newbie needs help

[sarge]

okay, first post
i'm a very hard gainer, very fast metab
5-8, 135. (yeah, i know....)

I do get some small gains, but over a very large period of time. worked a year in high school, got 15 pounds.
if i juice for a cycle or two, with lifting, of course, and then drop off the stuff, while continuing to lift, then will I keep the gains?
i'm in the army, and I do the "PT". I'm 4 points from maxing the test, but it's basically muscle tone and running. I get no mass from the workout. so, i'm beginning a weight regiment again in iraq, to continue when i get out of the army.
I just want to be able to see some initial mass gain, so I don't get frustrated with my metabolism and stop, like last time.

[sarge]

i know some of you are going to say, no, forget it, just stay natural and you'll see gains over time. to you folks, i reply that the reason steroids were developed was to help sick people. I figure that if i'm underweight, then i'm as sick as someone that is obese. i would like to use this stuff like some people use an antibiotic---they're sick, they take the antibiotic, their system becomes normal, no more antibiotics, just maintaining of a healthy state.
My question--is it possible to treat steroids this way?
My goal is to gain 30 pounds and be able to maintain it.

[SwoleCat]

Yikes. Well, seriously, you'll want to lay out what you've been eating on your days you train and don't train. There is no such thing as a hard-gainer, but there are faster metabolisms than some others. You just need an impeccable dietary approach that is carried out over many, many months/years. Using gear at 135 lbs. will not help. If you cannot gain weight naturally right now, gear is going to do NOTHING for you. Yes, you will lose whatever you do attain (which won't be jack if you don't gain now).

How can you expect to grow on gear when you can't grow w/out it? Diet is what makes you grow, nutrients, kcals, etc., not needles/bottles.

I'd focus on the diet for a very long time. Check out the diet forum here if you wish to have your approaches critiqued.

~SC~

[sarge]

wow, thanks for posting so quickly,
that's great that people are interested in helping

[SwoleCat]

*Just got your pm. Funny because I responded before I got your pm!!*

Really, you are not ready for AAS. Far from it.


~SC~

[sarge]

yes, I know what you mean about nutrition. I would be very stupid not to know that I have different nutrtion needs, I agree. I have found through time that the rule of one gram of protein per pound of body weight really helps, plus creatine. But, I also realize that the creatine is just water. It seems to me that I reach some sort of limit when I work out, though.
Don't get me wrong, I love to lift. It fits my lifestyle, it makes me happy, it helps me keep a positive attitude. I want to lift weights and run until I'm 80. I would like very much, though, to weigh at least 160. And not after 10 years. I'm tired of people treating me like a punk or a freak when I am stronger per ounce than anyone I know.

[sarge]

okay, well, thank you for the advise.
basically, you're saying to just keep working with the weights, then, and keep up the protein regime.
when will I be ready for "gear"?

[sarge]

btw, i'm reading other posts, of course, and doing research.
I eat pretty clean, my wife is european and we hate fried foods. we mainly grill and bake. I will look at the dietary forums about the carb thing.
Just wanted to say, i'm not set on juicing. But, you guys have the experience and I need your knowledge. I'm already very physical. I didn't just wake up today and decide, "You know what, I want to beef up." I believe that I have already reached the limit that my body will grow without drastically changing my lifestyle, though, and I was hoping that something could help.

[IronRuffy]

How old are you sarge? I had a friend that was like you until he was 25 years old. He just started eating more, drinking whole milk and just kept eating... He manged to put on 15 lbs and he doesn't lift weights... Just hang in there, your body is just a little slower than everybody elses...

[Duke of Earl]

one gram of protein per pound of body weight really helps

There's a good starting point - you should be aiming for more than that- a minimum of 200g protein a day IMO- 135g protein is a school girls diet (well almost)!
And lift like your life depends on it (ie heavy).

[I R Baboon]

BTW Sarge...Welcome!

[sarge]

i'm 24, thanks for the reply and the advice
how do I get 200 g of protein a day, duckman? I already drink 3 shakes a day, each one doubled, plus creatine. And if I lift any heavier, i'm going to hurt myself. I appreciate the advice, even though you threw "school girl" in there. But, keep in mind that I've been taking 80-100 g plus my normal meals for a year. I've been doing pt for an hour in the morning, then lifting at home for an hour at night. I can't stop doing PT, or i'll get in trouble. But, it seems like I'm burning off all my gains when i'm running 5or 6 miles every other day.

[sarge]

I mean, I hate to sound whiny, but this is my last place to turn for advice. I catch my wife making that little grimace face every now and then. I'm just tired of working so hard and getting really strong, but staying so little. I mean, i'm literally skin, bone and muscle.

[IronRuffy]

You gotta eat more.... Eat lots and your body will have no choice but to grow... Just keep eating, stretch that stomach, You can do it...

[sarge]

i'm posting here because my buddy said, "Screw it, man, just start taking roids and stop killing yourself."

[sarge]

Alright, then. i'll do that. I won't get a pot belly from that? the protein is starting to give me a pot belly.

[sarge]

were any of you out there ever in my situation? What did you do, and to what effect? Any pics? I'm going to use this for my motivation for staying natural. it would help to see that it's possible.

