Anabolics
Search More Than 6,000,000 Posts
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: clen ?

  1. #1
    bulldawg_28's Avatar
    bulldawg_28 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Do yoga not steroids!!!
    Posts
    1,439

    clen ?

    How does the strength of clen compare to ephedra? Because honestly I don't feel **** off ephedra anymore. Also can you take the 5 grams of taurine all in the morning, or do you have to take it spread out throughout the day?

  2. #2
    slizzut's Avatar
    slizzut is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,881
    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg_28
    How does the strength of clen compare to ephedra? Because honestly I don't feel **** off ephedra anymore. Also can you take the 5 grams of taurine all in the morning, or do you have to take it spread out throughout the day?

    Its much stronger then Ephedrine and is proven to be anti-catabolic. You can take all of the taurine at one time, but don't forget the potassium! Hope that helps, good luck bro.

  3. #3
    bulldawg_28's Avatar
    bulldawg_28 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Do yoga not steroids!!!
    Posts
    1,439
    Quote Originally Posted by slizzut
    Its much stronger then Ephedrine and is proven to be anti-catabolic. You can take all of the taurine at one time, but don't forget the potassium! Hope that helps, good luck bro.
    Thanks bro. Btw is it possible to actually gain strength while on clen ? If there's anything else that I can do to avoid sides then please let me know, cuz I'm starting a clen cycle tomorrow!

  4. #4
    durkheim's Avatar
    durkheim is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    74
    Clen isnt actually anti-catabolic.. not for humans anyway. That myth orginated from animal trials, humans dont have the type 3 muscle fibres which clen has an anti-catabolic effect on.

    Taurine also reduces T3 while on clen so I'd recommend just potassium supplementation

    D

  5. #5
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    5,223
    Erm...
    It is my understanding that clen depletes taurine which is needed for the conversion of T4 to T3, by supplementing with taurine while on clen you are making sure that the conversion still occurs and T3 levels do not drop off.

    I too start a clen cycle on monday at the same time as IGF, all part of the search for the fabled 'Lost abs of NotSmallia'!

  6. #6
    durkheim's Avatar
    durkheim is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall
    Erm...
    It is my understanding that clen depletes taurine which is needed for the conversion of T4 to T3, by supplementing with taurine while on clen you are making sure that the conversion still occurs and T3 levels do not drop off.

    I too start a clen cycle on monday at the same time as IGF, all part of the search for the fabled 'Lost abs of NotSmallia'!

    It was written by Big Cat from Bodybuilding.com:

    "It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other. I assume there must be some truth to the rumour or people wouldn't be doing it. Then again...

    Regardless however, supplementing extra taurine during a diet is not advisable. It is indeed true that beta-adrenergic agonists like clenbuterol and ephedrine will reduce taurine levels, no question about it. But did anyone ever stop to think that maybe this has a reason? Your protein intake should stay the same, roughly, which means that these compounds are actively reducing taurine levels.

    If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone , noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea.

    This lowers the threshold at which glycogen is stored again. This will increase chance of gaining fat during cheat days due to enhanced sensitivity of fat cells to insulin, and limit fat lost on dieting days since the extra stored glycogen will have to be burned again before you start burning fat again.

    This is however the least of your concerns. Taurine is also known to reduce Thyroid levels. Studies have demonstrated that a high platelet level of taurine will reduce T3:T4 ratio in men. This would slow down your metabolic rate, meaning you use less calories than you would otherwise. Obviously this will result in less fat lost for the same amount of calories eaten.

    Taurine may also reduce cAMP production in certain animals. The extrapolation in this case is a far fetch, but something I would like to see tested in humans. Since the cAMP acts as a second messenger in the process of lipolysis, the process of releasing fatty acids from their glycerol backbone, making them available for burning, this will reduce the amount of fat released and consequently the amount of fat burned.

    This all fits nicely into the picture that free form amino acids should not be frequently used on a diet. As with carbohydrates, quickly absorbed sources create higher peak levels that also decline faster. This almost always leads to a favourable situation for a lower metabolism.

    When dieting you will opt for carbohydrate sources that absorb slower, so they have less of an effect on factors influencing food intake. The same holds true for protein. You should opt for protein sources with a more anti-catabolic character, that release slower, such as casein. "

    Haber CA, Lam TK, Yu Z, Gupta N, Goh T, Bogdanovic E, Giacca A, Fantus IG. N-acetylcysteine and taurine prevent hyperglycemia-induced insulin resistance in vivo: possible role of oxidative stress. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Oct; 285(4): E744-53. Epub 2003 Jun 10.

