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  1. #1
    BigGenes's Avatar
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    Mallet, please read!

    I read this on another forum and it contradicts what you say about T3 doses and says close to nothing about T3 PCT. I am somewhat confused and hope that you could enlighten me on this subject. I have read this form of doseing several times on other forums. Let me know what you think bro.

    I do not take full credit for the information in this post. I found it on the net and thought it would be very usefull here.

    T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It's a
    very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural
    hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable.
    The potential for complications is very high, and
    abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid
    output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but
    also later in life.

    There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a
    medical setting. There is only "safer" use. Use at
    your own risk.

    Introduction: What is T3 and what are the side
    effects?

    This article is pushing 2000 words, so here's a link
    for anyone who's interested:
    http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html

    What about T4?

    Bodybuilders should not use T4. It's a much weaker
    drug designed for long term use in patients with
    chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to
    25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support;
    however, this does not translate to equal weight loss
    benefits. It has made itself on sources' lists simply
    because it is widely available and extremely cheap.

    Is T3 catabolic?

    It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT
    catabolic per se. Corticosteroids are catabolic drugs
    that attack muscle tissue directly; T3 does not. It is
    a very potent calorie burner and it does not
    discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat.
    Unlike DNP , it has no protein sparing properties. T3
    is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean
    users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any
    extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as
    starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).

    Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic
    agents. T3's alleged catabolic properties have become
    legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg),
    will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and
    since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it's easy to see
    why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The
    average bodybuilder will not need several grams of
    steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is
    no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond
    this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive
    doses of steroids need to be used to counter the
    muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal,
    if any additional benefits.

    I think I've lost 20 lbs of muscle!

    T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look
    and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme
    glycogen depletion can have a very profound
    psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels
    and looks like muscle loss when it's simply a lack of
    muscle "pump" because of restricted blood flow to that
    area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles.
    Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this
    problem. "Pumping up" (or training for that matter)
    brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary
    albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain
    steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because
    these drugs tend to "harden up" users by bringing more
    blood into to the muscles.


    Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?

    This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be
    flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered
    (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee.
    Those who don't know what that last statement entails
    should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug
    and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to
    the game or do not have a deep understanding of how
    there bodies react to certain foods and training
    philosophies.

    T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol
    without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people
    (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since
    these people will generally return to overeating upon
    discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up
    with more weight than they started with.


    How should I eat on T3?

    Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight.
    The majority of protein should come from lean meats.
    Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied
    on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose
    and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction
    should come from carbs and fat only.


    What is T3 used for?

    Fat-loss: The main use for T3.

    Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but
    this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg
    do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this
    dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the
    fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles
    are full and rock hard, and energy is through the
    roof. At these light doses, it's common for people to
    go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there
    bodies are making more efficient use of the food they
    eat.

    Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?


    Simply put, NO, it can't happen. Natural thyroid
    production will be completely shutdown for a good
    period of time after using T3, but it will eventually
    recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the
    Testosterone website:

    N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
    Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after
    withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
    Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI,
    Ingbar SH.

    The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in
    seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of
    long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of
    thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine,
    tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and
    the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During
    exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was
    suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations
    before and after administration of
    thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
    After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin
    secretory function was transiently impaired, as
    indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin
    concentrations together with absence of response to
    thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by
    normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and
    normal responses to releasing hormone while serum
    thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were
    subnormal.
    Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to
    five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin
    (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l
    uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three
    weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to
    normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

    Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly
    and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to
    6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It's also very important
    to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have
    an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e.
    Clen , Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…

    Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some
    cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least
    20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g
    a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness
    is debatable.

    Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower
    protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce
    back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a
    good idea following a T3 cycle. This study
    demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for
    normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to
    think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there
    are far better carb choices that won't make you look
    like the Michelin Man.)

    Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone
    metabolism during overnutrition.
    Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger
    AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

    Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone
    concentrations have been found in studies of long-term
    (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In
    these studies of weight gain in normal weight
    volunteers, increased calories were required to
    maintain weight after gain over and above that
    predicted from their increased size. This was
    associated with increased concentrations of
    triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric
    requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3
    was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In
    studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum
    concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were
    increased, resulting in a marked increase in the
    production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition
    of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0
    +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein
    31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg).
    Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding
    (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg).
    It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced
    alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are
    responsible for the simultaneously increased
    expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore
    might represent an important physiological adaptation
    in times of caloric affluence. During the
    weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding
    studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when
    carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in
    the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral
    concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during
    fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree,
    with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in
    carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these
    studies that the caloric content as well as the
    composition of the diet, specifically, the
    carbohydrate content, can be important factors in
    regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid
    hormones.

