tren somnia......

**1gearhead** · 01-14-2013, 04:00 PM

Usually i run my prop and my tren at the same dosages... This cycle i figured i would try as others have said less test more tren..... So i knew where tren works i just cut the prop back to a trt dose...... Ugg... All i want to do is sleep... I prefer the night sweats and insomnia to this..... Always drowsy sucks..... Anyone else experience this???? Maybe its something else entirely... Idk.. Im going to bump up the prop see if it fixes it...

**ironbeck** · 01-14-2013, 05:03 PM

Sounds like u need to redial your AI in...every time u change your dose the bodyhas to make changes due to changes of mg in the blood, so your e2 lvs are rollercostering.

**600@50** · 01-14-2013, 05:19 PM

Time to get bw gearhead. Only way to tell what you need to adjust.

**ironbeck** · 01-14-2013, 05:22 PM

For those of us that can't run the the doc for blood work every time we want unless we want to pay a G a pop out of pocket, trial and error is your best bet, just do small increments in your AI adjustments.

**1gearhead** · 01-14-2013, 08:02 PM

Ironbeck thanks for chiming in really think its the ai???? Maybe i am dosed to high on that i went with what i always do even with the lower dose...... Damn never even gave that a consideration..... Ive done my prop tren cycles so many times but never this way... Maybe ill cut to eod with same dose on my ai and see what happens first before bumping my prop

**Lunk1** · 01-14-2013, 08:15 PM

Actually this is one of the issues that STpete and I have discussed as to why he is an advocate of higher Test. Higher test will help with lethargy and those that have issues eating while on tren . It's a decision one has to make as there are issues both ways!

Also as Ironbeck said...often if someones test dose is low enough an AI may not even be neccessary and only Caber or Prami would need to be used in that case. Consider if your test dose is just enough to bring you within normal range and Tren doesnt aromatize then why would an AI even be needed???

**600@50** · 01-14-2013, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by ironbeck

For those of us that can't run the the doc for blood work every time we want unless we want to pay a G a pop out of pocket, trial and error is your best bet, just do small increments in your AI adjustments.

For you guys in the US you can go to an online lab (privatemdlabs) for your bw. Cost is quite reasonable. You get your results in usually 2 or 3 days.

**MuttonChop** · 01-14-2013, 09:19 PM

People just mess around too much with AI and other shit. DONT ADD MORE chemicals to your body to get it to work better. Higher estrogen = lethargy? Wtf?

Tren is known to cause lethargy. The fact that test just happened to be lower than tren this time around might have nothing to do with it. There are waaay to many interconnected systems in the body to pinpoint one hormone as the culprit.

In fact, I highly suspect that you got some GOOD tren this time around.

**warmouth** · 01-14-2013, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by MuttonChop

People just mess around too much with AI and other shit. DONT ADD MORE chemicals to your body to get it to work better. Higher estrogen = lethargy? Wtf?

Tren is known to cause lethargy. The fact that test just happened to be lower than tren this time around might have nothing to do with it. There are waaay to many interconnected systems in the body to pinpoint one hormone as the culprit.

In fact, I highly suspect that you got some GOOD tren this time around.

You you are saying no to an AI? If someone is willing to "mess around" with AAS, they should be responsible enough to "mess around with an AI and other sh*t". If you are going to introduce an enormous amount of hormones, especially one that is not a natural one in the human body, you'd best be useing something to help combat any health risks that may arise. You know, gyno isnt the only bad side effect of AAS?

**MuscleInk** · 01-14-2013, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by warmouth

You you are saying no to an AI? If someone is willing to "mess around" with AAS, they should be responsible enough to "mess around with an AI and other sh*t". If you are going to introduce an enormous amount of hormones, especially one that is not a natural one in the human body, you'd best be useing something to help combat any health risks that may arise. You know, gyno isnt the only bad side effect of AAS?

Agreed. I'd like to hear more on this "no-AI" proposition. I agree with what Pete and Lunk are saying about tren & test doses but I wouldn't rush to the argument that an AI isn't needed.

**OnTheSauce** · 01-14-2013, 10:00 PM

I don't use an ai. 210mg test e a week. And 700 to 1000 Tren . Feel great

**MuttonChop** · 01-14-2013, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Agreed. I'd like to hear more on this "no-AI" proposition. I agree with what Pete and Lunk are saying about tren & test doses but I wouldn't rush to the argument that an AI isn't needed.

