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  1. #1
    faustunta is offline Junior Member
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    keepig your gains?

    Id liek to hear from anyone......who has done a cycle and has been off for a year or more now and has kept their gains without doing another cycle ????? anyone ?

  2. #2
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    It's not a year but it's getting close........ I just make sure I run PCT correctly and keep calories up durring that time......... then the obvious I keep training the rest of the year.

  3. #3
    seriouslifter is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by faustunta
    Id liek to hear from anyone......who has done a cycle and has been off for a year or more now and has kept their gains without doing another cycle ????? anyone ?
    I know what your trying to ask. Well, I basically lost all my gains on 2 cycles that I did. Its a long hall. Basically I was up 10lbs of kept and then I kept another 10, but then I looked like I had a bigger stomach. So I tried to cut/lose weight. Bad idea, should of kept calories up for another few months or more. Then i lost my stomach fat and I lost alot of muscle too. I was 210, went to 189. Now I am 192 or so. Fvck losing weight, I am going to get so huge. With my body, all fat goes directly to stomach. Everything looks good on body, besides a little stomach. But yes you can keep gains, but not 100% when ended. Creatine also helps taking it like a week or so before you end cycle. Depends on what kind of cycle your doing.

  4. #4
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    gains shouldnt be too hard to maintain, if u keep eating efficiently,
    u lose most gains when ur test levels suck! so when pct is done correctly - and your food intake (calories) is sufficient for ur requirements, you should keep most of your gains for sure!!

  5. #5
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    This Board

    Unfortunately, the success to failure ratio on THIS BOARD is quite poor. And this is an issue I want to discuss.

    I want EVERYONE to have successful cycles. I want EVERYONE to maintain all of their gains MONTHS after PCT--AND it is VERY POSSIBLE to DO SO. HOWEVER, you must thoroughly understand the compounds you are using, and the PROPER dosages in which they should be used.

    I was very disturbed when I first came to this forum(after being a member of many others) and I saw that the average bodybuilder was taking 2-3 times more anabolic steroids than Arnold or Columbo ever took. NEWBIES are taking 500-700mgs of TESTE a WEEK! Or even better--D-bol OVER 50 MGS!! ANYONE can make great gains(NOT WATER WEIGHT!) from 20 mgs d-bol ED! These are just a few examples of the DOGMA perpetuated on this board. It is ALMOST A RELIGIOUS BELIEF for Anabolic-Review members to "HAVE TEST IN EVERY CYCLE".....THIS IS NOT TRUE!! (I will get into the TEST myth in a SEPERATE THREAD!) BUT ONLY in America...this "more is better" attitude. More is NOT better...thats not how these compounds should be utilized for QUALITY muscle gains.

    i am way too tired to keep rambling, I am finding it hard to stay awake..ill start a thread tomorrow..

  6. #6
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    Please discuss indetail then....

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Unfortunately, the success to failure ratio on THIS BOARD is quite poor. And this is an issue I want to discuss.

    I want EVERYONE to have successful cycles. I want EVERYONE to maintain all of their gains MONTHS after PCT--AND it is VERY POSSIBLE to DO SO. HOWEVER, you must thoroughly understand the compounds you are using, and the PROPER dosages in which they should be used.

    I was very disturbed when I first came to this forum(after being a member of many others) and I saw that the average bodybuilder was taking 2-3 times more anabolic steroids than Arnold or Columbo ever took. NEWBIES are taking 500-700mgs of TESTE a WEEK! Or even better--D-bol OVER 50 MGS!! ANYONE can make great gains(NOT WATER WEIGHT!) from 20 mgs d-bol ED! These are just a few examples of the DOGMA perpetuated on this board. It is ALMOST A RELIGIOUS BELIEF for Anabolic-Review members to "HAVE TEST IN EVERY CYCLE".....THIS IS NOT TRUE!! (I will get into the TEST myth in a SEPERATE THREAD!) BUT ONLY in America...this "more is better" attitude. More is NOT better...thats not how these compounds should be utilized for QUALITY muscle gains.