    Baskin SI, Klekotka SJ, Kendrick ZV, Bartuska DG. Correlation of platelet taurine levels with thyroid function. J Endocrinol Invest. 1979 Jul-Sep; 2(3): 245-9.

    Hayakawa Y, Downer RG, Bodnaryk RP. Taurine inhibits octopamine-stimulated cAMP production.. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1987 Jun 15; 929(1): 117-20.

  7. #7
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    5,223
    This was taken from the clen handbook in the educational section:

    "Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
    levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
    Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
    cramps. It's a must with Clen."


    I'm not saying you're wrong but I've read a few questionable things that this Big Cat guy has written.
    Look at this paragraph for example:
    "If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea."

    He refers to increased insulin sensitivity from taurine and then says that effective fat loss aids work by lowering insulin resistance - surely increasing insulin sensitivity and lowering insulin resistance are the same thing, no? If taurine increases the insulin sensitivity of muscles this is undoubtedly a good thing as it means that more glucose is directed towards the muscles and away from fat stores.

    It's all very well that he quotes all of those studies at the bottom but that proves very little if he interprets them wrong.

  8. #8
    durkheim's Avatar
    durkheim is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall
    This was taken from the clen handbook in the educational section:

    "Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
    levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
    Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
    cramps. It's a must with Clen."


    I'm not saying you're wrong but I've read a few questionable things that this Big Cat guy has written.
    Look at this paragraph for example:
    "If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea."

    He refers to increased insulin sensitivity from taurine and then says that effective fat loss aids work by lowering insulin resistance - surely increasing insulin sensitivity and lowering insulin resistance are the same thing, no? If taurine increases the insulin sensitivity of muscles this is undoubtedly a good thing as it means that more glucose is directed towards the muscles and away from fat stores.

    It's all very well that he quotes all of those studies at the bottom but that proves very little if he interprets them wrong.
    I dont think you understand the concept of insulin sensitivity, by increasing sensitivity more glucose will be stored as glycogen - BUT this will also increase the amount of fat stored.

    The insulin issue aside, taurine supplementation does infact reduce thyroid T3:T4 levels - you can interpret the study yourself if you dont trust his judgement.

    Finally, from experience I can tell you I have lost more fat by not using taurine. My advice here is to either not use taurine at all, or use it but supplement with T3.

  9. #9
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    5,223
    Quote Originally Posted by durkheim
    I dont think you understand the concept of insulin sensitivity, by increasing sensitivity more glucose will be stored as glycogen - BUT this will also increase the amount of fat stored.

    The insulin issue aside, taurine supplementation does infact reduce thyroid T3:T4 levels - you can interpret the study yourself if you dont trust his judgement.

    Finally, from experience I can tell you I have lost more fat by not using taurine. My advice here is to either not use taurine at all, or use it but supplement with T3.
    You're right, I don't fully understand insulin sensitivity but it just seems logical to me that increasing sensitivity is the same as reducing resistance, no?
    Also certain substances, ie chromium, fish oils, are used for weight loss because they increase insulin sensitivity in muscles therefore the body produces less insulin which means less is available to contribute to fat stores.

    When I use clen I often use it with T4 which as we know needs to be converted into T3 to be effective. I was only going by information from this board that has always lead me to believe that a taurine deficeincy caused by the clen would reduce the conversion from T4 to T3, so I use taurine. If you have information to the contrary please share it.

  10. #10
    angelxterminator's Avatar
    angelxterminator is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Al Asad, Iraq
    Posts
    1,703
    "It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other.

    Read one of the first things he says. He openly admits that he does not know if it is beneficial or not. He only states the things HE believes to be detrimental to the dieter, with no evidence to back it up!

  11. #11
    bulldawg_28's Avatar
    bulldawg_28 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Do yoga not steroids!!!
    Posts
    1,439
    Ok, so is the taurine a waist then? Would just the potassium help with cramps?

  12. #12
    durkheim's Avatar
    durkheim is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by angelxterminator
    "It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other.

    Read one of the first things he says. He openly admits that he does not know if it is beneficial or not. He only states the things HE believes to be detrimental to the dieter, with no evidence to back it up!

    He said he didnt know if it decreased CRAMPING or not, if you cant read past the first few lines I dont think you should post your uneducated opinion.




    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall
    If you have information to the contrary please share it.

    Here you go:

    Baskin SI, Klekotka SJ, Kendrick ZV, Bartuska DG. Correlation of platelet taurine levels with thyroid function. J Endocrinol Invest. 1979 Jul-Sep; 2(3): 245-9.

  13. #13
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    5,223
    Umm...
    Thats a lovely title of a study - where is the information?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •