Hit muscles 2x a week??

So I'm on my first cycle ever. I'm running 500mgs of test c250. I'm 5 weeks in and loving it! Now that I'm on this test and my recovery time is so.much shorter, is it safe to say I can double back and hit the same body part 2 times per week. Like chest on monday and come back on thur and hit again?? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by GTtheGUY

So I'm on my first cycle ever. I'm running 500mgs of test c250. I'm 5 weeks in and loving it! Now that I'm on this test and my recovery time is so.much shorter, is it safe to say I can double back and hit the same body part 2 times per week. Like chest on monday and come back on thur and hit again?? Thanks.

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Of course.

Just make sure you listen to your body, you will know when your ready to train that same body part again. One of my good friends, trains legs 3x per week... Generally i do everything twice.

With that in mind, make sure you balance out your volume/intensity and train smart.

you'd likely be better off doing body parts 2x per week rather then 1x per week anyways, no matter being on cycle or not.

'bro splits' where you only hit one body part per week are generally best suited for beasts that are super strong and big to begin with.
they create enough homeostatic stress and volume in one workout to require a whole week of rest for that body part. . your average 200 pound guy benching 275 does not.

think about it. a 250 pound beast trains chest. lets say he does bench press for 405 for 5 sets of 12, then on to incline dumbbell press hitting the 150s for 5 sets of 15.
well volume = sets X reps X weight moved. so go ahead an tally up how much volume this guy has already pushed and he's only two exercises in.

again this guy is creating a ton of homeostatic stress in a single workout. he's going to need a whole week for his chest to recover. . but you and me are not near this strong. we can't push that weight and volume. our chest will be ready to go in just a few days.

thats why higher frequency works better for the majority of people

Thanks for the info! I've started doing a couple muscle groups twice time permitting. But I need to just start hitting it all twice and make the most of this cycle!!

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

you'd likely be better off doing body parts 2x per week rather then 1x per week anyways, no matter being on cycle or not.

'bro splits' where you only hit one body part per week are generally best suited for beasts that are super strong and big to begin with.
they create enough homeostatic stress and volume in one workout to require a whole week of rest for that body part. . your average 200 pound guy benching 275 does not.

think about it. a 250 pound beast trains chest. lets say he does bench press for 405 for 5 sets of 12, then on to incline dumbbell press hitting the 150s for 5 sets of 15.
well volume = sets X reps X weight moved. so go ahead an tally up how much volume this guy has already pushed and he's only two exercises in.

again this guy is creating a ton of homeostatic stress in a single workout. he's going to need a whole week for his chest to recover. . but you and me are not near this strong. we can't push that weight and volume. our chest will be ready to go in just a few days.

thats why higher frequency works better for the majority of people

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I agree with this to a point. Volume & how intensely you train your muscles is dependent upon your level of training and development. Thus, for initial trainers, anything has volume or intensity, but there must be a gradual progression in everyone to cause further stimulation & growth. It could be volume per workout, volume per week, it could/should be a progression in resistance, it could be in the amount of time in between sets.

I really believe it’s a question of genetics & simply how you as an individual respond. Thus there really is no absolute right or wrong answer.

Genetic beasts are just that. I would theorize that just about anything they try will bring more visible results than the average joe. Of course what works best for them is what they preach and therefore the controversy arises. Of course who can argue, they are beasts, we are not. As one group is doing something different than us and are responding better, that would make our choice of training inferior, again controversy.

I’ve long battled with this controversy & have gone back and forth with the “debate” with some of our HIT guys. BTW, these guys are amoungst the best dudes on this forum & that was not a slight by any means.

Try everything, document and track progress (or lack of) and go with what works best for you. Block out the noise.

Off topic, GH, this is the second post of yours that I’ve responded to some what argumentatively, but that is not my intent. I’m pretty educated myself with a solid background, I’ve just been away a while as some of my “debates” got heated. Thought it was best to take a long vacation, but ultimately came back because this is such a great forum. Really love your insight!

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Originally Posted by Proximal

Off topic, GH, this is the second post of yours that I’ve responded to some what argumentatively, but that is not my intent. I’m pretty educated myself with a solid background, I’ve just been away a while as some of my “debates” got heated. Thought it was best to take a long vacation, but ultimately came back because this is such a great forum. Really love your insight!