    i am way too tired to keep rambling, I am finding it hard to stay awake..ill start a thread tomorrow..
    .....I wanna hear your 'TEST myth' therory...other boards that I scan also believe in test in every basic cycle..I believe in low doesages too in some cases depending on the individuals goals...
    Last edited by MR PHATT ASS; 05-17-2005 at 04:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seriouslifter
    I know what your trying to ask. Well, I basically lost all my gains on 2 cycles that I did. Its a long hall. Basically I was up 10lbs of kept and then I kept another 10, but then I looked like I had a bigger stomach. So I tried to cut/lose weight. Bad idea, should of kept calories up for another few months or more. Then i lost my stomach fat and I lost alot of muscle too. I was 210, went to 189. Now I am 192 or so. Fvck losing weight, I am going to get so huge. With my body, all fat goes directly to stomach. Everything looks good on body, besides a little stomach. But yes you can keep gains, but not 100% when ended. Creatine also helps taking it like a week or so before you end cycle. Depends on what kind of cycle your doing.
    You know some compounds at less then 1 gram doses of testosterone , testosterone can only directly increase your lean muscle mass by about 5 lbs. The rest of the gains from testosterone and other steroids comes more from supression of cortisol then from direct anabolic activities. Off cycle you have to use great care not to activate cortisol because it will break down and destroy a muscle in record time and you basically cant get it back too easily without doing another cycle.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=TheMindOfRoss]Unfortunately, the success to failure ratio on THIS BOARD is quite poor. And this is an issue I want to discuss.

    Really?

    I want EVERYONE to have successful cycles. I want EVERYONE to maintain all of their gains MONTHS after PCT--AND it is VERY POSSIBLE to DO SO. HOWEVER, you must thoroughly understand the compounds you are using, and the PROPER dosages in which they should be used.

    I think that is why we are all here. To share experience and learn.

    I was very disturbed when I first came to this forum(after being a member of many others) and I saw that the average bodybuilder was taking 2-3 times more anabolic steroids than Arnold or Columbo ever took. NEWBIES are taking 500-700mgs of TESTE a WEEK! Or even better--D-bol OVER 50 MGS!! ANYONE can make great gains(NOT WATER WEIGHT!) from 20 mgs d-bol ED! These are just a few examples of the DOGMA perpetuated on this board. It is ALMOST A RELIGIOUS BELIEF for Anabolic-Review members to "HAVE TEST IN EVERY CYCLE".....THIS IS NOT TRUE!! (I will get into the TEST myth in a SEPERATE THREAD!) BUT ONLY in America...this "more is better" attitude. More is NOT better...thats not how these compounds should be utilized for QUALITY muscle gains.

    Im not sure how taking 20mgs of dbol vs 50mgs will help you keep your gains better. I had a guy from Austria tell me to take dbol 60mgs for 12wks. Was he wrong? Yes. Was he American? No.

    I dont think there is anything wrong the advice given on this board. If you have better advice w/proof to back it up then I am all ears.
    Last edited by RA; 05-17-2005 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #9
    TRICK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Unfortunately, the success to failure ratio on THIS BOARD is quite poor.
    oh really? and how was the succuss ratio BEFORE this board came online?


    Quote Originally Posted by The MindOfRoss
    ANYONE can make great gains(NOT WATER WEIGHT!) from 20 mgs d-bol ED!
    REALLY? and just who would those people be,lab rats?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    It is ALMOST A RELIGIOUS BELIEF for Anabolic-Review members to "HAVE TEST IN EVERY CYCLE".....THIS IS NOT TRUE!!
    and why do you think that is? could it be that a.a.s. suppress natural testosterone and that by including it in some form YOUR D!CK WILL WORK!

    i've read a lot of your "banter" and wish you would just go away. sure if the person is not smart enough to do their own research than of course they can screw up! but let me ask you bro: whats the first response a "newbie" gets on this board when asking about cycles? DO SOME RESEARCH! whats the other response? it usually starts with "in my opinion".

    if all you can do is critisize this board then why don't you go and start your own and leave us the fvck alone!!!!

  10. #10
    longislandbeast is offline New Member
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    Id really like to hear some of your theories

  11. #11
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    why ban him.. he is kinda entertaining...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandbeast
    Id really like to hear some of your theories
    Yeah same here, If you have nothing productive to say dont say anything.

  13. #13
    Swifto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taiboxa
    why ban him.. he is kinda entertaining...
    New Saluu?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigswiftos
    New Saluu?
    errr.. atleast he can compose complete sentences... still uses the dam capslock too much ... but i think its kuz he is trying to stress certain points...?

  15. #15
    Vegas67 is offline Member
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    Hey, what happened to Saluu...Ive been gone for a while?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas67
    Hey, what happened to Saluu...Ive been gone for a while?
    He is still here trying to come up with his next disorganized post. I told him to go to www.adultadd.com but I dont think he took my advice.

