05-28-2002, 04:55 PM #1
Experience users let me know your thoughts!
Alright here goes!
5' 7" 155lbs 21 years old BF 10-12% (maybe lower)
Training for 5 years.
Eat VERY clean 2000-2500 cal diet
Get all the rest required (even over rest sometimes..lol)
First cycle ever!
Train each body part once a week
Test Enan 400mg
Clomid for post cycle and nov. on hand in cause gyno symptoms.
Splitting shots up into 2 injections a week (200mg EQ/ 200mg TEST)
What kind of gains am i looking at? 15-20lbs maybe (keepable)? And i am pretty lean now but will i get any leaner? I want to be able to see cuts and definition still. My goal is to fall into the 170-180lb range. Thanks fellas you have all be a GREAT help.
ps.....should i add anything in there?
Thanks BROS without your help i would be lost!
05-28-2002, 04:57 PM #2
looks spot on! good job.
You may wanna add some dbol in the begining, say 1-4 just to jump start it.
up to you though.
Your gonna wanna up your cal intake to atleast 4000, and then i see now problem reaching your desired goal
05-28-2002, 05:01 PM #3
05-28-2002, 05:25 PM #4
i agree, looks very nice. since this is your 1st cycle, i would nix the dbol for this one. but like posted above, its your call. i think 15 keepable is a good reachable estimate, however you might have to up the clean calories some to achieve this goal, and keep it. good luck........
..........sorry cynce, didnt see the part of your post dealing with the calorie intake, so......... WHAT CYNCE SAID!
Last edited by iron4life79; 05-28-2002 at 05:27 PM.
05-28-2002, 05:43 PM #5
IMO, for a first cycle 15 pounds should be a mininum goal.
05-28-2002, 11:59 PM #6Associate Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
Definitely bump the cals upto around 3500-4000 and go from there. Don't mistake holding water for getting fat and even if you put on a little fat it's no big deal. You can strip that away later. More important to take advantage of your gear and put on as much muscle as possible. Keep your protein at 250-300/day.
05-29-2002, 12:58 AM #7
Well presented cycle AZlifter! You did the research well and laid out ALL the stats & goals--a textbook case of a good cycle post if I ever saw one! (Only one major flaw: the subject line should be more descriptive, something like: Need Opinions on First Cycle: Test/EQ)
15lbs is an acheivable goal--and you might do better. Hoping for 15 and getting 20 or more feels better than expecting 30 and only getting 15!
JH is right about the calories--you will need to eat LOT more than 2000-2500. Make sure you up the protien as well. Eating enough of the right foods on a cycle is hardest part IMO.
YOu wont likely lose fat--if you do you aren't eating enough calories and you are limiting the amopunt of muscle you will gain. Better to eat like madman now, pack onthe muscle, then diet down a bit post-Clomid.
Should you add anything? Well, if you don't have them, you MUST add some anti-estrogen and Clomid to restore natural testosterone production and keep your gains!
Q: What is Nolvadex / Arimidex / Liquidex / Proviron? How do I prevent gyno / bitch tits?
A: Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate), Arimidex / Liquidex (anastrozole) and Proviron (mesterlone) all act as anti-estrogens (sometimes called anti-e’s).
Estrogen is naturally found in the male body in small amounts, however, when taking certain steroids , an excess of estrogen can be created through a process called aromitization. This abnormally large concentration of estrogen can cause some undesirable side effects, such as enlargement of the breasts (commonly referred to as “gyno” or “bitch tits”), female pattern fat distribution and water retention. (Gyno can also be caused by higher concentrations of estrogen relative the your body’s level of testosterone, so gyno can be problem all the way through the end of Clomid therapy.)
Not all people who use steroids experience any estrogen related problems. Many people have taken many cycles at high dosages without using any anti-estrogens and have reported that they experienced no symptoms of gyno. Other people can take a small dose of steroids for one cycle and develop noticeable enlargement of the breast.
