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  1. #1
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Feedback on Fina/Winny cycle plans

    The plan right now is to start april 1st about running..

    wk 1-7 75 mg/fina ed
    wk 2-7 50 mg/winny ed

    I am not looking to run test this cycle.

    I have milk thistle, tylers liver detox, and r-ala on hand

    I was planning to run nolva 20mg/ed during the cycle, and hit clomid 3 days off standard 300/100/50 and run 50 ed until I run out which is only 9 extra days.

    I was thinking that I would be taking 2 caps of milk thistle, 2 tylers, and 2 r-ala ED

    I don't wanna take chances with my liver!


    Any feedback would be great. Anything else I need, or what not.

  2. #2
    MBaraso's Avatar
    MBaraso is offline Retired Mod
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    I would throw some prop in there @ 100mgs eod. If you don't use some test you might run into problems downstairs.
    Why not run the Fina for 8 weeks and the winny for 6?

  3. #3
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    Adding some prop would make a great base to that cycle. I agree with baraso in that it would help with fina dick. Run prop for 10wks; fina for 8 and winny for 6. You could even throw some EQ in for 10wks.

  4. #4
    demetri's Avatar
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    How about some stats? From the dosage I'd say you must be the size of a horse.

    That cycle sounds like it would work really awsome on me though I'd drop the winny to EOD instead of ED.

  5. #5
    MBaraso's Avatar
    MBaraso is offline Retired Mod
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    Originally posted by demetri
    How about some stats? From the dosage I'd say you must be the size of a horse.

    That cycle sounds like it would work really awsome on me though I'd drop the winny to EOD instead of ED.
    75mgs of Fina ed and 50mgs of winny ed is a normal dosage.

  6. #6
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by MBaraso
    I would throw some prop in there @ 100mgs eod. If you don't use some test you might run into problems downstairs.
    Why not run the Fina for 8 weeks and the winny for 6?
    Hey bro, I know you know your shit, and I respect your opinion. Here's the deal though, I am not really concerned about fina dick, and I dont' think taht I will run into issues with it. If I do, I will get prop and start it asap. I doubt it will take more than a few days to get some if I do need it for that issue. But I have heard from many bros that they didn't experience fina dick... in fact some bros get more horny while on fina without prop.

    Also, the main reason that I want to leave the prop out is that I have about 15% bf and one of the big goals of this cycle is to loose bf% (don't spit at me the cardio/diet speech, I know, trust me I know) I am actually doing morning cardio 3x a week, and doing a very strict diet. It's actually quite remarkable that its working so well.... Anyways, I want to leave the prop out becasue I would prefer a zero-estrogen conversion. Fina/winny would make a killer shredder since I will gain lean muscle, no water retention, but also no inhibitors to one of my primary goals -- loosing bf on cycle.

    I'm not loosing for massive gains, I just want to gain lean (keepable gains), and loose bf. If I wanted more size, prop would be a definite.

  7. #7
    MBaraso's Avatar
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    Well if your just looking at this as a sheer cut cycle then Fina winny will be fine. But I would have a bottle of prop there just incase.
    Other then that looks good.
    Goodluck.

  8. #8
    demetri's Avatar
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    mmmm prop.

    I've been taking prop for two weeks and I've gotten leaner off of it and added 5 pounds to boot. Granted I'm doing a CKD and I'm holding a bit of water, but I'm impressed with the old prop.

    I'm only doing 50 mg every 3 days, I've also added some NPP as of yesterday (100 mg every 3 days).

    I went with the low test dosage as I'm a little paraniod about gyno, but my strength is up, I'm horny as hell, and I believe that low doses for longer work just fine.

    .... what I'm saying is that go for the prop. With the winny you're going to be holding SFA for water anyways and from what I've seen Prop works well in kicking off a little extra flab. Makes you hungry as hell though.

  9. #9
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    You are on the right track brah - the estrogen conversion from test won't help for your goals. Trenbolone with Test will give excellent gains from the added armoatizing androgen - but the estrogen makes fat loss less pronounced. One way to do it is to begin with Tren /Test (lean gains) and end with Tren/Win (fat loss).

    If you are simply looking for a 6 week cutter, Tren/Win is a good one. One with no added estrogen, extremely anti-catabloic and a marked effect on protein synthesis.

  10. #10
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Warrior
    You are on the right track brah - the estrogen conversion from test won't help for your goals. Trenbolone with Test will give excellent gains from the added armoatizing androgen - but the estrogen makes fat loss less pronounced. One way to do it is to begin with Tren /Test (lean gains) and end with Tren/Win (fat loss).

    If you are simply looking for a 6 week cutter, Tren/Win is a good one. One with no added estrogen, extremely anti-catabloic and a marked effect on <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> synthesis.
    Hey bro, if I got your support, I'm confident! I have read so much documentation on how estrogen conversion will make fat loss difficult. In so far as my goals are set, prop would be a detriment. How is your final part of your cycle coming along?

  11. #11
    demetri's Avatar
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    Question Estrogen

    Yes estrogens make burning off fat a little bit harder but conversly testosterone is simply one of the best metabolizers of fat out there. I think that's why there’s a difference between the Ms. Olympia contestants and Olympia Dukakis.

    Oil tests have a reputation for making you "hold" water but that’s a little bit different than holding a ton of fat on your ass. Fast acting tests are more likely to convert to estrogens, but I think that's something that happens on high doses. Mind you though I haven't seen too many guys on a gram of test a week that get fatter.

    I've added some tamoxifen citrate to my current diet to see how that compares to dieting without any estrogen blockers.

    I'm not saying that the fina/winny cycle isn't good for cutting. Fina is great for cutting; winny on the other hand doesn't actually burn off any fat. You hold less water and look fantastic (if you're semi lean), but you still have to be cognisant of what you're eating. Winny does make you more likely to gain muscle than fat of course, it just doesn't IMO stimulate any pronounced fat loss.

    Either way I think that adding a little bit of test can only help with the fat loss.

  12. #12
    Warrior's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rampage76


    Hey bro, if I got your support, I'm confident! I have read so much documentation on how estrogen conversion will make fat loss difficult. In so far as my goals are set, prop would be a detriment. How is your final part of your cycle coming along?
    Yeah - you can find abstracts on testosterone adding overall mass [including fat mass] to subjects in many JOURNALS, like andrology.

    But mine is good... really good. I will be upping the cardio and might change to more of a deffinition training split for the final days.

    My results while dieting down and upping cardio with Tren /Test where very good... and fast. I gained lots of lean wieght in that 40 days of Tren/Test but also gained overall bodyweight and water. Face filled out from the test - no doubt. Was only doing 50mg ED of prop too.

    When I switched over to Tren/Win on day 41, the water dropped and revealed the last 40 days quite well... and fat loss became more evident. And right now Tren/Win has done an excellent job in retaining muscle in what would otherwise be a very catabolic situation (for example 60 min of cardio at 255lbs). Which has helped a lot in carving away at stored fat... Your body doesn't want to be big and lean at the same time - not naturally... one or the other based on ions of evolution. And having abs at well over 250 lbs is pretty good results in my opinion...

    Good stack.

    Bottomline - from my experimentation with it... Tren/Test goals = overall mass gains/strength. Tren/Win goals = muscle sparing for cutting w/ some lean gains.
    Last edited by Warrior; 03-01-2003 at 01:48 PM.

  13. #13
    m16a2 is offline Senior Member
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    Warrior, it sounds perfect then bro. Not dismissing what the other bros said about contingency planning, but hopefully everything will go smooth. Off I go to hit the morning,pre-meal cardio

    Thanks

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