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  1. #1
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Questions for the educated masses

    Before anyone comments on the questions that I will raise here shortly, I have done several searches but like to see what the current thinking on certain issues is and of course every person situation is specific. That being said....what do you guys think of the following.

    This will be a long one so brace yourself.

    I am currently 6'5 at about 235 lbs and probably about 10% BF. I have lifted on and off for a decent amount of time and am currently 28. I am not a newbie and I think that my body is certainly capable of sustaining a cycle. I know that I have not reached my genetic potential yet through natural training and I will attempt to take my training to the next level here over the next 6 months or so. The cycle questions I will raise will be in regards to a possible winter cycle that I will explore.

    Being that this is going to be my first cycle, I was thinking of the following.

    D-Bol 25-50mgs for weeks 1-3

    Test 400-500mgs for weeks 1-8 (not sure on what to run here...make suggestions....enanthate , sust, cyp, etc.)
    Equipoise sp? 400-500mgs for weeks 1-8 (I was leaning towards this instead of Deca because people seem to like this just as well and appetite is ravenous while using this)
    Above injections would be twice a week to keep serum levels stabilized

    Test Prop 200mgs EOD for weeks 8-10

    L-dex ED (not sure on dosing here)
    3-5 days following last test prop shot would start clomid 300/100/50 3 weeks total

    My ulitmate goal with obvious virgin receptors is to put on as much quality weight as possible and keep it on. I wanted to attempt to start by PCT as soon after the cessation of my injections and that is why I was considering switching to the shorter acting ester in Prop. If I recall correctly, prop is like 2 days half life of something.

    I am going to save and prepare immensely for this cycle because I want it to be a huge gainer. What else would you guys recommend....Var at the end as well maybe...?

    Also, I am slightly prone to gyno so what should I use for protection...L-dex at what dose? Should I include some Nolvadex as well and I have heard that Letrazole is super effective as well. Is Letrazole an anti-estrogen or anti-aromatase? Should I use both?

    Lastly, I do not think that I am at all prone to Male pattern baldness, however, I want to avoid any loss that I can. I have heard about Finasteride blocks DHT conversion but DHT is now being considered somewhat anabolic as well and if I am not susceptable then should I just stick to nixoral shampoo and maybe some saw palmetto?

    Also, are the above AAS really that hard on the hair anyway? What is the best way to just have a safety net against hairloss for a guy that probably will not really go bald. Grandfather had his hair till he died really (Mom's side).

    I am constantly reading so I appreciate all the info on the board. I was just really wanting to jump start my research.

  2. #2
    Krunchtime's Avatar
    Krunchtime is offline Senior Member
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    You will see the best results from eq if you run it 1-12 @400mgs a week
    Test E and cyp would be pretty good options for you
    and as far as nolva.. yes you need it and clomid of course

  3. #3
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchtime
    You will see the best results from eq if you run it 1-12 @400mgs a week
    Test E and cyp would be pretty good options for you
    and as far as nolva.. yes you need it and clomid of course
    Okay, that being said about the test and Eq, I would consider running them for like 10 weeks and then switchting to Prop for weeks 10-12 but I am still stuck on the idea of being able to start by PCT very soon after my last shot. I want to jump start my nuts as soon as possible. I have heard about running var in the meantime between the last shot and PCT but I have also heard that Var over a dose of like 25mgs still shuts down HPTA.

    Clomid I will have.

    As far as anti-E or anti-A...what is the best that people are using out there. L-Dex was the sh*t when it came out but no I hear people talking about Letrazole as well like it might be better.

  4. #4
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    -dbol for at least 4 weeks - I would start with 30mg then move up if you feel you need too.
    -I would recomend running your EQ 100mg less than the Test for your first cycle so in this case run it at 400mg, also stop the EQ one week before ending the Test, this way you will end together when you start PCT>
    -first cycle do not worry about prop just run Test E or Test cyp at 500mg for 10-12 weeks
    -Run ldex at .25mg everyday
    -Run clomid 2 weeks after last Test E or Test Cyp injection.
    -Since you are prone to gyno you could also run 10mg nolvades everyday throughout the cycle then bump it up to 20mg during PCT.
    -if you are not proned to hairloss do not worry about it, this is a mild cycle and will not be hard on the hairline.
    Last edited by LightWeightBaby; 07-07-2004 at 12:04 AM.

  5. #5
    SKiN is offline Member
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    If you want to begin PCT as soon as possible by takin prop for the last two weeks then you would only have 2 days to run var.... A good cycle would be....

    Test E 500mg 1-11wk
    Eq 400mg 1-12wk
    Prop 75mg ED 12-13wk
    Nolva 1-pct
    Pct ect ect

  6. #6
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks for the response. Is there any benefit just to keep a safety net of sorts to shampooing with that nizoral stuff just to keep DHT levels in the scalp down?

    Also, I am not a big fan of needles but I would be willing to run the test prop at the end if you think that it would allow me to keep more of my gains.

    If I stop the Eq one week early, should I slightly increase the test dosage during that week to make up for the lack of Eq?

    I had not heard of running nolvadex through PCT...is that new or just to keep the remaining test that is floating around at bay so there is no rebound gyno...?

  7. #7
    SKiN is offline Member
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    Yes i am going to be doing the same thing... its more just much easier on you... lets you start getting your own test production much sooner.

    You do not need to bump up the test, you need to stop the EQ one week earlier so it is gone by the time PCT rolls around.

    Keeping the nolva is not really new and is a precautionary measure, it will also help some with the excess water...