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I didn't consider it an "argumentative" response at all . quite the opposite, just simply good 'discussion' . I always enjoy good discussion and varying points of view being we all have different experiences, backgrounds, and genetics. this is bodybuilding, not 'politics' or 'religion' ,, so theres no reason for a debate to ever get heated being this is all something we have a privilege and are blessed to be able to do and discuss openly.
good to have you back and look forward to more interaction and quality discussion !

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I didn't consider it an "argumentative" response at all . quite the opposite, just simply good 'discussion' . I always enjoy good discussion and varying points of view being we all have different experiences, backgrounds, and genetics. this is bodybuilding, not 'politics' or 'religion' ,, so theres no reason for a debate to ever get heated being this is all something we have a privilege and are blessed to be able to do and discuss openly.
good to have you back and look forward to more interaction and quality discussion !

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Thanks bro, greatly appreciated. Got to admit, this place is friendlier than when I left & am really liking that. We all should be here for each other. Looking forward to more discussions buddy!

On or off cycle, I usually hit each group twice always rotating one group once because I have one rest day.

Chest
Back/Bi's
Legs
Delts/Traps/Tri's
Chest
Back/Bi's
REST


The next week I may hit delts/traps/tris twice and only hit back or chest once. If I am trying to grow a certain muscle group that may be lagging I will automatically hit it twice a week. If you watch a lot of the pros when they are trying to grow a certain muscle group they will hit it more often. But like it was said above, listen to your body and if you are getting aches and pains from a muscle group give it some rest.

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Originally Posted by MACKATTACK

On or off cycle, I usually hit each group twice always rotating one group once because I have one rest day.

Chest
Back/Bi's
Legs
Delts/Traps/Tri's
Chest
Back/Bi's
REST


The next week I may hit delts/traps/tris twice and only hit back or chest once. If I am trying to grow a certain muscle group that may be lagging I will automatically hit it twice a week. If you watch a lot of the pros when they are trying to grow a certain muscle group they will hit it more often. But like it was said above, listen to your body and if you are getting aches and pains from a muscle group give it some rest.

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So with that split what sort of volume are you doing per workout?

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Originally Posted by GTtheGUY

So I'm on my first cycle ever. I'm running 500mgs of test c250. I'm 5 weeks in and loving it! Now that I'm on this test and my recovery time is so.much shorter, is it safe to say I can double back and hit the same body part 2 times per week. Like chest on monday and come back on thur and hit again?? Thanks.

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You possibly could for awhile but I think eventually it may be too much. Try it out and listen to your body.

2x weekly is the way to go. My split goes as follows

Shoulders/Chest
Back
Quads/Calves
Bis/Tris
Chest/Shoulders
Hams/Cavs

works for me
:bigsmiley:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyV85

2x weekly is the way to go. My split goes as follows

Shoulders/Chest
Back
Quads/Calves
Bis/Tris
Chest/Shoulders
Hams/Cavs

works for me
:bigsmiley:

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yeah but your only hitting a couple of body parts 2x per week with that split, all others are just once per week. why not tweak that split so its truly a 2x split

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

yeah but your only hitting a couple of body parts 2x per week with that split, all others are just once per week. why not tweak that split so its truly a 2x split

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Im interested in seeing what tweaks you'd make to my split. Ive been on this one for a bit already anyway.

-chest, front delts, side delts, triceps
-back, rear delts, traps, biceps (back thickness dominant)
- quads, hams, calves (quad dominant)
- rest
-chest, front delts, side delts, triceps
-back, rear delts, traps, biceps (width and lat dominant)
- quads, hams, calves (hamstring dominant)

thats as simple as a 2x per week traditional split gets. every body part is hit twice per week. this can be more tweaked and advanced as well.. example, the first part of the week everything can be hit with heavier sets and more compound exercises, the second series can be hit with more volume higher reps and isolation . that way within one week, you've hit every angle of hypertrophy to a small degree at least

want even more frequency ..heres what a high frequency split would look like

- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (low rep)
rest
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (low rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)

everything is hit 3x per week.

I've found this type of split works extremely well for women, or for guys that have super high recovery rates

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

-chest, front delts, side delts, triceps
-back, rear delts, traps, biceps (back thickness dominant)
- quads, hams, calves (quad dominant)
- rest
-chest, front delts, side delts, triceps
-back, rear delts, traps, biceps (width and lat dominant)
- quads, hams, calves (hamstring dominant)

thats as simple as a 2x per week traditional split gets. every body part is hit twice per week. this can be more tweaked and advanced as well.. example, the first part of the week everything can be hit with heavier sets and more compound exercises, the second series can be hit with more volume higher reps and isolation . that way within one week, you've hit every angle of hypertrophy to a small degree at least

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Ill give this a go. Thanks for your feedback!

