Anti psychotics and increased prolactin.

[edmundo22]

Hey guy's.

Iv been lifting weights for the past two years all the while taking seroqual, I didn't know it increased prolactin till recently, I used to be very well built my whole life without weights and without proper diet have naturally high testosterone. I attributed my loss of muscle to been 35 but now I'm thinking the seroqual to be a bigger factor, I'm eating all the right food have a calorie surplus and a solid work out routine but still no gains or progress but have lost 40 lb of fat, I don't know exactly how much seroqual increases prolactin it's not meant to be the worst psych med for this. I was switched to rispadone recently and literally had zero strength or energy so I stopped it it's meant to be the worst for prolactin, I'm due to start clozapine but if it's wrecking my ability to grow muscle I might not, I don't know if clozapine increases prolactin it's different from all other psych meds but I can't find any exact literature on it, if anyone knows anything about it please let me know.

[GearHeaded]

I don't know much about psych drugs at all . BUT I do know there are things that you can take that do not necessarily lower your Prolactin, but will blunt prolactin receptors and may thus be of benefit to you. but I'm saying that assuming your an AAS user and why your on a steroid forum

[edmundo22]

Not an AAS user, I already had an account on here so I just use it for general workout advice.

[GearHeaded]

Not an AAS user, I already had an account on here so I just use it for general workout advice.

well darn it I was just about to prescribe you some steroids to take.

oh well.. so how is your nutrition, do you get in plenty of red meat ?

[edmundo22]

Which steroid?, At dinner it's either 300 grams of chicken or salmon / beef / pork / lamb, I don't want to take testosterone just want my natural test at its best but wouldn't say no to a steroid for reducing prolactin, is it carber?, cuz that's kinda pricey for a long term solution.

[SocioMachiavelli]

All Anti-psychotics have side effects, clozapine especially that is why it is only usually prescribed after two other anti-psychotics have failed to have a therapeutic benefit.

Clozapine is incredibly efficient at causing metabolic syndrome, Type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular problems. I could provide you with journal articles on this if you like, I wrote a paper on this not long ago. If you don't mind me asking what is your diagnosis? You appear quite insightful and your cognitive functioning seems Ok... so what's the justification for the clozapine?

[edmundo22]

Hey Socio.
you know your stuff, my diagnosis is major depression and paranoid psychosis, I got both from getting addicted to huffing leaded gasoline as a kid. Iv ran through a bunch of anti psych meds over the past 10 years none have really helped, it's only cuz I suggested clozapine to my doc that there finally putting me on it, it's meant to be the best and most effective, I can deal with drooling at night, feeling drowsy but don't want fatigue / lack of strength. Iv read clozapine works differently from all the rest in that it doesn't affect dopamine receptors which I think is the cause of increased prolactin, I'm also looking into nuerogenic drugs to heal whatever damage I have in my brain, currently taking NSI 189 and looking into ISRIB next, I workout mostly cause it helps depression just don't want to be held back due to psych meds hindering my progress.

My doc says it does increase prolactin, it could be minimal but I can't find anything online that gives exact figures, what's metabolic syndrome?, getting fat?

[SocioMachiavelli]

Hey Socio.
you know your stuff, my diagnosis is major depression and paranoid psychosis, I got both from getting addicted to huffing leaded gasoline as a kid. Iv ran through a bunch of anti psych meds over the past 10 years none have really helped, it's only cuz I suggested clozapine to my doc that there finally putting me on it, it's meant to be the best and most effective, I can deal with drooling at night, feeling drowsy but don't want fatigue / lack of strength. Iv read clozapine works differently from all the rest in that it doesn't affect dopamine receptors which I think is the cause of increased prolactin, I'm also looking into nuerogenic drugs to heal whatever damage I have in my brain, currently taking NSI 189 and looking into ISRIB next, I workout mostly cause it helps depression just don't want to be held back due to psych meds hindering my progress.