Estrogen can be blocked in two ways: you can block it from aromatizing, or you can block it from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body.
Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken only if and when symptoms of gyno appear. The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy. If you are taking low-moderate doses of steroids (200-600mg a week falls into that class) you can halve the Nolvadex dose.
Arimidex, Liquidex and Proviron all function as aromatase inhibitors and work by blocking estrogen from forming. Most body builders prefer to block the estrogen from forming, because in addition to preventing gyno, it also decreases water retention and keeps the body looking harder. Typical dosages for Arimidex are 0.25 mg a day to 1.0mg a day, with 0. 5mg a day being average. Proviron is typically taken at a dosage of 50mg a day.
ALWAYS have an anti-estrogen on hand when you take steroids! Tits look great--but not on men! Even if you take an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Proviron, you should keep some Nolvadex on hand just in case the dose you are taking is too low and you start to see symptoms of gyno appear.
Q: If I Start having Symptoms of Gyno and I don’t have an anti-estrogen, should I just stop taking steroids?
A: Stopping your cycle won't fix the problem. Why?
1) You will still have estrogen in your body, so the tit-building continues.
2) You will still have steroids in your body for the next 2-3 weeks that will convert to estrogen, so the tit-building continues.
3) After all the steroids are metabolized your testosterone will be near zero and your body's natural estrogen levels will be high (yes, your body does produce some estrogen), which also means that tit-building will continue.
Stopping the steroids will not stop gyno. Anti-estrogens stop gyno.
If you don't take an aromatase inhibitor during your cycle like Arimidex or Proviron ALWAYS have some Nolvadex on hand. Even if you do use aromatase inhibitors, having Nolvadex on hand is still a good idea in case your Arimidex/Proviron dose is too low or you accidentally miss doses.
I recommend having no less than 60 x 20mg tabs of Nolvadex on hand before you start ANY cycle.
IMO, only a fool would start a cycle without anti-e's on hand.
Q: If I Start having symptoms of gyno what should I do?
A: Treat the symptoms with Nolvadex. Once you have estrogen in your system, aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex, Femara and Proviron will not prevent the estrogen hat has formed from causing gyno.
Nolvadex is the only drug that will stop gyno once the symptoms appear. Nolvadex prevents estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors in the body. Nolvadex is generally taken only if and when symptoms of gyno appear. The typical dosage is 80mg the first day, 40mg every day until the symptoms subside and 20mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.
If you are taking low-moderate doses of steroids (200-600mg a week falls into that class) you can halve the Nolvadex dose: 40mg the first day, 20mg every day until the symptoms subside and 10mg a day through the end of Clomid therapy.
If you don't take an aromatase inhibitor during your cycle like Arimidex, Femara or Proviron ALWAYS have some Nolvadex on hand. Even if you do use aromatase inhibitors, having Nolvadex on hand is still a good idea in case your Arimidex/Femara/Proviron dose is too low or you accidentally miss doses.
Plan for he best, prepare for the worst! I recommend having no less than 60 x 20mg tabs of Nolvadex on hand before you start ANY cycle.
(Sorry for being a bit repetitive here, but this point is SO IMPORTANT, I don’t want to leave any aspect uncovered.)
Q: Are there any non-prescription anti-estrogens?
A: No, none that I would trust. Sorry!
Q: I already have gyno, what can I do to make it go away?
A: If breasts tissue has already formed, the only treatment is surgical; anti-estrogens will have no effect in reducing the size.
Q: Can I get acne from using anabolic steroids?
A: Yes. Steroids can cause acne. Some people experience little to no acne while on steroids; other people can get quite severe acne. Like most side effects, the larger the doses you take, the greater the chance / seriousness of the side effects.
EXCESS wrote a great FAQ on acne treatments for steroid users.
Q: Can steroids cause hair loss?
A: They can cause hair loss. It seems to affect men who already have a pre-disposition to male pattern baldness.