[I R Baboon]

I have been really skinny most of my life too, i thought i was a hard gainer. I realized its just the amount of food consumed. My younger brother can shovel it down and he can gain weight no problem, but he really eats alot compared to me. I then looked at how much i was eating compared to him. What i consider to be a large meal he can and will eat double of, its just that us skinnier guys arent used to eating the quantity of foods nessessary to naturally promote good weight gains. I had to train myself to start eating alot...and i mean ALOT. We think we eat alot but usually if you break it down and take a look at the daily caloric/protien/carb intake its not as much as you thought in your head. Eat 5,000 cals a day and you will grow. Im still skinny, but i used to weigh 135 in high school-really thin, now i weigh 170-175 depending. You can do it man. Im still thin but im not skeletal anymore

[sarge]

okay, that's cool. I can understand that. So, if that works, maybe it will go to muscle instead of pot belly, considering that I already do strenous exercise. can you tell that i'm paranoid about being rail thing except with a pregnant-chick-like pot belly?

[Duke of Earl]

Hey sarge - no offence meant - was refering to your diet, not you!!
Shakes aren't a great source of protein - proper food is better (not in quantity, but quality anyhow) - id go 3-4 ''proper'' meals a day + 2 shakes a day
Post work out 1 double shake + loads of sh!tty simple carbs (my favourite part of the day)
Just eat loads of chicken, ham or tuna, thats what I do - it's a total pain in the arse, but it really does work ( I am a ''hardgainer'' )
(& dont forget you also need to eat plenty of carbs)
You could also cut down on your cardio - it'll keep you lean, but hamper your efforts to gain weight.

[SMYL_GR8]

Sarge, first of all, thanks for whatever you're doing in Iraq. I don't agree with our presence there, but respect you 110% for being there. Alright, enough politics, as for your questions, I think you need to do a lot more research. You're asking "empty" open-ended questions which display a lack of knowledge. We were all there once, but I feel that the point of your thread is "Hey, guys, I'm skinny. What should juice and what should I eat."

We all want to help, but these fundamental questions you are asking have been asked a hundred times before. Do lots of research through the threads, then come back and post your workout, your diet and your personal stats and your will get LOTS of critique. BTW, ectomorphs such as yourself (and myself) CAN grow naturally, we just have to be perfect with our diets and training. Good luck.

[sarge]

no problem, duck, and that's good advice, I can do that pretty easily. was kind of hoping that juicing was the key I was looking for, though.

[sarge]

hey, thanks, smyl g8!
yeah, i know, i don't have very much knowledge with the stuff. most people ignore me when i talk about workouts, since i'm so small. i've developed my workout and eating regime after some work and thought, but apparently not as much as you guys. for some reason, though, it just doesn't seem intuitively right that if I eat like i'm 300 lbs, including sugars, that i'll gain muscle. and, pardon me for posting so much about nutrition in roid room. I really did think that my diet was already good, along with my workout, and that all i needed was just something to bump my mass up a little.

thank you, guys for all of the posts. I didn't realize that people actually gave a crap about small guys like me.

[sarge]

that's a nice looking girl on your avatar, btw

[sarge]

hey, another question for ya'll that have gone from small to beef-- just how nice is it?
I mean, do you get punked out less? do you get more respect? more attention from the females? or is it all just hype?

[Anteros]

Hey Sarge im pretty much in ur position right now kinda...i started posting here a few weeks ago at 5'11 and 140....since implementing the advice of the guys here ive gained 10 pounds in those 3 weeks , of course a lot of it is fat but what can u do...we can lose fat later on quite easily im sure

i used to always think i ate a lot...but it simply wasnt true... u have to eat like ur life depends on it, i walk around gagging all day now because of how much i eat, i drink 16 egg whites every morning, i used to eat a can of tuna every like 4 or 5 hours, now i eat 2 every 2 hours...u really have to just do it...if ure serious about this it can be done, look at the sticky in the diet forum by LMO, and try ur best to do what these guys are telling u , they know their stuff...if u wanna track our progress together and share ideas, hit me with a PM

take care and good luck!

[Carlos_E]

were any of you out there ever in my situation? What did you do, and to what effect? Any pics? I'm going to use this for my motivation for staying natural. it would help to see that it's possible.

When I first came to AR I was 5'6" 145-150. I felt small and tiny and wanted to juice. I was told not to, to wait and learn how to grow naturally. I gained 32 pounds in little over 3 months naturally just by researching AR, changing my eating habits and training routines. I was a member here over a year before doing my first cycle. So I suggest you do the same. Read the diet and training forum and learn as much as you can. You will def. grow.

I noticed in your first post you said you run a lot. That could be the problem. Cut the cardio and just EAT!!!

[Mr. Sparkle]

carlos give me a break, its like your large or something

[Anteros]

When I first came to AR I was 5'6" 145-150. I felt small and tiny and wanted to juice. I was told not to, to wait and learn how to grow naturally. I gained 32 pounds in little over 3 months naturally just by researching AR, changing my eating habits and training routines. I was a member here over a year before doing my first cycle. So I suggest you do the same. Read the diet and training forum and learn as much as you can. You will def. grow.

I noticed in your first post you said you run a lot. That could be the problem. Cut the cardio and just EAT!!!

32 pounds in 3 months naturally ...u dont mind if i use that for motivation do u?

[seanw]

Sarge I feel for you man, I was the same way when I started out. I was 64KG at 5' 7" and skinny as sh!t. I started working out when I was 18, that was 31 years ago and I have never stopped. I was a hard gainer as well and without doubt the key is food. I didnt have access to the protein powders and stuff back then, I just had to make do with meals. I am sitting on 80KG at 49 and 12%BF and I am pretty happy with the way I look although I want another 5KG to finish off. You NEED at least 3000 calories a day. What you have to do is write down everything you eat and drink that has a calorific value and add it up. I gaurantee you, you are not getting that much. You are also being hampered by the cardio you are doing as a soldier (god bless you) but there isnt much you can do about that. Also the protein thing is vital to gaining as well, at least 1 to 1.5g of protein per lb of body weight. Good luck bro and I really hope you get to where you want to be.