  17. #17
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    easy guys

    EASY GUYS...I enjoy this board, as there is some VITAL information floating around here. JUST BE OPEN MINDED. I KNOW that since I have come to this board, I have spoken of some CONTROVERSIAL ideas--however, if you have an open-mind, you may just BENEFIT from my advices. Just because a VIEW is POPULAR, does not mean it is CORRECT--for instance, there are over 5 BILLION muslims in the WORLD--are they ALL CORRECT?? Is there REALLY 12 virgins in heaven WAITING for you, IF you kill yourself in the name of ALLAH? I think not...

    AND..likewise, just because MANY members of this board believe TEST should be a part of every cycle--does NOT mean they are CORRECT. I am a SCIENTIST--not some kid using my body as a guinea pig. It is a fact, that Endogenous hormone prouduction is FAR more disturbed when using TESTOSTERONE compounds, than using mild anabolics like Oxandrolone, Primobolan , and EQ. Ergo, GAINS are FAR more keepable from a WELL PLANNED, low dose, ANABOLIC cycle. YES, your COCK will not be RAGING hard all day, hell, it may NOT EVEN WORK! HOWEVER--the solution is NOT TO supplemement your lack of natural test with supraphysiological doses of TEST, as ALL YOU ARE DOING IS SHUTTING YOURSELF DOWN HARDER--but NOW you can get hard-ons and feel as horny as a 16 year old, because TEST is PUMPING through your veins.

    I understand that it SEEMS not having a working dick would be bad. ITS NOT--its something you ACCEPT while ON CYCLE, and when you come off, you recover PERFECTLY. BUT, when you add TEST and you eliminate the sexual sides while ON CYCLE, you are ONLY making it HARDER to recover and keep your gains when u come OFF! SO YOU CHOOSE:

    1.) Have no sex drive WHILE ON cycle--but you RECOVER quickly after and maintain ALL of your gains.
    or
    2.) Use TEST with some other MILD anabolic and have TONS OF HARD-ONS while ON cycle--BUT when you come off, you will maintain little of your gains due to your overly supressed endocrine system...

    I am here for questions.....

  18. #18
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    Oh yea..

    And about the D-bol question...

    The reason why using 20mgs of D-bol ED rather than 50mgs ED will yeild MORE KEEPABLE gains is SIMPLE. When using a low dose, MUSCLE ACCUMULATION is slower, and so to is WATER RETENTION. Therefore, after 5 weeks of a low dose d-bol, gains are SOLID, not watery, and because a low-dosage was used, and during the final 1-2 weeks TAPERING is accomplished, your endocrine system will be able to better support the new muscle mass gains you have made. Furthermore, your WEIGHT gain was LBM, not WATER, so you don't DEFLATE, as is commonly seen with DBOL and TEST(BUT ONLY cause they are RUN IMPROPERLY!) By using high dosages of TEST as well, the same thing happens. The body is NOT able to hold on to mass that is so artificially accumulated.

    More is not BETTER! SLow and steady wins the race every time...

  19. #19
    RA's Avatar
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    So, your 175lbs. Holy shit, what a monster!!! You know, your right we should all listen to a 21 year old punk that comes in trying to push everyone else around and saying were all idiots. Hail to the smallest person on the fn board :aaok****t

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    EASY GUYS...I enjoy this board, as there is some VITAL information floating around here. JUST BE OPEN MINDED. I KNOW that since I have come to this board, I have spoken of some CONTROVERSIAL ideas--however, if you have an open-mind, you may just BENEFIT from my advices. Just because a VIEW is POPULAR, does not mean it is CORRECT--for instance, there are over 5 BILLION muslims in the WORLD--are they ALL CORRECT?? Is there REALLY 12 virgins in heaven WAITING for you, IF you kill yourself in the name of ALLAH? I think not...

    AND..likewise, just because MANY members of this board believe TEST should be a part of every cycle--does NOT mean they are CORRECT. I am a SCIENTIST--not some kid using my body as a guinea pig. It is a fact, that Endogenous hormone prouduction is FAR more disturbed when using TESTOSTERONE compounds, than using mild anabolics like Oxandrolone, Primobolan , and EQ. Ergo, GAINS are FAR more keepable from a WELL PLANNED, low dose, ANABOLIC cycle. YES, your COCK will not be RAGING hard all day, hell, it may NOT EVEN WORK! HOWEVER--the solution is NOT TO supplemement your lack of natural test with supraphysiological doses of TEST, as ALL YOU ARE DOING IS SHUTTING YOURSELF DOWN HARDER--but NOW you can get hard-ons and feel as horny as a 16 year old, because TEST is PUMPING through your veins.

