Thread: questions on fina vs wini
12-03-2002, 10:39 AM #1New Member
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- Dec 2002
questions on fina vs wini
i am a baseball player.....21, 6'2 fluctuate from 200-215 and have very good workout habits. some friends have suggested taking fina...i dont know anything about this specific steriod . ive heard it was a topically absorbed steriod. is this true? also how much does it cost and why would it be better to use than winstrol ? I am educated on most steriods but this is a new one to me so any help would be great. Thanks.
12-03-2002, 10:45 AM #2
Hey bro, have a look at BC's profile.
AAccording to many an opinion this drug delivers the best gains, qualitatively speaking, for money. You notice two names on top of this profile, but unfortunately finaject hasn't been made in quite a while now. Since 1987. This is quite a shame. Both Finaplix and finaject are veterinary steroids and were readily and easily available for democratic prices. Finaject was an injectable and provided you could find a sterile source it was quite convenient. Now only finaplix remains as the original source of trenbolone acetate. The Ttokkyo brand trenbol75 surfaces from time to time as well, but its derived from the same material, though qualitatively not as pure. The problem with finaplix as opposed to finaject is that it comes in veterinary implant pellets, and trust me, you don't want to get one of these babies shot in your butt. So it needs to be converted to either a transdermal (often using DMSO) or an injectable. There are kits to achieve both. Trenbolone nasal sprays are gaining popularity as well.
Trenbolone acetate is rather short-acting but well liked because of its great availability and price. The alternative is the limited availability of Parabolan , a longer-acting trenbolone ester made for human use. Unfortunately certain lots only surface from time to time and they never sell cheap. They do act quite a bit longer. Parabolan (trenbolone as hexahydrobencylcarbonate) has the half-life of an enanthate meaning it requires less frequent injections. One of the major problems with finaplix however is that beginners making sterile injectable compounds isn't a wishful thing, and often leads to abscesses and infections.
The fun with Fina is that it causes small, well-maintainable and quality gains. Naturally it won't give you the sort of mass that testosterone or methandrostenolone would give, but it makes up for it by adding only quality mass (no estrogen formation, so no fat and water retention) which is quite easy to keep on your frame. In contradiction to many aromatizing steroids such as testosterone where a large portion of the gained mass is quickly lost again after discontinuation of the product.
It's also a very versatile product that can be used in a lot of different ways. One could easily stack it with testosterone, anadrol or dianabol for mass gains where the actions of trenbolone cause severe strength gains and add some quality to the mass. Since trenbolone was found to be roughly 3 to 4 times as anabolic as most testosterone esters it quite easily boosts strength over short periods of time. It acts well on the androgen receptor with as a result that it can have certain side-effects. Most notably the normal androgenic side-effects such as increased acne and a risk for prostate hypertrophy, definitely increased aggression leading to roid rage in prolonged use of high doses and in some cases an aggravation of an existing hair loss problem.
On the other hand trenbolone just as easily combines with stanozolol or methenolone for purposes of reducing body-fat. Bill Roberts recently claimed that trenbolone doesn't reduce body-fat and that nothing in the literature proves it does. But I beg to differ. Either Mr.Roberts isn't too bright or he doesn't know how to perform a medline search, since after a mere minute of searching I found a study1 that clearly documented the fat-loss aspects of trenbolone acetate. It clearly concluded (even said so in the abstract) that trenbolone does indeed reduce body-fat (as androgens do, we discuss this in our profile of Masteron ), but only when not competing with circulating estrogen. This means as a fat-loss agonist, trenbolone is best used late in a cycle and only combined with non-aromatizing steroids since it competes with circulating estradiol. Body-fat percentage when cutting would drop regardless, simply because of the qualitative lean mass gain made while no extra body-fat is deposited.
And finally in doses of 50-100 mg daily, trenbolone acetate can be used just fine by itself and quite favorably. In fact for people starting out, not too concerned with the side-effects and looking solely for a quality increase in lean muscle, small doses of fina (50mg/day injectable) would be very suitable.
The mechanism by which trenbolone mediates skeletal muscle hypertrophy is diversified and not very well understood. On the one hand trenbolone is a very active agonist of the androgen receptor, as illustrated by its increasing strength and aggression at the level it does. While this is a large contributor there is evidence that it mediates muscle growth by another pathway entirely2,3, namely the increasing of satellite cell sensitivity to an increase in IGF-1 (Insulin -Like growth factor 1) and FGF (Fibroblast growth factor). This would result in a much, much greater nutrient uptake and protein synthesis and explain why trenbolone is so much more potent in building lean muscle than other non-aromatizing, AR-mediated steroids like drostanolone and mesterolone.
In fact, in veterinary cycles the androgenic hypertrophy is regarded as the strongest of any steroid , which is why instead of using aromatizing compounds to enhance mass in cattle, they now inject them with products like Revalor-S, which contains trenbolone and estradiol, to make up for the lack of estrogenic mass accrual.
