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  1. #1
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    Please give me some cycle advice (no water)

    I would like some advice, especially from those who have gained quality muscle with next to no water retention.

    I've done quite a few cycles over the past, nearly always using test as a base. I've done cycles with Dianabol , Enanthate , Sustanon , Deca .

    The problem is, I seem to blow up like a balloon after these cycles due to excessive water retention and fat gain, and when I attempt to bring down the bloat and get shredded with cardio, I tend to loose way too much muscle in the process. My goal now is to try to gain as much quality muscle as I can without the unecessary bloat. I am hesitant to do a cycle without testosterone however, because of all this test is best hype? Why is testosterone so good? Even with megadoses of clomid post-cycle, the amount of muscle kept is next to nothing after the discontinuation of a cycle.

    I am thinking the best route to go is to use large doses of primobolan depot, winstrol depot, and maybe some deca. (I know EQ is better in terms of water retention but I can't take the thought of injecting myself with a horse steroid ).

    I am not so familiar with primobolan, and I would like to know what a moderate dose and a high weekly dose is for this steroid?

    Perhaps using sustanon at only 500mg/wk, primo, winstrol & deca with arimidex throughout cycle would help keeping water retention low?


    Any thoughts, suggestions, and advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Please take into account everything I mentioned above.

    Thank You

  2. #2
    ripped4fsu's Avatar
    ripped4fsu is offline Anabolic Member
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    I am looking to do a similar cycle to what you described and this is what I came up with, with the help of some good bros!

    weeks 1- 10 100mgs prop ed
    weeks 1-12 400-600mg eq
    weeks 8 - 12 50mgs winny ed
    weeks 7 - 15 1cc fina ed

    IMO you need to get over your fear of EQ, it's a good solid muscle builder with less sides than deca

  3. #3
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
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    What was your diet like? Were you eating a lot of salty foods?

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by BASK8KACE
    What was your diet like? Were you eating a lot of salty foods?
    My diet was mostly clean. I usually avoid salty foods.
    I was eating 6 x a day every 3 hours, about 1g protein/lb bodyweight,
    low fat, moderate carbs, high protein and getting my water and everything.

    I think the problem was no cardio during my cycles.
    I never realized I had such a high metabolism until I started cardio, and my weight dropped from 235lbs with over 20%bf to 187lbs with 13.5%bf in just under 2 months.

    At 235lbs I didn't like my appearance. My face was bloated in a moon shape, I had a gut, double chin, and I looked like a 40 year old at 23. My back showed the most improvement, but my arms, chest, legs were still ridiculously small. My biceps measured only 15.5"!!!
    The wrong things grew, such as my neck and face.
    Here is a pic of me at that time:


    I then started some serious cardio, my face went back to normal, I lost the gut, but I also lost most of the size I gained.
    Here is a pic of me now:

    Ok Shit picture, but I think you get the point.

    Perhaps I gained too much weight in a short period of time.
    Last edited by Toenail Juice Z; 11-27-2002 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    BUMP!

  6. #6
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    Any opinions/suggestions?

  7. #7
    tanto is offline Junior Member
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    if you're looking for lean gains with no water and minimum fat ,than you have to stick with gear that wont aromatize.enathate,d-bol,deca -stack is classic mass building stack and of course you'll gain some fat and hold water on it ,because they aromatize.fina ,winstrol and some test will work well. is test the best? yes it is.it's used because it works well on anyone(you wont hear things like i dont respond on test, etc)second most gear will shut you down ,and you'll loose your sex drive.cure is test
    if you severly bloat on even small test dosages ,you can trow in some armidex

  8. #8
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    Ok thanks.

    Alright, obviously testosterone is a must, but can you advise me on dosages for primobolan depot?

    I have decided to do a cycle that goes like this:

    Sustanon only 250mg/wk - weeks 1-10
    Deca 400mg/wk - weeks 1-8
    Primobolan - ??? A high dose - weeks 1-8
    Winstrol Depot - 50mg/day weeks 6-10

    What are your opinions on this cycle, and please give me an indication as to what a moderate-high dose is for Primobolan Depot. I have never used this stuff before. (Primo)

  9. #9
    tanto is offline Junior Member
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    i didn't use primo myself ,because it's to much $$$.recomended dosages are 300/400 mg /week and up.
    i would chose eq instead of deca in cutting cycle

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by tanto
    i didn't use primo myself ,because it's to much $$$.recomended dosages are 300/400 mg /week and up.
    i would chose eq instead of deca in cutting cycle
    Thanks for the information, I will use 400mg/wk primo and 300mg/wk deca .