    A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time
    when your diet really matters.

    So how do I cycle this stuff?

    T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle

    Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3.
    Its anti catabolic properties are unmatched and it
    will not shut you down. There's nothing like
    simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown;
    I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would
    be a good substitute since it doesn't shut you down.
    Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used
    but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3
    increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by
    500%! in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that
    covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on
    the same receptors; the combination with T3 would
    yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may
    be too much for the heart in some people.

    T3:

    12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)

    37.5mcg for 5 days
    75mcg for 15 days
    50mcg for 5 days
    37.5mcg for 5 days
    25mcg for 5 days
    12.5 mcg for 5 days
    6.25mcg for 5-7 days

    Clen:

    30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg
    dose to the last 25mcg dose. Ketotifen will make you
    more sensitive to clenbuterol so doses should be
    adjust accordingly.

    Ketotifen:

    Stacked with Clenbuterol, 2mg ED. This drug may not be
    an option for some people since it can make them
    extremely hungry. If this is the case, Clen should be
    used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

    Anavar:

    Oxandrin;

    15mg ED with 37.5mcg of T3,
    25mg ED with 75mcg of T3,
    20mg ED with 50mcg of T3.


    Here's a more sensitive approach that can be used
    between cycles since it doesn't include AS:

    BigAndy69's T3 Cycle:

    The cycle can actually be used to add muscle mass or
    drop body fat depending on caloric intake. For gaining
    muscle mass, the Yohimbine and Anastrozole are not
    necessary.

    W1-W4:

    T3: 12.5mg ED
    Clen: 60-100mcg ED
    Ketotifen: 2mg ED
    Anastrozole: 0.5mg ED
    Yohimbine: 10-15mg ED (maybe too much to handle in
    some)

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    20-30/50-60/20

    ALA: 1500mg ED
    Taurine: 3g ED

    W5:

    T3: 6.25mg ED

    L-Tyrosine: 1-2g ED
    ALA: 2500mg ED
    Taurine: 3g ED

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    50-60/20-30/20

    (High Intensity Cardio)

    W6:

    ALA: 1500mg ED

    Carb/Pro/Fat:

    40/40/20

    (High Intensity Cardio)


    BigAndy69's T3 Post Cycle Therapy (4-6 weeks):

    Initial 3 day carb up:

    Carbs: 1.75g X BW
    Protein: 0.75g X BW
    Fat: 0.25g X BW

    Supplements:

    L-Tyrosine: 1-3g ED
    ALA: 1500mg ED
    Flaxseed oil + Fish oil: 20g total ED

    Diet: >50% Carbs/ 30% Protein/ <20% Fat, calories at
    maintenance (+ or - 12 X BW)

    High intensity cardio: 75-80% of Max Heart Rate; 15-20
    min 3-4 times a week.

    No Steroids, Ephedrine, Clen, T2, DNP, or anything
    that has an effect on metabolism. Moderate doses of
    caffeine can be used before cardio.


    Anything Else I should know?

    T3 should be taken on an empty stomach, in the
    morning. If more than 50mcg is being taken, then it
    should be split through the day.

  2. #2
    Jeremy34's Avatar
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    BigGenes and I came across this earlier....I would really like some enlightenment on this subject as well.

  3. #3
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    Short answer:

    Some of what Mallet says is correct, some is incorrect. That holds true for this article as well.

  4. #4
    100%NATURAL-theGH's Avatar
    100%NATURAL-theGH is offline Senior Member
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    I wish that God would write a book on steroids and the like and publish it for us.... that way there would be no more guessing... theorizing... misleading.. or conflicting information available. I highly respect Mallet... the guy knows a ton about thyroid function but unfortunately all of us (including him) have to go off of information given to us from some lab that we never saw... so in the end we just make educated guesses at what SHOULD happen and dive right in.... **** I love being compulsive!

  5. #5
    BigGenes's Avatar
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    MALLET!!!!!! Dude repsond! lol. I want to hear his thoughts on this.

  6. #6
    BigGenes's Avatar
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    im going to keep bumping this Biotch until someone explains this shlt to me.

  7. #7
    BigGenes's Avatar
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    Mallet! bump! I pmed him too!

  8. #8
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    bump

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