The points one may wish to consider during use of Fina is the low sterility of some home-brewed concoctions along with the already relatively painful injections (high alcohol content). This can lead to multiple problems when it is injected daily. Lumps due to plentiful same-site injections, abscesses and infections caused by faulty filtering and so on. Trenbolone is not particularly toxic though. Liver values are barely elevated while using it. Though there is no evidence or explanation to support this, some users reported a certain kidney-toxicity. Blood in urine and all that. While this was no doubt the result of a fake (Finaject used to be an often faked steroid shortly after its discontinuation) but I figured I'd mention it. Other than that mild androgenic effects such as acne and an increase in hair loss are noted as well.
For those seeking to use trenbolone there are many online sources on how to make injectable, transdermal and intranasal forms if you can get your hands on fina. Some sites even sell conversion kits that make the whole even easier.
Stacking and Use:
Trenbolone is relatively safe steroid all in all. There is some concern about kidney toxicity, but usually exaggerated. The beauty of trenbolone is that its one steroid that has it all : Its highly effective in its own, provides all lean gains which are fairly easy to maintain and isn't very prone to cause side-effects. Finaplix particularly provides you with a cheap source of trenbolone as well. The problem is making the cartridges into a sterile injectable or transdermal.
A transdermal is made quite easily. Option number one is simply to get your hands on some DMSO, mix up a 50/50 mix of DMSO and water, add in the crushed up fina pellets and apply to the skin. The second is to make an alcohol carrier. You can find the necessary products at any local pharmacy and the more you buy, the cheaper it gets. All of it perfectly legal, easy to obtain since pharmacies are supplied 5 times a day and not too expensive. You need ethanol (as pure as it gets, I use SD40) and Isopropyl Myristate (IPM), a mix of isopropyl alcohol and myristic acid. Mix up 70% ethanol and 30% IPM and dissolve 50 mg per ml trenbolone in your solution. Meaning if you had a solution of half a liter (500 ml) you could add in 25 grams of trenbolone. Again, simply apply and let it dry. These methods will give you roughly 25% absorption of trenbolone.
To get the maximum it is recommended that you inject the stuff of course, but that's slightly more complex as you need to get rid of a lot of the crap they put in these cartridges. You will need sterile oil, solvent (lipophillic), 1 empty sterile container, A syringe filter, two syringes and 2 18gauge needles. Start by putting your pellets in your solvent, and let it sit. You want the pellets to become completely undone and dissolved in your fluid. This is imperative. Shake it up real good and then let it sit for 12-48 hours to let all the crap sink to the bottom. Now take one of your syringes and start transferring the fluid into the sterile oil. You can decant as well, but you really don't want any of the crud on the bottom to make it into this solution, so using the syringe and doing it slowly is the best way. Now take your empty sterile container and use a new syringe to transfer the oil. Attach a syringe filter between syringe and needle and slowly put the oil into your container, slowly filtering it. For everytime you repeat this step you need uncouple the filter/needle from the syringe, or else dirt will gather at the wrong side of the filter and get into your solution. In fact, if your container is a vial its advised that you leave the needle in the vial with the filter on it and you just use the syringe to refill and filter. This solution is now fit to be injected. Its still advised to hold the syringe with the trenbolone under some hot streaming water before injecting first though.
One may also want to note that finaplix has decent oral availability as well. In fact, because of the acetate ester its transdermal availability is less than it would be for a pure steroid, so actually its oral potential is greater than its transdermal potential. When taking oral fina, to account for the difference in availability between this and injectable, one would have to consume 240 mg ( 3 times 4 pellets) every day for 6-8 weeks. But it does work and it saves you the time and cost of making a transdermal.
Nasal sprays and sublingual forms are also popular, and while they too have some minor success, they are the worst way to go. It's a steroid, and with the added ester its even more lipophillic. Since the mucous membranes in the mouth and nose only let hydrophilic substances through, the rate of absorption is extremely limited. Usually to achieve this cyclodextrins are used, sugars that are lipophillic on the inside and can hold a steroid inside, but are hydrophilic on the outside, making the whole absorbable through these channels. But since fina does not have this and most of us do not possess the skills to make cyclodextrin complexes in our own kitchens, this is not a path one should consider.
There is little or no need to stack secondary drugs with fina. It does not aromatize. There is some concern as to fina being progestagenic, so you should you opt to stack it with an aromatizable compound it may worsen potential gynocomastia so adding winstrol or Nolvadex , or even both to such a stack may be wise. But in itself or in a non-aromatizing stack this is not necessary. The use for post-cycle estrogen antagonists is limited as well, so Nolva or clomid to boost natural test will have little use. It is a very strong androgen receptor agonist however, so perhaps using some HCG after a cycle may help you retain more gains and prevent testicular shrinkage, but since HCG does increase estrogen that does reinstate the use of Nolvadex or clomid as well.
12-03-2002, 11:24 AM #3
baseball-I've never used winni before but have used fina and the results were great. Using dmso will give you a spinach like odor that everyone will tell you about. I would say to convert it and inject it.
12-03-2002, 04:41 PM #4New Member
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- Dec 2002
For sure INJECT! done both, dsmo wasn't near as good.....
12-03-2002, 09:06 PM #5
Inject, thats the only way to go.
12-14-2002, 08:25 PM #6
Fina w/ Winny - good stack.
12-15-2002, 10:41 AM #7
so far in my three cycles fina has always been incorporated and i have kept all of the weight i put on...currently im running tren /test and in one week put on 5lbs...probably water, but still means that this stuff works fast.
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