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Originally Posted by JohnnyV85

Ill give this a go. Thanks for your feedback!

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Sorry to jump in, are you super setting these?
For example, on quads, hams, calves are jumping from muscle group, working the same muscles with different movements or hanging at the same machine until done?

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

want even more frequency ..heres what a high frequency split would look like

- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (low rep)
rest
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (low rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)

everything is hit 3x per week.

I've found this type of split works extremely well for women, or for guys that have super high recovery rates

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Surely you’ll have to be on more than test plus a massive calorie surplus to pull this off. Growth comes with rest.
Unless I’m confused and you mean a 8 days split. Cause that rest day in the middle is confusing g it’s not 3 on 1 of its 6 on 1 off?
Which would mean Chest/back/cheats/back :/

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

Surely you’ll have to be on more than test plus a massive calorie surplus to pull this off. Growth comes with rest.
Unless I’m confused and you mean a 8 days split. Cause that rest day in the middle is confusing g it’s not 3 on 1 of its 6 on 1 off?
Which would mean Chest/back/cheats/back :/

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how can you say you need to be on gear and a calorie surplus to pull this off when you don't know the intensity design, overall volume, set/rep schemes, rest time between sets, etc. etc..? all you know is the frequency. you don't have enough variables to make the assumption .

I have lots of clients on programs like this, from natural male 'newbs' in their 50s, to women trying to diet down, to serious enhanced lifters. again, all this example gives is the splits 'frequency' and nothing more.

your lacking 75% of the information to think someone needs to be on lots of gear to do this split.

and fyi , its a 3 on 1 off split (which is pretty common)

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

your lacking 75% of the information to think someone needs to be on lots of gear to do this split.

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its like assuming 100 rep sets is going to lead to over training and too much volume. well you can't assume that cause you don't have enough information. just cause a set is 100 reps doesn't mean a thing in the big picture

for one , volume is ... sets x reps x weight (not just reps)

so if you did 100 reps x 1 sets x 1 pound , thats only a volume total of 100. you really think thats going to lead to over training. , no.

but if your volume is 100 reps x 5 sets x 100 pounds, thats a volume total of 50,000. big difference.

so you need all the variables to even remotely make any assumptions about things like recovery or over training

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Originally Posted by Ronnoco

Sorry to jump in, are you super setting these?
For example, on quads, hams, calves are jumping from muscle group, working the same muscles with different movements or hanging at the same machine until done?

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Nope. Negative on the supersets. Legs are big muscles so I make sure I give them adequate rest between sets to recover properly and be able to go hard next set. Cant really do that supersetting...

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

Surely you’ll have to be on more than test plus a massive calorie surplus to pull this off. Growth comes with rest.
Unless I’m confused and you mean a 8 days split. Cause that rest day in the middle is confusing g it’s not 3 on 1 of its 6 on 1 off?
Which would mean Chest/back/cheats/back :/

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Ive been on a similar split hitting muscles 2x weekly with no gear, just like GH said that plan just outlines frequency. Intensity and volume, not to mention rest and nutrition all factor in

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

its like assuming 100 rep sets is going to lead to over training and too much volume. well you can't assume that cause you don't have enough information. just cause a set is 100 reps doesn't mean a thing in the big picture

for one , volume is ... sets x reps x weight (not just reps)

so if you did 100 reps x 1 sets x 1 pound , thats only a volume total of 100. you really think thats going to lead to over training. , no.

but if your volume is 100 reps x 5 sets x 100 pounds, thats a volume total of 50,000. big difference.

so you need all the variables to even remotely make any assumptions about things like recovery or over training

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Was there really a need for this hypertherical! Why are you so offended...
I asked if you mean a 8 day split 3 on 1 off, a simple yes would do.
You make it sound like its a 7 day split with a day of in the middle, which is 6 on 1 off which would mean back/chest/back/chest/back/chest. regardless of intensity/volume this would be a laughable program.

Let’s just leave it there and not sidetrack the op’s question. I was just curious!

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

Was there really a need for this hypertherical! Why are you so offended...
I asked if you mean a 8 day split 3 on 1 off, a simple yes would do.
You make it sound like its a 7 day split with a day of in the middle, which is 6 on 1 off which would mean back/chest/back/chest/back/chest. regardless of intensity/volume this would be a laughable program.

