The Homestretch...final checks and q's before my journey to the darkside begins

**BigGreen** · 04-02-2003, 02:13 PM

Well, here it is; my solidified and finalized cycle plan. I’m submitting it in the hopes that I’ll get a bit of feedback as well as some general questions answered. First off, I think there may be a fair amount of criticism regarding the length (18 weeks). Rest assured this is a VERY pragmatic and thoroughly researched decision – though I’d still love to hear opinions to the contrary. Secondly, I may be criticized for wanting to eat my cake and have it too, so to speak. The cycle (below) is intended to serve for approximately twelve weeks as a classic bulker, before shifting to a cutter for the final six. I fully realize I can’t have the best of both worlds, but for my competitive aspirations (local, at present) it makes sense in addition to my believing (and the details will be explained in the detailed diary I’ll be keeping hoping to do some justice to the fine tradition majorpecs as initiated) that it will, ultimately, aid in post cycle recovery. Most of my stats are in the profile, if there’s anything not covered there to your liking, I’ll be happy to address it. So, without further delay:

Weeks 1-15 Test Enan @500mg/wk
Weeks 1-10 Deca @300mg/wk (I’m intentionally keeping it a *bit* lower than the norm)
Weeks 1-4 Dbol @35mg/day
Weeks 11-18 Fina @75mg/day
Weeks 14-18 Winny @50mg/day
•Liquidex throughout at .5mg/day
•Enough Nolva on hand to start at day 2 if the situation arose
•Clomid (standard 300mg for day 1, 10 days of 100 and 10 days of 50)
•Bromo on hand (with fina coming right after deca I’ll feel safer with it, even at the lower dose of deca)
•Liver protectant (standard)

The few questions I have are these:
Should clomid therapy be manipulated at all or changed given the length of cycle? At 18, which is by no means absurdly long, I’ve gathered the normal standard applies, but I’d like to be certain.
With regards to bromo, there isn’t a whole lot in the archives dictating the methodology with which one employs it to battle progesterone gyno. I assume its use closely mimics that of Nolva? I’d really appreciate some feedback on this, as it is the one aspect of my cycle I feel I am not sufficiently versed in, and I will not act on ordering, let alone injecting, until I am sure of each and every component insofar as that is possible given this game.

If all goes well the order goes in this weekend. Looking forward not only to the cycle, but to the journal as well. Pretty soon, I’ll be a genuine contributing member, if you can believe that!

**dizzle** · 04-02-2003, 04:24 PM

I might suggest using a little HCG in that cycle since it's a little longer.

**nj_** · 04-02-2003, 04:28 PM

Start with a 1/4 tab of bromo, I would not go above 1.25mg in a dose, you might be able to get by with 1.25mg ED, unless you're sensitive to gyno in which case you may have to dose 1.25mg 2xED. A lot of people overdose the bromo, I know people that can get by with a 1/4 tab EOD so if you can get by with that dose, I'd definitely suggest it. I'd also second the motion to add some HCG .

**BigGreen** · 04-02-2003, 04:37 PM

NJ...it seems you're suggesting (and I could be interpreting this incorrectly) that the bromo would be run like liquidex as opposed to the nolva - ie, throughout cycle as a preventitive agent as opposed to a reactionary one as is the case with nolva. Would you mind clearing that up a bit if you don't mind?

As far as the HCG goes, i've heard decent arguments on either side of the fence, and 16-18 weeks seems to be where the divide stands as to whether it's a necessity or not. I'd been leaning towards not using it, but i'll give it a second look. I'd like to finalize plans by friday and order Monday ideally. But, again, only fools rush in.

**gettinthere** · 04-02-2003, 05:07 PM

this is your first cycle? IMO you will see great gains for the first 8-10 then things will slow and stop. I dont recommend doing such a long cycle as your first because youre not sure how you will react as far as growth, liver, and shutting down.

jmo

**BigGreen** · 04-02-2003, 05:17 PM

Gettinthere....yes it is. However, following majorpecs' diary, as well as having conducted a great deal of research, I'm convinced a *slightly* longer cycle might be the way to go for a variety of reasons. Of course, in the event I'm incorrect, there are two or three very tenable contingency plans in place. I'll be closely monitoring my body throughout, and in the event things don't seem to be going according to plan (or slowing down as you suggest) I will cut it at ten weeks and it will simply have been a nice ten weeker with test and deca (wit the dbol as well). If things are going good, but not great, I will elect to leave out the fina, run the test and deca up to 12 weeks, then the winny for three weeks alone, two with the test and deca. I've purposely kept it very organic and not at all set in stone.