    I understand that it SEEMS not having a working dick would be bad. ITS NOT--its something you ACCEPT while ON CYCLE, and when you come off, you recover PERFECTLY. BUT, when you add TEST and you eliminate the sexual sides while ON CYCLE, you are ONLY making it HARDER to recover and keep your gains when u come OFF! SO YOU CHOOSE:

    1.) Have no sex drive WHILE ON cycle--but you RECOVER quickly after and maintain ALL of your gains.
    or
    2.) Use TEST with some other MILD anabolic and have TONS OF HARD-ONS while ON cycle--BUT when you come off, you will maintain little of your gains due to your overly supressed endocrine system...

    I am here for questions.....
    I disagree, For instance I know for a fact if I did fina, or deca alone I will be shut down alot longer than if I was to use test. This has been proven. Yea some people won't get deca dick, but to make solid gains, and minimize sides you need TEST as a base. And I can also garantee you that, YOU will not recover faster with out any test.

  21. #21
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    Deca

    Nandrolone and TRENBELONE are the MOST suppressive compounds. I don't EVER use these compunds. As for my profile, as of OCT 2004, I was 175, 6%BF. I am currently, 1 year later, 205 lbs, 7% BF.

  22. #22
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    Nice gains in one year!! what did you take?
    Last edited by 4spain; 05-17-2005 at 03:13 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Nandrolone and TRENBELONE are the MOST suppressive compounds. I don't EVER use these compunds. As for my profile, as of OCT 2004, I was 175, 6%BF. I am currently, 1 year later, 205 lbs, 7% BF.
    Yeah, and Im 300 w/2% bf. You didnt gain 30lbs in one year on var.

  24. #24
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    lol

    Of course I did not gain 30 KEEPABLE lbs in one year from ONLY ANAVAR . LOL. Although, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, based on its frequency of use, flexibility of use, and mode of action, it was my BIGGEST help along the way. I am not an ANAVAR salesman, I don't care who or who does not include it in their cycling remimens. I do however, find it to be a very useful compound, so those seeking QUALITY muscle gains should include it. I also use Dianabol (NOT USED IN HIGH DOSES!), Primobolan , EQ, and testosterone prop.

    Any other questions?

  25. #25
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    Ok... all the flaming and trash talking wil STOP NOW! Let's all just agree to disagree.... just because his views are different doesn't mean to slam him. Ya'll can argue like adults or if ya wish to keep arguing like children this will get locked or deleted... if it persists harsher plans of action will be taken.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Of course I did not gain 30 KEEPABLE lbs in one year from ONLY ANAVAR . LOL. Although, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, based on its frequency of use, flexibility of use, and mode of action, it was my BIGGEST help along the way. I am not an ANAVAR salesman, I don't care who or who does not include it in their cycling remimens. I do however, find it to be a very useful compound, so those seeking QUALITY muscle gains should include it. I also use Dianabol (NOT USED IN HIGH DOSES!), Primobolan , EQ, and testosterone prop.

    Any other questions?

    Test Prop wins again!

    MJ

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Of course I did not gain 30 KEEPABLE lbs in one year from ONLY ANAVAR . LOL. Although, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, based on its frequency of use, flexibility of use, and mode of action, it was my BIGGEST help along the way. I am not an ANAVAR salesman, I don't care who or who does not include it in their cycling remimens. I do however, find it to be a very useful compound, so those seeking QUALITY muscle gains should include it. I also use Dianabol (NOT USED IN HIGH DOSES!), Primobolan , EQ, and testosterone prop.

    Any other questions?
    Im going to say on the 30lbs and going up only 1% in bf. Its obvious you have some knowledge, I think its the way you are approaching it. Not trying to flame texan- this is my opinion.

  28. #28
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    Nothing wrong with arguing like adults.... I just don't want all the name calling and BS that goes along with it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack
    Im going to say on the 30lbs and going up only 1% in bf. Its obvious you have some knowledge, I think its the way you are approaching it. Not trying to flame texan- this is my opinion.
    Well gaining that much weight and only that much bf in a year is possible... I'm not saying just on Var, but it is possible...

  30. #30
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    good man..

    I think I have conducted myself like an adult. I have formulated very concise responses to my various criticisms, and I have maintained calm and cool the entire time. BIG TEXAN--thanks for stepping in. Once again, I am only here to help.

  31. #31
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    I haven't read every single post on this thread but yes you have handled yourself nicely... lets just keep it that way.... folks... please do the same.