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umm, I specifically said its 3 days on 1 day off . so I'm not "making it sound" like anything other then what I specifically said it was.
just because your mind happens to not be able to think outside the box of a 7 day Sun-Saturday week doesn't mean this split (which mentions no days of the week) is based on that.

perhaps the reason I sounded "offended" , which I wasn't, perhaps just perturbed because someone with very little understanding of programming jumps into the middle of this thread and brings a bunch of mis informed assumptions . your assumptions are ridiculous and ignorant and your idea about something you know nothing about and calling it a "laughable program'', when I have written hundreds of programs and do so for a living, is what is in fact laughable.

if your 'curious' , then try spending a couple years just studying the fundamentals of exercise programming and then come back and ask your question without your ridiculous and ignorant assumptions

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

umm, I specifically said its 3 days on 1 day off

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Ummm actually what you specifically said was

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

want even more frequency ..heres what a high frequency split would look like

- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (low rep)
rest
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (low rep)
- chest, delts, triceps, quads (high rep)
- back, traps, biceps, hamstrings calves (high rep)

everything is hit 3x per week.

I've found this type of split works extremely well for women, or for guys that have super high recovery rates

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How many days is it in a week again, 8 yeah!!!

Even this for someone clean is a fucking joke, I hope people donÂ’t actually pay you for your ridiculousness

IÂ’ve worked shifts for as long as I remember so a typical Mon-sun yeah right lol. A weird attempt at an insult. You sound like a English teacher ffs, keyboard warrior throwing out insults trying to sound like the smartest person here.

Oh and I’ve Been training for ten years...

“for guys that have super high recovery rates” aka for guys running cocktails....

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

Ummm actually what you specifically said was




How many days is it in a week again, 8 yeah!!!

Even this for someone clean is a fucking joke, I hope people donÂ’t actually pay you for your ridiculousness

IÂ’ve worked shifts for as long as I remember so a typical Mon-sun yeah right lol. A weird attempt at an insult. You sound like a English teacher ffs, keyboard warrior throwing out insults trying to sound like the smartest person here.

Oh and I’ve Been training for ten years...

“for guys that have super high recovery rates” aka for guys running cocktails....

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its obvious you can't read or comprehend on top of having ignorant assumptions . if anyones the keyboard warrior here its you. you should probably just move along now and go make more ridiculous comments on you tube videos

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

Even this for someone clean is a fucking joke, I hope people donÂ’t actually pay you for your ridiculousness .

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a 3 day on, 1 day off, then repeat split that hits multiple body parts in a single session is a "fucking joke" .. you thinking so just proves your absolute ignorance regarding the subject matter at hand. you have no clue what your talking about.

your probably one of these fools that thinks that full body split training is over training or requires a shit ton of juice too .. lol, meanwhile I have 70 year old women on full body splits that are doing tremendous.

you need to get out of you moms basement and in the trenches so you can learn what works in the real world. what you read in flex magazine is there to sell you supplements, nothing more

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

a 3 day on, 1 day off, then repeat split that hits multiple body parts in a single session is a "fucking joke" .. you thinking so just proves your absolute ignorance regarding the subject matter at hand. you have no clue what your talking about.

your probably one of these fools that thinks that full body split training is over training or requires a shit ton of juice too .. lol, meanwhile I have 70 year old women on full body splits that are doing tremendous.

you need to get out of you moms basement and in the trenches so you can learn what works in the real world. what you read in flex magazine is there to sell you supplements, nothing more

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I bet your the fat guy in the gym with no clients cause you convince oaps to hit the same muscle three times a week.

You may have a good grasp of the English language but you defo printed PT on your own T-shirt you Fucking ridiculous guy.

Attachment 175389

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Originally Posted by Littlearnie

I bet your the fat guy in the gym with no clients cause you convince oaps to hit the same muscle three times a week.

You may have a good grasp of the English language but you defo printed PT on your own T-shirt you Fucking ridiculous guy.