The main culprit for steroid -induced hair loss is the buildup of DHT (dihydrotestosterone) in the scalp. DHT is a by-product of the metabolization of testosterone and other steroids.
The two most common products used to prevent hair loss are DHT blockers.
Nizoral shampoo (2% Ketoconazole) suppresses DHT in the scalp and is used 2-3 times daily.
Finasteride (Proscar, Procepia) taken at a dosage of 1mg daily will block DHT buildup in the scalp as well. Finasteride also has the added advantage of preventing DHT induced prostate enlargement.
See this post here for more information on steroids & hair loss.
Q: Will I lose my gains when I stop taking steroids? What is the best way to keep the gains I made on anabolic steroids?
A: One particular problem with steroids is that they temporarily shut down the body’s natural testosterone production, so once the steroid cycle is completed, the body is not producing any testosterone. Without your natural testosterone, you feel tired, you have no libido and muscle atrophy (loss of muscle) can occur.
Most bodybuilders use Clomid post-cycle to restore their natural testosterone production.
On top of that, good diet and a good exercise regiment will help you keep most, if not all of your gains.
Q: What is Clomid? How do I take Clomid?
A: Clomid (clomiphene citrate) helps the male testes to restore natural testosterone production. Clomid is taken on the following schedule: 300mg the first day, 100mg a day for the next ten days and 50mg a day for another 10 days.
Click here for an excellent FAQ on Clomid.
Q: When should I start Clomid after my cycle?
A: When the LAST of the steroids are out of your system. Here is a chart that illustrates how long it takes specific steroids to get out of your system:
Anadrol : 8 - 12 hours after last administration
Deca : 3 weeks after last injection and Clomid for 4 weeks
Dianabol : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Equipoise : 17 – 21 days after last injection
Fina: 3 days after last injection
Primobolan depot: 10 – 14 days after last injection
Sustanon : 3 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Cypionate : 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Enathate: 2 weeks after last injection
Testosterone Propionate : 3 days after last injection
Testosterone Suspension : 4 – 8 hours after last administration
Winstrol : 8 – 12 hours after last administration
Wait until ALL the steroids you have taken have been metabolized! For example, if you stop taking testosterone enathate (2 weeks) and Winstrol (12 hours) at the same time, wait 2 weeks!
05-29-2002, 12:14 PM #8
BUMP.......thanks guys....are there any supplements out there that i could take to increase my gains....i have protein and glutamine already, so any suggestions would be GREAT!
05-29-2002, 02:07 PM #9
Hey anyone got an idea on how much water i should be consuming during this cycle? I drink 1 gallon a day maybe less on some days....also is there any OTC that help shed water; that i can take with the cycle? Thanks fellas
05-29-2002, 02:22 PM #10Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
You and I have almost the same stats including diet, except I'm 28 and weigh 160-164 lbs. (the scale at my gym sucks) with a 30" waist.
I'm doing Test Cyp only right now (first cycle), but I want to begin using EQ with test Cyp for my next. Keep in touch and let me know how your cycle goes. I'm thinking we can learn a bit from each other since the body types are similar.
Best of luck with your cycle.
05-29-2002, 02:27 PM #11
For sure i'll keep you posted on my cycle. Look for the posts in the members cycle results in about 3 weeks and i'll drop you a line and let you know anything else you need. How are your gains so far?
05-29-2002, 02:43 PM #12Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
The gains are going to come. I literally just started. So, I'll check back in with the results in a few weeks. My cycle is a slow start--Cyp at 250mg per week. If I see some reasonable results I'll just up it to 600mg and add EQ (I'm joking).
If the results are good, I'll keep it at 200-250mg of Cyp and add EQ (from what I've read, it looks like 400mg is the way to start--like you're doing).
05-30-2002, 09:40 AM #13
Would adding some fina to my cycle help to get me more cut up and defined?
05-30-2002, 09:50 AM #14
Looks good. Eat more though. Try 3000kcal for your goal, maybe higher. Generally 25kcal/lb for bulking but that may put on a little extra fat.
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