Also, would you mind telling me why you think gains slow and stop at 8-10 weeks; i'd be extremely interested to know as that would certainly change things. Again, thanks for the feedback.

**painintheazz** · 04-02-2003, 06:21 PM

I like it, it is a little long IMO for a first cycle but you have stated your reason as to why you want it to be long so that is fine. I would take HCG , I just took HCG with my 12 weeker and I feel the best I have ever felt after a cycle. I know you are not supposed to take HCG a lot, but I think it will be fine.

Pain

**956Vette** · 04-02-2003, 06:40 PM

hey big green. I think its great that you researched up so well before your first cycle! Definately give you props for that. I think it looks like a great cycle. However, it being your first cycle and all, it does look a bit long. The risk/benefit ratio seems a little ify to me, but i wish you the best bro!

**BigGreen** · 04-02-2003, 06:47 PM

Well, I said (to myself) going into this that the consensus of the board outweighed my own theories and suspicions, so I'm going to modify the cycle to reflect the following, given the advice I've been given and save that one for next year. Honestly, I was never really keen on the idea of fina for a first run, but was sold on the idea from a variety of (informational) sources.

Weeks 1-4 Dbol
Weeks 1-12 Test
Weeks 1-12 Deca
Weeks 11-15 Winny
Liquidex plan stays the same throughout...as does every other aspect. I think this is more reasonable if I force myself to view this objectively. I'll still be employing the same philosophy of an aggressive cut towards the very end, as I think this will ultimately assist post cycle recovery (it's a long story that I've shared with a few). So, thanks for the feedback all...that's why i love this place, it forces you to be reasonable in the face of your own ambitions which all too often get carried away.

PS: getting somewhat ambitious like that is just my MO. I was cut from my high school b-ball team as a frosh and ended up making one of the region's most elite traveling teams two years later (playing with and against several future NBA players). Additionally, I was told by my guidance counselor to scrap my college plans and ended up (after an arduous journey) at an ivy league school...so it's my nature to go above like that. However, given that this is my health, not b-ball or academics, i'll defer to reason. Thanks all

**majorpecs** · 04-02-2003, 07:05 PM

I think for one thing that BigGreen is a very intelligent guy, and I know for a fact he's been doing his research. I did a 22 week cycle for my first..and do you know what? This is my 22nd week, and I'm still making gains..in fact, I think some of my best gains came after the normal 12 week mark.

My cycle was about 60/40 bulking to cutting...I put on 30lb's at my peak..then started cutting up and have dropped almost 20..Keep in mind that my bodyfat was very high when I started the cycle, and is ALOT lower now, so those numbers don't do me justice.

Big Green, I would def. think about throwing in some HCG . I didn't, and now that it's time for recovery and I got some raisins to work with, I wish I did. I'd at least have some on hand just in case. As for the bromo, I'd venture to say that you are safe going without it, but if you can get it, then by all means do so. Pheedno could probably answer any questions you had about that stuff.

Regardless...let us know your final decision, keep a great journal, and GOOD LUCK!!!!

**Rickson** · 04-02-2003, 08:46 PM

Triple all your dosages and I will love it. Actually I don't see anything wrong with a long cycle. If you don't react well you will no long before the eighteen week mark. I don't suggest using bromo unless you need it personally. It has some nasty sides for me. HCG might not be a bad idea and clomid can stay the same. PM me if you have any specific questions. Otherwise good luck with your first cycle.

**BigGreen** · 04-02-2003, 08:57 PM

Guys, I can't say enough how much i appreciate the insight and feedback. I've said from the beginning of this planning that Major's cycle, the reasoning behind it (synthesized with my own research and thoughts on the matter) led me to believe in this as a not altogether unreasonable first cycle. I am having some thoughts at this point...but as Rickson states, I'll be aware well before week 18 if things aren't going well, and have a few contingincies in mind should that occur. I've attempted to start a thread debating the one big concern (http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...threadid=48582) of mine...that being whether a long cycle as your first necessarily diminishes the effectiveness of subsequent "normal" length cycles.

Oh, and Major, thanks for the support regarding the "brainpower"...do you want to write one of my law school recommendations next year?