My doc says it does increase prolactin, it could be minimal but I can't find anything online that gives exact figures, what's metabolic syndrome?, getting fat?

Cardiovascular exercise can cause neurogenesis, to combat the depression running would be better than lifting.... but both would be best.

What are you like when you are off of your meds? I'm sure that you are aware that you have to be slowly titrated onto the clozapine and you should be having both pre and post clozapine observations.... This consists of BP/Heart rate/temp/resp rate etc. I am interested how this will be facilitated outside of a hospital, Unless I am mistaken and you are in one. You will also require routine blood tests to check for agranulocytosis, also if you are smoker this can inhibit the concentration levels of the drug in your system... So if you do smoke and decide to stop talk to the doc first.

Clozapine can be incredibly effective at treating resistant psychotic symptoms, however on average men with schizophrenia die on average 18.6 years younger than those without it... A lot of this is down to lifestyle choice but also due to iatrogenic illness (illness caused by the psych meds). If you could find a way of making it work without the clozapine I would definitely do that, I appreciate you have spent ten years trying to find the right meds... but I'd advise keep looking and take up running.

You can also be prescribed procyclidine to combat the extra pyramidal side effects such as excess salivation etc

[Testlolblast]

Don't take clozapine: it's bad for white blood cells. Usually haldol is first line. Well abilify stabilizes dopaminergetic system. Abilify + haldol is a good choice not to get too high prolactin levels, but it's better to rely on a doctor's choice. There is also bromocriptine by the way.

[Testlolblast]

By the way, it's a proven fact that inapropiate steroid use can cause halucinations, psychosis, etc. I would not advise you to take anything more than testosterone as being on TRT. Good luck!

[SocioMachiavelli]

By the way, it's a proven fact that inapropiate steroid use can cause halucinations, psychosis, etc. I would not advise you to take anything more than testosterone as being on TRT. Good luck!

That's a very strong assertion to make. Could you point me in the direction of the evidence for this?

[edmundo22]

Thanks for the reply's.
I switched to vaping 5 years back and already do cardio, had more bloods done today and starting clozapine next few days, there's an outpatient hospital that will be doing daily tests and monitoring everything, already been on a ton of psych meds that haven't worked hence the clozapine which is meant to be the most effective.

Back to why I made this most, if it's not prolactin killing my gains it has to be the cardio, lol I don't know shit, I start the gym with 10 minutes on the treadmill flat out at 13 on the dial don't know if it's km/hr or what but it's fast and intense, Iv recently read your meant to space out six hours between both and definitely not right before lifting.

So is this where Iv been going wrong?, If I switch to running on my rest days will I start getting gains?

[mexecutioner]

I highly doubt your problems are due to prolactin but mostly is due to your antipsychotic use. While great medications for their indicated uses, metabolic syndrome is a notorious side effect of their use. Atypical antipsychotics are even worse than typical antipsychotics because they also block the 5-HT2c receptor, causing increased appetite, and so forth. Additionally, some antipsychotics, including clozapine, have other mechanisms by which they induce weight gain and metabolic syndrome, as per wiki:

"In addition to hyperglycemia, significant weight gain is frequently experienced by patients treated with clozapine.[37] Impaired glucose metabolism and obesity have been shown to be constituents of the metabolic syndrome and may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease. The data suggest that clozapine may be more likely to cause adverse metabolic effects than some of the other atypical antipsychotics.[38] A study has established that olanzapine and clozapine disturb the metabolism by making the body take preferentially its energy from fat (instead of privileging carbohydrates). Levels of carbohydrates remaining high, the body develops insulin resistance (causing diabetes).[39]

If you need to take an antipsychotic, you should try abilify (aripiprazole) as it tends to be weight neutral due to the fact that it’s a partial 5-HT2c agonist (compared to most antipsychotics that are antagonists at this receptor) although like any medications, there are no guarantees.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I'd certainly recommend separating the cardio from the weight lifting. To maximise hypertrophy you want to be able to lift heavily and with good form. If you hit the treadmill first and are running like you stole something you're going to be depleting the muscles glycogen etc before lifting. You want to have all your energy etc saved for the lifting.

