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  1. #1
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Unhappy Low testosterone

    My numbers:
    My Free Testosterone: 4.3
    Total testosterone - morning sample (nanograms per deciliter or nano-moles per liter) 270 –1070 ng/dl
    (9.36 –37.10 nmol/L)
    Free testosterone - morning sample (picrograms per milliliter or pico-moles per liter) 20 –40 yr 15.0 –40.0 pg/ml (520 –1387 pmol/L)
    41 –60 yr 13.0 –35.0 pg/ml (451 –1213 pmol/L)

    My Serum Test: 76
    Reference range: 241 to 827
    unit: ng/dL

    My ANDR: 36 (low, not sure on units or avr range)
    My DHEA: 117
    Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) (nanograms per deciliter or nano-moles per liter) 180 –1250 ng/dl
    ( 6.24 –43.3 nmol/L)

    Now my estradiol, LH, prolactin, TSH are all fine. But obviously high in relation to my test levels. I take 1-2mg of finasteride every day. I have been away from AAS for over a year now. Right now i am trying to figure out why my levels are so low. Is it something possibly wrong with my feedback loop? My finasteride(& to what extent)?

    I am planning on seeing an endocrinologist asap. But wow, i just am shocked on how shiity my levels really are! I mean, i would assume i would be a depressed, and definately not an arrogant prick on paper . What is the deal?

  2. #2
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    I'll first just cut and paste what I wrote at MS, so I don't have to rehash it:

    If your estradiol is normal and your total test is low, your free test will likely be low too. If LH and FSH are in range and serum test is still low, that tells me that the leydig cells weren't (or aren't) fully "primed" before pct started (via HCG ).

    resistance training itself causes test spikes, but be very careful of overtraining at this point.

    If you've just come off of tren or deca , that could explain the increased wbc count. I haven't seen that in my own bloodwork, but some others have. If the doc didn't do a differential after seeing the elevated wbc count, i wouldn't worry.

    If you're still doing pct, I'd add a low dose AI if you haven't already.






    finasteride lowering DHT will also cause an increased SHBG level (or rather due to the LACK of DHT, a strong androgen), which will further lower free test, but should have little effects on total test.

    If you've been off awhile and have normal gonadotropin levels but still low test, I'd hop on HCG to hyperstimulate the testes (leydig cells)....are they back to normal size (normal for you, that is)?





    having low andro, DHEA and total test (and free test) are all indicative of hypoactive leydig cells, since your LH levels are normal.
    Where within normal ranges is your estradiol? High normal?


    At this point, HCG would be the best option IMO. Your LH levels are normal, but hyperstimulating them in hopes of getting the Leydig cells fully functioning again is what you need to do.

  3. #3
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Estradiol is 48, and the range should just be somewhere below 54pg/ml. so, yes i guess it is high/normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 956Vette
    Estradiol is 48, and the range should just be somewhere below 54pg/ml. so, yes i guess it is high/normal.
    So, your estradiol is a bit high and test is low. That's not the whole story at all, because your andro and DHEA levels being low still says the Leydig cells aren't doing their job. However, what little test you are producing is being aromatized at a higher than normal rate, which is lowering total test and free test even more.

    I'd say HCG with a low dose AI would be your best bet, possibly followed again by clomid, but the clomid probably won't be necessary, depending on how short of period you use the HCG, as gonadotropin levels aren't your problem

  5. #5
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein1905
    So, your estradiol is a bit high and test is low. That's not the whole story at all, because your andro and DHEA levels being low still says the Leydig cells aren't doing their job. However, what little test you are producing is being aromatized at a higher than normal rate, which is lowering total test and free test even more.

    I'd say HCG with a low dose AI would be your best bet, possibly followed again by clomid, but the clomid probably won't be necessary, depending on how short of period you use the HCG, as gonadotropin levels aren't your problem
    Planning on rounding up some hcg asap. But i do have some femara layin around. What would be an appropriate dose in your opinion? .75mg EOD or so? And what about hcg? 500ius E3-4days?

  6. #6
    bluethunder is offline Anabolic Member
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    Sounds like primary hypogonadism. There is a possibilty the HCG will do nothing if you have testicular failure. I would seek a specialist IMO. Good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by 956Vette
    Planning on rounding up some hcg asap. But i do have some femara layin around. What would be an appropriate dose in your opinion? .75mg EOD or so? And what about hcg? 500ius E3-4days?
    If you're using femara, i'd probably start it 2 weeks prior to getting on the HCG , because of its long half-life. As low as 1mg E3D would probably be fine. You obviously don't want to go too low, but you'll also be elevating test levels via HCG too, so you'll want to dose accordingly for that too. You can always add nolva in there too to offset the potential of too much AI. 500IU as frequently as EoD for ...I don't know how long. It's really hard to say. You said teste size may not be normal. I'd say 14-21 days at 500IU EOD. i'd be curious to hear what the endo says, but there really isn't anything more advanced than what we already do.

  9. #9
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    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    This is some good info.... wish I could post on MS.... This reminds me that I need to get my blood done too.
    Vette you didnt tell your priamary doc about your AAS usage did you?

  10. #10
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    Vette you didnt tell your priamary doc about your AAS usage did you?
    Absolutely not. simply told him that i had not taken any supplements for a long time, and have not worked out (excessively) for about 6 months.-which is true.

  11. #11
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    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    ahh good call.... I was wondering about that. I am afraid if I told mine he would flip out... and let us know how you respond to the femara and the HCG

  12. #12
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    ahh good call.... I was wondering about that. I am afraid if I told mine he would flip out... and let us know how you respond to the femara and the HCG
    First thing im going to do is get with my endocrinololgist, from there, i will evaluate what i should do. I also want to get my bloodwork done again, just to make sure.... But i will definately keep things posted

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    I know you like to drink...and at times take some pain meds,or some other type of seditive.I know alcohol suppresses test output.You think this could possibly be part of the problem?

  14. #14
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    I know you like to drink...and at times take some pain meds,or some other type of seditive.I know alcohol suppresses test output.You think this could possibly be part of the problem?
    I thought this could be part of the equation. But there is no way that it could have had that significant of an impact imo. Prior to this bloodwork i had, i had not had a drink or even a sleeping med for a week or so. And i was drinking moderate to heavily for about all of may and june (with no drugs). Before that, i have commonly used benzos such as vals or klons moderately maybe 1-2x/wk sometimes combined with alcohol. I do not like to take pain meds in any form. I dont like to even take asprin or tylenol. I have had a script for the benzos for anxiety, so i have never felt i really abuse them.-I feel i can responsibly self medicate myself with those, and i personally do not have issues with addiction. But in any event, i believe i feel the same as i did six months ago.-Which is good, healthy, active, etc, and this is all strange in reguards to my #s.

    There are so many variables that can effect one's testosterone levels to a certain extent(sleep, diet, drinking, meds, training, etc), but i dont see any reason in particular for all my levels to be this low. I havent even graduated college yet (yes, i could be on the five yr plan )

  15. #15
    bluethunder is offline Anabolic Member
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    Keep us posted 956. I am interested to see what the endo came up with. And yea they are very low readings.

  16. #16
    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluethunder
    Keep us posted 956. I am interested to see what the endo came up with. And yea they are very low readings.
    I will definately follow up. ****, it is tough to get into the endo. The doc has to be faxed my info, and decide whether i am an urgent case or not in order to get an appt - Wish i was in Dallas or Houston now!


    For now, i guess my training is just going to consist of a half-ass chest/back and cardio day today Overtraining would be pretty easily done it seems.

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