  32. #32
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    guys what hes saying as lot of truth to it. some people are gunna tell you that you need more juice, so that they can make more money. ofcourse a gram of test is gunna give you better gains than 300mg. but as with every drug known to existance, the more you take, the higher the side effects. more test, will make a harder recovery. end of story. theres not some little switch in your nutsack to shutoff natural test. having rediculous amounts of any hormone leaves more space to be converted into dht, and estrogen too. so your going to get more chances of gyno etc.... as for deca /tren alone, i dont know if id want to figure out for myself, but i know friends who have done both of them as a single hormone. theyre fine, but maybe someone else wont be. i have a friend that did a straight dbol /test cycle 30/300 respectivly and then tey did clomid/nolva pct. he needs cialis now, or he cant get it up.

    do some reasearch for your self guys. look at what the popular ideas for juicing was 20 years ago or even 10. it changes. people keep taking more and more, and i really and truely thing that this is due to the local sellers pushing it on to their clientel.

    and i would like to hear some more of your theories. wheres bask8case i wanna hear his opinion

  33. #33
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    very true

    VERY TRUE INDEED! The dosages suggested on this board are LUDACRIS! Professional bodybuilders in the 80's and 90's were taking 25mgs of D-bol with REMARKABLE success, with newbies taking as little as 10mgs with great gains! More is not better!

    European bodybuilders RARELY USE TEST. This is an american fascination, obviously because for americans "more is better"..always. We are the only COUNTRY that has SUVS! lol.

    Furthermore, incorporating TEST into every cycle is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF here at Anabolic -Review. I am making a relentless effort to dispell this gross misconception, as I feel it is the reason why THIS board has 4 TIMES as many threads about AWFUL SIDE EFFECTS.

    I am always here for questions..

  34. #34
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    "European bodybuilders RARELY USE TEST"

    How can you back this claim up?

    "Furthermore, incorporating TEST into every cycle is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF here at Anabolic -Review. I am making a relentless effort to dispell this gross misconception, as I feel it is the reason why THIS board has 4 TIMES as many threads about AWFUL SIDE EFFECTS."

    You have one hell of a job ahead of you! But why not incorperate Test into every cycle? Theories? It IS however the building blocks of muscle's, right?

  35. #35
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    Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

    1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 40% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

    2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

    3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMindOfRoss
    Why NOT to incorporate TEST into EVERY CYCLE:

    1.) Testosterone has a PROFOUND impact on your HPTA--CLINICALLY demonstrated to be MORE disturbing to the endocrine system than other anabolics when used alone. Testosterone supplementation reduced the body's own testosterone production by nearly 100%, while even Dianabol used in higher dosages, only caused a 40% decrease in testosterone production. Therefore, using a moderate testosterone dosage while ON A CYCLE of a mild anabolic such as primobolan or oxandrolone (even EQ) to COMBAT lack of LIBIDO, ect, will only make it HARDER to maintain your gains POST CYCLE. You are eliminating sexual sides, but doing so at the cost of your NATURAL TEST PRODUCTION.

    2.) Testosterone has BAD SIDE EFFECTS IF YOU ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED. Hairloss, Gyno, and prostate difficulties are high risks for many people on this board. Some are able to do test without much negative effect, while others are DEVESTATED by side effects.

    3.) QUALITY OF GAINS. Testosterone causes a RAPID increase in body mass, much of which is lost upon cessation of cycle. This is due largely to the fact that testosterone aromatizes VERY easily, causing noticable water retention in most individuals. Using non-aromatizing steroids ELIMINATES the possibility of exposing your body to SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL levels of ESTROGEN, and it also reduces the amount of weight you lose post cycle. Furthermore, because of HOW MUCH TESTOSTERONE affects the HPTA, maintaining gains POST cycle can be very difficult, even with clomid therapy.
    Can you please give us an example of your ideal cycle?

  37. #37
    NoobJuice's Avatar
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    2 Cycles 42 lbs gained and kept the key :
    EATING AND TRAINING LIKE A FUKN ANIMAL

  38. #38
    TheMindOfRoss is offline Banned
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    Ideal..

    A cycle has SO many variables, including the individual's sensitivity to the various anabolics/androgenic steroids that are to be used. It also depends on one's goals, and level of tolerance to side effects. There are a PLETHORA of different dosing schemes and cycle durations, ranging from 2 WEEKS on 2 WEEKS OFF, with a short acting ester, and I have done 16 week cycles using long-acting esthers. I have used 4 week, 5 week, and 6 week dosing protocols. There are SOO many different ways to cycle--its TRULY a SHAME so many people are close-minded, and are only willing to run TRADITIONAL AMERICAN 8-16 week cycles.

  39. #39
    Swifto's Avatar
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    Please give me an an example of one of your "4 week, 5 week and 6 week" cycles. Dosages, sides, gains made, gains attained after discontinuence of cycle?

  40. #40
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    o and ross if you dont use the compounds you really shouldnt say Shite pal.

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