I should have been more clear: I was addressing ironbeck: Estrogen has not been linked to lethargy. Messing with the AI to fix lethargy due to some unknown estrogen mechanism is as good as shooting arrows in the dark. This will cause more "rollercoasting". I would rather recommend keeping the AI stable until your esters have reached peak blood level and then messing around with it. Stick with a dosage during the climb to the peak.

And then Lunk comes in with his "Higher test will help with lethargy and those that have issues eating while on tren ." Please don't state this as fact. This has not been proven. A wise person would have prefaced that with "In my humble opinion, this is what happens with MY body...blahblahblah...so perhaps you should give it a try". I am more worried about the other lurkers on this forum who might store away "facts" based on a person's high post count...

**Sgt. Hartman** · 01-14-2013, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by MuttonChop

I should have been more clear: I was addressing ironbeck: Estrogen has not been linked to lethargy.

Actually low/crashed estrogen has been linked with extreme lethargy. Which is why iron beck was suggesting he lower is AI dose since he's running test so low.

**Lunk1** · 01-14-2013, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by MuttonChop

I should have been more clear: I was addressing ironbeck: Estrogen has not been linked to lethargy. Messing with the AI to fix lethargy due to some unknown estrogen mechanism is as good as shooting arrows in the dark. This will cause more "rollercoasting". I would rather recommend keeping the AI stable until your esters have reached peak blood level and then messing around with it. Stick with a dosage during the climb to the peak.

And then Lunk comes in with his "Higher test will help with lethargy and those that have issues eating while on tren." Please don't state this as fact. This has not been proven. A wise person would have prefaced that with "In my humble opinion, this is what happens with MY body...blahblahblah...so perhaps you should give it a try". I am more worried about the other lurkers on this forum who might store away "facts" based on a person's high post count...

Tell ya what ill do there porkchop! Ill send every post I make to you for review before actually posting! Then you can tell me what I actually should be saying! Tren causes lethargy in lots of users. Its a well known side effect! Proven medically? Uh...no! Since Tren has never been approved for human use there is very little medical documentation and "proof" of anything tren related. Human research is right her on this board. The number of tren cycles I have done along with the other members who have numerous tren cycles under their belt. If your looking to argue for the sake of arguing...no prob. I got time! Their simply is not medical research on
Everything AAS related when speaking in terms of body builder doses. We (the users) become the best source of info in many cases.
Feel free to tell me how I should have worded this as well. Oh...my post count has nothing to do with my experience using tren!

**t-dogg** · 01-15-2013, 12:18 AM

^^^^^

Lol

**MuttonChop** · 01-15-2013, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Tell ya what ill do there porkchop! Ill send every post I make to you for review before actually posting! Then you can tell me what I actually should be saying! Tren causes lethargy in lots of users. Its a well known side effect! Proven medically? Uh...no! Since Tren has never been approved for human use there is very little medical documentation and "proof" of anything tren related. Human research is right her on this board. The number of tren cycles I have done along with the other members who have numerous tren cycles under their belt. If your looking to argue for the sake of arguing...no prob. I got time! Their simply is not medical research on
Everything AAS related when speaking in terms of body builder doses. We (the users) become the best source of info in many cases.
Feel free to tell me how I should have worded this as well. Oh...my post count has nothing to do with my experience using tren!

Let me get this Lunk...you stand by the statement that adding more test to a tren cycle will reduce lethargy? Even if this was the case, you don't take into consideration that one can find more people on this board that attest that there are more sides when combining tren with high doses of test than vice versa?

I actually do have beef with the way you "help" a lot of people on these forums. You make everything sound black and white while in fact, everything is a gray area. Your supreme overconfidence in yourself leaks through in your posts. It wouldn't matter much...if not for the fact that a lot of people will potentially take your words as gospel GIVEN your high post count.

And oh btw...nice name calling...classic playground mentality...keep it up.

**Lunk1** · 01-15-2013, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by MuttonChop

Let me get this Lunk...you stand by the statement that adding more test to a tren cycle will reduce lethargy? Even if this was the case, you don't take into consideration that one can find more people on this board that attest that there are more sides when combining tren with high doses of test than vice versa?

I actually do have beef with the way you "help" a lot of people on these forums. You make everything sound black and white while in fact, everything is a gray area. Your supreme overconfidence in yourself leaks through in your posts. It wouldn't matter much...if not for the fact that a lot of people will potentially take your words as gospel GIVEN your high post count.

