A non bulking cycle

[ineedauser]

I can't seem to find a cycle that won't promote weight gain. Everyone keeps saying it's diet based but the common result in all the research i've done is weight gain. What kind of cycle would not promote weight gain? More of a pure strength/lean muscle mass cycle. Would that be a test/Var cycle with limited but clean calories?

[Gaspaco]

Hey man!

What is your purpose of cycling if you don't want to gain weight?

Steroids are building muscle mass and that means weight!

[ineedauser]

I'm already 5'7" 185lbs. I'd prefer to just get stronger at my weight. I'm about 11-12% body fat. I'd like to increase all my lifts and get the bodyfat down to sub 10s. It might seem silly to you but I like being strong for my weight.

[Euroholic]

Keep training try using HIT style. Something diffrent to shock your body into gaining strength. Gaining strength takes time. Im quite weak for my size but i gain musscle easly. 2nd thought most powerlifters use very low reps just try doing that.

[Tron3219]

The strength gains more then likely will not stay after you discontinue use. And if ur 11 or 12%, a good diet will get you there in minimal time.

-TroN-

[ineedauser]

Right now my diet is pretty solid. Very clean and at around 3700-4000 calories a day. Tons of fish, grilled chicken, and oatmeal.

I do HIT training. Always have actually... Max effort lifting is how I was brought up in the gym. I just wanna get leaner/stronger. If I end up 195lbs, I'm ok with that. But being 205 or so would make me a bit bigger than id like to be!

[Gaspaco]

If your training and diet are good you will be gaining weight during cycle.

But if you want to get stronger, agree with guys you should try powerlifters workouts plans, HIT...

You don't need gear to achieve it!

[ineedauser]

The strength actually comes on kinda easy. Strength gaining was never really an issue. I just want more of it. Haha. I wanna squat 500lbs and bench 350 raw at 185-190 while still being able to have my standing 36" vert and a sub 4.8 40. I don't train for those. I will do them every so often to see if I can still perform functionally and not just in the gym.

[Tron3219]

Right now my diet is pretty solid. Very clean and at around 3700-4000 calories a day. Tons of fish, grilled chicken, and oatmeal.

I do HIT training. Always have actually... Max effort lifting is how I was brought up in the gym. I just wanna get leaner/stronger. If I end up 195lbs, I'm ok with that. But being 205 or so would make me a bit bigger than id like to be!

Well, if u want to get leaner, your going to have to go into a deficit. And 3700-4000 is WELL above your tdee. If ur strength has plateaued, u can try and change up ur routine as stated above or engage hypertrophy. Which means bigger, thicker, stronger muscle fibers.
10 pounds of lbm is a substantial amount of growth. When ppl gain 20 pounds on cycle, most of the time it's fat (because they're in a surplus) or water weight.
So my advice would b to choose a goal, get leaner (deficit) or get bigger (surplus).

-TroN-

[Gaspaco]

Looks like you have nice goal to achieve!

Good luck mate, you will do it!

[ineedauser]

Thanks for the encouragement, Gas!


Problem is that if I eat less than I am, I lose weight and kinda fast. I do not wanna lose weight. I wanna gain a little and maintain. Sounds like you're saying there is no way to do what I want?

[Tron3219]

Thanks for the encouragement, Gas!

Problem is that if I eat less than I am, I lose weight and kinda fast. I do not wanna lose weight. I wanna gain a little and maintain. Sounds like you're saying there is no way to do what I want?

U said, and I quote, "I just want to get leaner/stronger".....

Now u say I don't want to lose weight...what do u think happens when you get leaner?

It would make it much easier for ppl to help u if u made up ur mind.

And there is a way to get leaner/bigger, but it's like the holy grail and requires pretty extensive nutrition and physiology knowledge.

-TroN-

[ineedauser]

Why do I have to lose weight to get leaner? Isn't that what lean muscle mass is? So my mind is made up. You clearly didn't understand my question.

I am looking for a way to put on a few pounds at most but dropping body fat and getting stronger. Usually the result of lean muscle mass anyway.

[Tron3219]

Why do I have to lose weight to get leaner? Isn't that what lean muscle mass is? So my mind is made up. You clearly didn't understand my question.

I am looking for a way to put on a few pounds at most but dropping body fat and getting stronger. Usually the result of lean muscle mass anyway.

