) for ex... 4/2/4 tempo 4sec on way up 2sec static hold(squeezing the fuck out of that movement) -- slower and more controlled(don't worry about the weight so much just as long as your failing at 8-12 reps...

    Once you get true positive failure down you can implement drop sets(just enough weight if hitting 6 reps in your working set to positive failure you only want about 2-3 reps to failure again drop set only enough to get 1-3 reps - this is why your deelervsets arecdo important so you don't use too light or heavy of weight!

    Fight until you are dropping them mid rep but always sustain proper form / especially on the last few reps that's where the groth is! Best of luck and keep
    Pushing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post

    What I mean by sloppy is, if it wasn't for me lifting ass off and punching up arc the last few are failure, I'm just doing what I can to keep from literally dropping them mid rep
    That's sloppy uncontrolled reps. You need to get 6-8 controlled tempo reps. No butt raise. No squirming on the bench. No foot tapping around like you're dancing. Tight, fixed, controlled reps. The only change would be the last 1 or 2 reps are a little slower than the rest.
    Try following the tempo recommendations by Nach3 above. That should help with your form too. Make sure you go all the way down at the bottom for a good stretch too. That will help ensure proper form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    I don't have anybody to lift with it would take dumbbells that I can't manage to get up myself to go to failure within eight reps like it's hard for me to go to failure without a training partner to help

    For what it's worth those last few reps are super fucking sloppy like I'm cheating them up that's as close as I can get to failure by myself with dumbbells?

    Do you have any tips 4 going to failure without a training partner I can get hundreds about 6 times or so butt getting them up with my hundred forty pound ass is a bit difficult and then setting correct form is even more difficult because they outweigh Me by 60 pounds
    I would really question what you think true positive failure was to be ho9nest but if you can do all those reps in the drops your using to lighter weight when you dropset. You shouldn't be doing all those reps and each one to true positive failure its obvious that your not going to true failure or/and your drops are to light IMHO mate.

  38. #38
    Couchlock is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post

    I would really question what you think true positive failure was to be ho9nest but if you can do all those reps in the drops your using to lighter weight when you dropset. You shouldn't be doing all those reps and each one to true positive failure its obvious that your not going to true failure or/and your drops are to light IMHO mate.
    Failure in my mind is you loose ability to push more.

    I'm having a strength to body weight crisis of sorts I can show you a video if needed.

    I can damn near go all day repping 80s 85s clean and slow.
    .when I grab heavier they outweigh me soo much I get almost over whelmed and fall forward trying to get them up to start pressing.

    It seems at the 95 or 100 lb mark I don't have enough ancillary? Strength to stabilize them to get them clean.

    If I had them handed to me one at a time, I'm good (had some one do this once)

    I'm a little guy, 5'5" 140, I'm beyond what I can control.

    I did do the 4 2 4 tempo today, I must say its a different feeling, and its slower pace im not used to, but it damn sure get hard at the last few.

    I have a habit of rushing through things, I guess I just need to focus on the negatives and static holds like I'm told.

    It is a much different style.

    I'm going to keep utilizing it for a while., I really do appreciate the help guys, I wouldn't ask if I didn't need the advice, or plan on following it.

    I really wish I had some spotter help in the gym, I'm using my basement as a gym, its very complete, York Olympic wide grip bench, York dumbbells 35 to 85

    Inclinr, decline, benches as well, and York lat pull down and row station

    My daddy was a big lifter, he left me this stuff.
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  39. #39
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    I herd thts why juice is bad idea for those without built up strength in some areas to handle the muscle strength u gain from a cycle. U seem pretty strong so don't think dogging u. Tht video would be cool and go from there..man I didn't know this post would take of slightly like this lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    I herd thts why juice is bad idea for those without built up strength in some areas to handle the muscle strength u gain from a cycle. U seem pretty strong so don't think dogging u. Tht video would be cool and go from there..man I didn't know this post would take of slightly like this lol
    I've been like that prior to this cycle, this is first cycle 7.5wks in.

    I always used the 70 s true 85s, 90s when I feel froggy

    Difference now is I can get way more reps prior to cycle I was spent at 12 on 80s
    Now I can rep out 20 pretty quick.

    I need training partners other than my pitbull watching me lol.
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