    It's quite expensive, but don't forget for the price you get quality muscle gains and next to no side effects whatsoever.

  11. #11
    Solo is offline Junior Member
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    to kepp gains i would do a cycle like this, and avoid test, especially if I were you, since you haven't been able to keep last cycles.

    I wouldn't do any longer cycle then 4-5 weeks, the break for 8 weeks, the do another cycle for 4-5 weeks, and repeat until I've gained as mutch I wanted, this way you'll easier keep you gains, but ofcourse it will take longer time too gain as mutch as you want. A good cycle would look something like this
    w1-5 30 mg dbols/ed
    w1-5 25 mg anavar ed
    w1-5 50 mg winstrol depot /ed
    w1-5 76 mg parabolan /ed or anything containing tren , in Sweden it's still easy to find parabolan, but I've heard all in the states are fake, so perhaps some fina or wathever you find.
    w 5-6 clomid + clenbuterol + keep eating lots of food

    w 13-18 repeat

    with this cycle you won't bloat up, and you will keep almost everything and yes, you will get gigantic strenght increase, but you won't gain as mutch mass as with longer enathe cycles, but instead it will be mutch easier to keep the mass.

  12. #12
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    Solo, thanks for the advice but anavar costs a shit load, (in the country where I am it costs a dollar per tab) and d-bol will just blow me up with water. I think i'le keep test at a low dosage to prevent the huge libido shutdown and deca dick.

    Please comment on the cycle I have decided to do.

    Weeks 1-12 Sustanon 250mg/wk
    weeks 1-10 Deca 300mg/week
    weeks 1-10 Primobolan Depot 400mg/wk
    weeks 8-12 winstrol depot 50mg/day

  13. #13
    Solo is offline Junior Member
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    good luck!

  14. #14
    tanto is offline Junior Member
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    Originally posted by Toenail Juice Z


    Thanks for the information, I will use 400mg/wk primo and 300mg/wk deca .

    It's quite expensive, but don't forget for the price you get quality
    muscle gains and next to no side effects whatsoever.
    true,but besides high price there are many,many fakes out there,so for me not worth the risk.

  15. #15
    Sicilian30's Avatar
    Sicilian30 is offline Respected Member
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    Cycle looks great, I woudl have some armidex however to keep some of the bloat down, you stated you bloat on test. Primo, is not supposed to make you bloat, but the sustanon and deca may. If you start seeing bloating, I would start with about .5ml EOD or even .5ml every 4 days or so. I bloat like hell on test myself. EQ works great for keeping the bloat down, as well.

  16. #16
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    make sure to get a lot of clomid for your post cycle, deca and primo together is supposed to shut you down hard

  17. #17
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    Cycle looks like ass because you are running Sustanon at 250mg per week! You need some Enanthate or something if you are going to go that low.

    My carefully thought out sollution:

    Weeks 1-8 Sustanon250 EOD
    Weeks 1-10 Primobolan Depot 400mg/wk
    Weeks 9-13 Winstrol depot 50mg ED
    Weeks 9-13 Trenbolone 75mg ED
    Weeks 1-10 .5mg Arimidex ED

    Clomid begining week 14...

    Drop the Deca and run the Sustanon like it is suppose to be run. Add Arimidex for less water retention. Primo for a good anabolic and solid gains. Winstrol and Tren to solidify and run as the Primo and Sust tapers off. The Winstrol will battle the progesterone of the Tren. The last month you should get hard and lose any water you did get from the Test.

    Opinions?

  18. #18
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    especially for your (5th?) cycle i think that 250mg sust per week is no good. Id go with the armidex if you want to keep bloat down. peace

  19. #19
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    Cheers Bro's

    ARIMIDEX IT IS!

  20. #20
    pumpseeker's Avatar
    pumpseeker is offline Senior Member
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    Arimidex or Liquidex at 1mg ED with that cycle and make sure you steer clear from sodium while on! Your bloating should be kept at a minimum if you are strict.

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