[edmundo22]

I stopped the cardio and my pecks are finally growing back, still have a good bit of fat left to loose, would it be okay to do cardio on rest days?

Also started apple cider vinegar it seems to work for some and not at all for others, if it reduces insulin it should do something for fat loss, I tried taking clen again but my doctor has to check my heart rate and temperature for the clozapine the clen had both up yesterday so def can't do it.

The NSI 189 is doing wonders for my head, Iv noticed a great reduction in paranoid psychosis and my depression, I wake up feeling good and happy without racing thoughts.

Let me know about the cardio.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I stopped the cardio and my pecks are finally growing back, still have a good bit of fat left to loose, would it be okay to do cardio on rest days?

Also started apple cider vinegar it seems to work for some and not at all for others, if it reduces insulin it should do something for fat loss, I tried taking clen again but my doctor has to check my heart rate and temperature for the clozapine the clen had both up yesterday so def can't do it.

The NSI 189 is doing wonders for my head, Iv noticed a great reduction in paranoid psychosis and my depression, I wake up feeling good and happy without racing thoughts.

Let me know about the cardio.

Yes cardio on non weight days would be fine. But remember to actually have rest days, I'm hoping he checked BP etc as well. Have they scheduled bloods whilst titrating? Due to the potential for clozapine to cause cardiac issues long term you need to stay away from clen and other stimulants in general from now on. The clozapine will get your heart rate up anyway, so cardio is going to be an important part of your life from now on if you want to maintain a healthy heart.

[Kimbo Almond]

There's something I don't understand here.

The main medication to reduce prolactin is Dostinex (sold as Cabergoline). Dostinex works as a dopamine agonist (if I understand correctly), just like the modern so-called antipsychotics do (e.g. olanzapine, risperidone). The difference is that dostinex doesn't have a mental effect because it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier.

So if dostinex reduces prolactin, and if major tranquilisers like olanzapine do the same thing, then I would expect seroquel to decrease prolactin.

I'm not a doc or anything but I'm surprised your prolactin is up instead of down.

[mexecutioner]

Antipsychotics are dopamine ANTAGONIST (not agonist) thus they block the effects of dopamine at receptor sites.

[waltr64]

I'd recommend getting your hormones tested to see if your prolactin is high or if any of your other hormones may be off due to seroqual. If your prolactin is high you can eat lots of broccoli or get some caber. Good luck.

[AlphaMindz]

Don't mess with dopamine agonists, especially if you're on psych meds. There could potentially be a serious interaction there.

If you don't want to go the trt route which is what I'd recommend (but all due respect I'm sure you have your reasons) then I would add proviron to your daily regimen as it will blunt prolactin, decrease estrogen, and increase free testosterone so it will accomplish a lot and provide the specific results you're looking for.

[MuscleScience]

That's a very strong assertion to make. Could you point me in the direction of the evidence for this?

I would second what SM said. Although this is a biased audience. The literature on AAS and mental health is scares. With an average of 1.3pages of evidence published every minute to pubmed. If the evidence wAs there, it wouldn’t be so dang hard to find!

At least that’s how I view citations. Lol

[Testlolblast]

The only dopaminergetic system stabilizing medication is aripiprazole, it makes to produce more dopamine if you are deficient and also blocks dopamine release if you have it too much. Like I said it's very often prescribed in combination with neuroleptic medications like risperidone, haloperidol and olanzapine, to protect from a complete dopamine realise blockade and also positively improves prolactin - dopamine ratio. Well if your doc is against prescribing it there is also dopamine agonist medication called bromocriptine, I think you will not need to add more than 2.5 mg to restore prolactin in normal range.