  8. #8
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToughGuy13
    If you want to begin PCT as soon as possible by takin prop for the last two weeks then you would only have 2 days to run var.... A good cycle would be....

    Test E 500mg 1-11wk
    Eq 400mg 1-12wk
    Prop 75mg ED 12-13wk
    Nolva 1-pct
    Pct ect ect
    He has brought up a great newbie cycle. just one draw back you will be shooting prop ED for 2 weeks... Some people dont like to shoot that much. Plus most of the time prop hurts a lot. Im not trying to scare you away as the cycle would be wonderful, just making sure you see the whole picture

  9. #9
    Krunchtime's Avatar
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    Id run the nolva just to be safe.. even if its only 10mg a day

  10. #10
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchblack
    I had not heard of running nolvadex through PCT...is that new or just to keep the remaining test that is floating around at bay so there is no rebound gyno...?
    If it were me Id run it a week past clomid...

  11. #11
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    great info so far guys. Thanks as always. I am a little needle shy but if I can keep more...I can stomach it. I will just get on spot injections and have my buddy turn me into a pin cushion. Can you run Prop EOD at double the dose or does it really have to be run at an ED schedule.


    Also, should I take L-Dex and nolv throughout or one or the other.

    Also, anybody using Letrazole at this point and how do you like it vs. L-Dex...?

  12. #12
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchblack
    great info so far guys. Thanks as always. I am a little needle shy but if I can keep more...I can stomach it. I will just get on spot injections and have my buddy turn me into a pin cushion. Can you run Prop EOD at double the dose or does it really have to be run at an ED schedule.


    Also, should I take L-Dex and nolv throughout or one or the other.

    Also, anybody using Letrazole at this point and how do you like it vs. L-Dex...?
    FWIW I use prop EOD for my first cycle... and gained some serious weight. Now Im using prop ED and can tell a big dlfference. So try to shoot ED. try delts, qauds, gluets, thats six days. Its what I use, with the occasional lat and chest inject just because Im bored

  13. #13
    SKiN is offline Member
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    Ya you can shoot 125mg EOD...

    You can take L.dex but IMO its a waste for that cycle unless you have a big prob with bloat...

  14. #14
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Ouch...what is the smallest you can run Prop through....25g..?

  15. #15
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchblack
    Ouch...what is the smallest you can run Prop through....25g..?
    I use 25g for everything. Also learn to shoot in those places with your other test. so that way you will be ready to do prop. Dont always shoot gluets because its easy.

  16. #16
    SKiN is offline Member
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    Ya its not a big deal really... After your first shot you will prob be like **** thats it... I was..

    And I gotta give you some props for doin some reasearch and takin your time to plan out a good cycle... Most first cycle posts are absolutely retarded...

    Also if you wanted to throw in some Dbol at around 30mg for the first 4 weeks... It will give you a nice boost till the test and EQ kick in...

  17. #17
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    any benefits to running an anti-E (nolv) and an anti-A (L-Dex, L-Fem) at the same time during that cycle. I want to keep the water off and look clean throughout. I will be eating clean as well.

    What would be the dosing on those two for that amount of test and Eq.

    Lastly, before I go to bed...am I wrong to want to run Eq instead of Deca . I have heard guys rave about Eq and want to give it a shot.

  18. #18
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToughGuy13
    Ya its not a big deal really... After your first shot you will prob be like **** thats it... I was..

    And I gotta give you some props for doin some reasearch and takin your time to plan out a good cycle... Most first cycle posts are absolutely retarded...

    Also if you wanted to throw in some Dbol at around 30mg for the first 4 weeks... It will give you a nice boost till the test and EQ kick in...
    Thanks man. I figured that anything worth doing is worth doing right. I have seen too many guys in the gym blow up and get bloated and shrink up like little idiots....not for me. I want to keep at least like 75-80% and I think that is completely doable if I really am strict and run sh*t right.

    On the Dbol , I was definately considering it (reference first post). Any buddy running Var to start instead. I am not really concerned about cost of the cycle...just want it to be a world beater for my de-virginization one.

  19. #19
    SKiN is offline Member
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    Run Nolva 10mg throughout and L.dex at .25mg.

    No Eq kicks ass too... more than Deca imo...

  20. #20
    SKiN is offline Member
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    No i havent really seen anyone kickstart a cycle with Var... I would just stick with Dbol ...

  21. #21
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    I hear EQ works great never tried it... or deca for that matter. FWIW 14 weeks of EQ I hear is wonderful. So if you can run it for a long ass time. Its grow time!

  22. #22
    SKiN is offline Member
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    Your proposed cycle is what i just started a week ago...

    Test E 500mg
    Eq 400mg
    Dbol 25 mg 1-4 weeks
    Prop 75mg ED last 2 weeks
    Nolva 10mg throughout
    Pct

  23. #23
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToughGuy13
    Your proposed cycle is what i just started a week ago...

    Test E 500mg
    Eq 400mg
    Dbol 25 mg 1-4 weeks
    Prop 75mg ED last 2 weeks
    Nolva 10mg throughout
    Pct
    Looks good. I was considering running the Deca /Eq split at 200/200 to keep the joint pain at bay that I hear some board members struggling with while on the Eq.

    Let me know how that cycle shakes out for you.

  24. #24
    hatchblack is offline Associate Member
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    anybody got any comments on the var question...?

    Frontloading on the prop instead of dbol ....?

    and the deca /Eq split to keep joint pain at bay....?

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