To b leaner, you must lose body fat. That's losing weight. To put on a few pounds, that's gaining wait. These goals are most easily ascertained but doing them separately. You can attempt a body recomp, which is just that. But it almost as difficult as pointing ur index fingers at each other and making them go in an opposite direction. It can b done, but very very difficult.

-TroN-

[Metalject]

Yes, you can increase your strength without gaining weight or while at least keeping weight gain minimal. If that wasn't the case countless athletes wouldn't use steroids for that very purpose. There are plenty of athletes that use gear without the desire to gain weight. I've said it many times before, gaining weight is not the only reason to use gear, it's just the one purpose of use most are familiar with or seem to understand.

Like others have said, diet dictates a lot. This is pretty obvious though IMO. Low doses of steroids like Anavar , Winstrol , Primobolan and even Masteron along with a minimal TRT dose of test could easily provide you with what you're looking for.

[555mjolnir]

Why do I have to lose weight to get leaner? Isn't that what lean muscle mass is? So my mind is made up. You clearly didn't understand my question.

I am looking for a way to put on a few pounds at most but dropping body fat and getting stronger. Usually the result of lean muscle mass anyway.

I need to clarify. So you don't want weight gain? You don't want to loose weight? Do you understand that increase in muscle qualifies as a gain in weight? You can weigh the same amount if your lose of fat = gain in muscle, do you understand this?

This is how it works, not meaning to talk down to you just going to explain it as simply as I can, ok?
AAS affects how your body will "shuttle nutrients" or synthesize calories put in to your body, thus cause your body to build/ gain muscle by using protein more efficiently. This being said DIET is most important, not just what you eat, but when, and how much. Meaning if you ate 3500 cals in one setting your body can't use it all right then, that's why 6-8 meals a day are recommended and some eat more. these aren't 2000 calorie meals take your bmr + energy used each day in activity to find your tdee (total daily energy expenditure) this this an approximation of what your body needs to maintain, then tweak this number by a few hundred calories a day to gain or loose weight. By adjusting macros (protein, carbs, and fat yes fat) you adjust the composition of your body. does this make sense?

I would hit the diet section 1st. Then I would hit profiles section and read there, different AAS will affect the body different b/c of their structure on a molecular scale. By their very nature they all affect the body differently, some convert estrogen and some to prolactin (spelled wrong sorry ) these are the side effects. But it is unrealistic to think you that you will find a compound that won't cause some kind of gain? this Gain could be LBM or Fat or H2o but you will gain something, make sense? If you loose fat and gain muscle then of equal amounts this would be a gain in muscle so that's why they say this or that compound is used to gain or bulk. Hope this helps.
There a lot fellows here with more experience than myself so if any of this is incorrect please correct me, but this is what I know and understand. GOOD LUCK READ UP STICK AROUND.

ADDing this. more muscle = more strength more LBM = higher fat burning = thinner body, and dropping weight makes your stronger pound for pound, it is way more impressive to see a guy 175 pushing 315 lbs than a guy 220 right?

[songdog]

I will let you guys suffer through this headache.I had a wife like this once.She didnt last long

[AnabolicDoc]

I can't seem to find a cycle that won't promote weight gain. Everyone keeps saying it's diet based but the common result in all the research i've done is weight gain. What kind of cycle would not promote weight gain? More of a pure strength/lean muscle mass cycle. Would that be a test/Var cycle with limited but clean calories?

Have you considered low dose test (under 200mg/week) with either winnie, primo, or masteron ? I've heard from some that you'll only see good results with primo or mast if you're under 10% bf but maybe you're close enough or can get there with diet +/- cardio. I don't think you'd see big mass gains from any of the above three combos. I don't know your AAS history but some advanced users in your situation (and with your goals) might consider low dose test with either primo or mast and also add winnie. Just make sure you're not prone to prostate enlargement or hair loss.

[ineedauser]

Yea, I have. A member was nice enough to help me out with a routine.

250mg/week for 12 weeks
100mg of Var a day for 8 weeks
NAC at 600mg a day for 8 weeks
Arimidex 3 times a week (forgot dosage)
500iu's of HCG a week from weeks 6-14.
Nolva/Clomid for PCT. 4 weeks a piece