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lol. Umm, I'm actually the guy that owns the gym (not a part time hourly wage personal trainer)
have more clients then I can handle and have to pass many on to my wife and other trainers that work for me , yet I still over see everyones programming.
and if you wonder if my physique at least looks the part of a trainer, let alone the owner of an 800 member gym, and someone who's been involved in fitness for over 2 decades. I guess scan these forums and look for pics I've posted of myself if your so inclined.
not that it matters. people in the know around here know I get people results. you have 18 posts to your name and most of those are an attempt at trying to discredit me for some reason (I'm sure people reading this thread can discern who the "ridiculous guy'' really is here)

it depends it has its cons and pros, you can burn out quickly too depending on how good your recovery is.. i think personally once a week is perfect for the natural bodybuilder aslong as they push there muscles to the limits



Tutuapp 9apps Showbox

I'm still hitting the same muscle groups twice a week and it works for me
Mon- Shoulders/chest
Tue Legs/Back
Wed or thur - Chest/abs
Fri - Leg/back

It works for me
I'll go heavy one day on legs/back and in a few days similar variation for the squat/dead lift but lighter weight %
5/3/1 http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

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Originally Posted by nateboussad

it depends it has its cons and pros, you can burn out quickly too depending on how good your recovery is.. i think personally once a week is perfect for the natural bodybuilder aslong as they push there muscles to the limits

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My recovery problem when hitting twice a week is usually legs/back depending on how heavy i went on the max effort lift day

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Originally Posted by cylon357

I do similar. 5/3/1 is great in it's simplicity and opportunities for customization.

I have hit body parts 2x week natty and that's with 4x week lifting. My routine at those times looks a lot like this:

Sun - Squat day (with some back assistance work thrown in like chins or barbell rows, etc)
Tue - Bench day (with some light shoulder work)
Thu - Deadlift day (with some leg presses or front squats)
Fri - Overhead press (with chest work included - dips, incline press, whatever I feel like)

Biceps are worked on Sun and Thu, triceps on Tue and Fri. Depending on my goals, I might throw in a finisher (like sprints, box jumps, whatever the heck I feel like that gets me huffin' and puffin').

That volume might not be enough when on cycle, I can't really speak to that. Also, yeah, it IS a bit more strength / PL oriented so again, maybe not the best for size. Vary the reps and maybe swap some exercises in as appropriate.

Edit: After I started typing my response, I saw where EDCG19 had posted almost the same information without all the blah blah blah I added. Consider this another response in favor of 5/3/1.

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I like 531 but I'm getting bored with it tbh
I want to try something like GVT and give that a run for a few weeks

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Originally Posted by EDCG19

I like 531 but I'm getting bored with it tbh
I want to try something like GVT and give that a run for a few weeks

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If your on 5/3/1 now, perhaps you may like the West Side Barbell approach. The guy is a genius. He trains his people for setting records, like Mark Rippletoe's 5/3/1, so they differently reach the same point.

GH,
I can see why we grow upset when people argue with you, especially in that way. You are a great contributor and advancer of knowledge.
Thank You.

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Originally Posted by Quester

If your on 5/3/1 now, perhaps you may like the West Side Barbell approach. The guy is a genius. He trains his people for setting records, like Mark Rippletoe's 5/3/1, so they differently reach the same point.

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Mark ripptoes 5/3/1?? I haven't heard of that at all
You mean starting strength? That isn't the same as 5/3/1

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Originally Posted by cylon357

Yeah, 5/3/1 can be kind of a grind if you keep it up for too long. I think it is just a great example of simple programming that works well for 2x week bodypart training. I like to vary my training over the course of months or weeks, too, just to keep from getting stale. That's part of the fun of the Iron Game!

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Hey, I found this the other day so I'm switching my program up to try this out. I'm starting this with the 5 day a week based training cycle so idk right now but if i can handle the volume i'll run this all year
I just heard about it and found this program interesting so i'm running this going forward unless this volume is really too much for me I'll back down to 4 day splits which im doing currently

https://liftvault.com/programs/power...-spreadsheets/
Attachment 175852

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Originally Posted by cylon357

I will have to take a peek at that calculator. I'm not a fan of having squat day and deadlift day that close together but it could probably be swapped around.

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Kind of an update so far. I've been running this program for two weeks now and I honestly don't know yet if it is for me at all
I have squat/dead day and than two days later I'm struggling on bench/chest day
Either my calories/food is just not enough for this program or I need to lower my weight/volume that this program calls for. At the moment running this program with my own accessory work and sometimes fasting/not eating enough for weight loss just is beating me to hell and the other day I have a horrible training session where I have practically no strength at all. I hit a PR on squat, a new high rep PR on bench the other week and now all of the sudden no strength at all

Could be food but I think its the program with the heavier weight/volume im doing
I can do the standard 5/3/1 and it seems to work just fine than I try this program and my weights/volume is all over the place and I'm losing strength..

Starting to think maybe that program on a three day split would work better than a four day split. I've been hitting heavier and heavier weights weekly, now it might be time to deload or completely not touch the iron for a week