And oh btw...nice name calling...classic playground mentality...keep it up.

Ok...since you seem to want to come at me...come on ahead! When ppl come on here I highly doubt they concern themselves a ton with someones post count (at least not nearly as much as you seem to)! None of us are "experts and we all offer our advise based on our experience...given that fact I shouldn't have to preface every statement I make with "in my experience" or "this works for me but maybe NOT for you"!

I am an advocate of high tren/low test but have run it at higher, lower and equal. I don't speak from lab studies performed on mice and farm animals! I speak from true experience, which in my book is much better any day! I'm sorry if you don't like the way I "help" ppl but let there be no mistake...I have helped many in my short time here (hence the post count that seems to get under your skin). How do I know? because I recieve the feedback telling me that my advise helped!

By the way..I am also well aware of the sides associated with higher test and I am well aware that they can be controlled through proper regulation of E2 levels! Higher test doses CAN indeed help with lethargy associated with Tren and it can help increase the appetite of those who's appetite is effected by tren...is that the gospel? Of course not! we all know that not everyone is effected the same by each compound...hell I have run tren at 700mg and ate like a friggin horse (lethargy did increase for sure) and never had any ED issues BUT, not everyone is effected the same! Some simply can not run 19nors at all. It's as if their body rejects the compound! But christ I am not going to write a figgin novel everytime I answer the same question day in and day out!

Although...in reality, it would seem by your use of "help" quotes, I shouldn't be answering anybodies questions! Best!

**Papa-pwn** · 01-15-2013, 02:20 PM

.125mg Prami knocks me out in 45 minutes when I'm on tren

**MuttonChop** · 01-15-2013, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Ok...since you seem to want to come at me...come on ahead! When ppl come on here I highly doubt they concern themselves a ton with someones post count (at least not nearly as much as you seem to)! None of us are "experts and we all offer our advise based on our experience...given that fact I shouldn't have to preface every statement I make with "in my experience" or "this works for me but maybe NOT for you"!

I am an advocate of high tren /low test but have run it at higher, lower and equal. I don't speak from lab studies performed on mice and farm animals! I speak from true experience, which in my book is much better any day! I'm sorry if you don't like the way I "help" ppl but let there be no mistake...I have helped many in my short time here (hence the post count that seems to get under your skin). How do I know? because I recieve the feedback telling me that my advise helped!

By the way..I am also well aware of the sides associated with higher test and I am well aware that they can be controlled through proper regulation of E2 levels! Higher test doses CAN indeed help with lethargy associated with Tren and it can help increase the appetite of those who's appetite is effected by tren...is that the gospel? Of course not! we all know that not everyone is effected the same by each compound...hell I have run tren at 700mg and ate like a friggin horse (lethargy did increase for sure) and never had any ED issues BUT, not everyone is effected the same! Some simply can not run 19nors at all. It's as if their body rejects the compound! But christ I am not going to write a figgin novel everytime I answer the same question day in and day out!

Although...in reality, it would seem by your use of "help" quotes, I shouldn't be answering anybodies questions! Best!

First of all, I apologize for getting all worked up. I would blame it on the Tren I am on but that would be the easy way out. Mate, the way you explained it here is finally perfect.

I am not your parent so it is not my place to be telling you how to write a post. I just hope you understand the difference between "Higher test than tren WILL help" and "Higher Test than Tren MIGHT help".

I understand that it can get tiring reading the same darn newbie questions over and over again, but no answer is better than a half-assed answer.

Again, it is not my place to be telling you what to and how to write. I guess I am still a bit pissed off at you from my old Methyltrieolone thread. Truth be told, you have proved that you are extremely knowledgeable of AAS and your experience is worthy of respect. It is just the way some of your posts came through that got to me.

/Bowout

**1gearhead** · 01-18-2013, 02:52 PM

Ok update on my situation..... Cutting my ai in half... And bumping my test dosage up an additional 200mg a week has appeared to make the difference.... In the past ive done my test and tren at the same dosage.... This cycle i tried something different i tried to do just 200mg test a week and 700mg tren... It didnt work so great... A little bit of tweaking and i solved my problems... I also suspect my prior gear was underdosed.. This gear i brewed has been amazing... This may have been part of my issue as well... But either way im dialed in now and know what to do next for my next cycle... I think ive used way more test in the past than i needed too...