First cycle, sust vs enanthate, cialis?

[Liviu]

Hello everyone. I would like to thank you first for the information this forum provides, special thanks to austinite for making such great topics for the newbies.

I started my first cycle this week on Monday. Due to the absence of original test-e in my country i had to buy sustanol instead. So my cycle looks like:

1-12 week = 250mg sustanol x2 per week
1-12 week = 250mg hcg x2 per week (same injection with sust)
15(16) -18(19) week = clomid and nolva (as it states in the beginner topic)

haven't got my AI yet, i want to see my blood work after 2 weeks of use so I can be more accurate with the dosing.

So my questions are:
1) can i change after 6 weeks of use sust to test-e ? (Same dose of 500mg per week) thats when i will be able to buy it, or just stick to sust till end?
I don't like the idea to wait 3 weeks after last injection of sust to start my PCT, plus I have seen that most of you like test-e more than sust.
2) decided to buy cialis, best deal found on ar-r . But it is in liquid form, how to take it if the dose is 5mg per day? I have to take 1/6 of 1ml, how can i be so accurate? Or just find a more expensive deal but in caps?

UPDATE !!!

After 3 weeks on cycle I decided to check my blood work. I am on 500mg of sust 250, HCG and 25mg of aromasin everyday. I am 26 and at about 15% b/f.

(range)
Test - >52,05 nmol/l (9.9 - 27.8)
Free test - 0.573 nmol/l (0.015-0.145)
Estradiol - 311.5 pmol/l (28-156)

Everything else is in check.

I doubled the dose of aromasin because it seems it is not what it says it is. The main idea was to check if my stuff is legit. Thinking to get another blood work in one week and if the results are the same I am getting another AI. I have to mention that I had done a simple estradiol test, because they never heard of a sensitive one.

I am not holding a lot of water, no gyno, the only thing I am concerned is that my libido is not up and I can lose my erection during sex and in like a couple of seconds get it back hard. Another thing I noticed on my previous gym session, during my workout (doing chest) my nipples like got on fire, they were super hard and hot. It took like 30 sec to get pass that and it never happened again.

Hope you can help me with the problem I have and share your thoughts. Thank you.


UPDATE 04.01.2015

Hello again.
So after 6 hours of waiting got my lab results. Now my estradiol is 78,6 pg/ml (0-56), much better than last time but still not in range. Your opinion? continue with 50mg of aromasin every day for 1 week then lower it to 25mg?

Read about erectyl disfunction and low libido when on cycle - these can be caused by high level of prolactin. As I am NOT using any 19-Nortestosterone steroids that can cause high prolactin, havent thought to check it last time, BUT! I did it this time.

Guess what, prolactin - 15,5 (2.7 - 17) high on this one. I know it was caused by high estrogen that I was having last few weeks. The question is: what to do?
a) having my estrogen in range (or almost in range) will lead to prolactin to decrease?
b) use some "Anti-Prolactin" stuff for a short period of time to lower my prolactin?

Please help, would be very grateful for your opinion. Thanks.

[clarky.]

Welcome liviu.

I would just use the sus right through it could be pinned eod to get the best out of it but 2x wk would be ok ppl go eod because of the prop in it but no big deal.

Stop your hcg about 3 days before you start your pct.

Do not start your cycle till you have your AI.

Pct would start 21 days after last pin.

Cialis comes with a dropper to measure and you take it by mouth as for the dosage sorry i have not used it but plenty of guys here do so they will help you out on that.

[4linked]

The dropper is accurate.

[fit2bOld]

You get asyringe without the needle to measure with your order. AR-R 's liquid Cia is cheaper to use than prescription per mg. ( in my case) and has the same result.

[strippatrippa]

U u using Cialis while on a test only cycle? Just curious is all

[Liviu]

Thanks for your answers.
It costs 50$ more dollars to deliver the bottle from ar-r to Europe...but it's still less expensive than other places i found.

[Liviu]

U u using Cialis while on a test only cycle? Just curious is all

What is the difference between being on or off cycle when speaking about Cialis?

[Liviu]

Still looking for an alternative answer if it is ok to switch to enanthate after 6 weeks of using sust 250.
I was looking on forum but still did not found the unswer: can I use proviron instead of an AI? Or an AI is still a must for a 500mg / week of test?

[monster-ish]

Ai is a must unless u want high estrogen and sides like gyno

[monster-ish]

And yes u can switch. Sustanon contains four dif types of test, test e is one of them. It's really a personal preference but you would have to pin less with test e to get optimal results. Twice weekly instead of eod

[NACH3]

Hello everyone. I would like to thank you first for the information this forum provides, special thanks to austinite for making such great topics for the newbies.

I started my first cycle this week on Monday. Due to the absence of original test-e in my country i had to buy sustanol instead. So my cycle looks like:

1-12 week = 250mg sustanol x2 per week
1-12 week = 250mg hcg x2 per week (same injection with sust)
15(16) -18(19) week = clomid and nolva (as it states in the beginner topic)

haven't got my AI yet, i want to see my blood work after 2 weeks of use so I can be more accurate with the dosing.

So my questions are:
1) can i change after 6 weeks of use sust to test-e ? (Same dose of 500mg per week) thats when i will be able to buy it, or just stick to sust till end?
I don't like the idea to wait 3 weeks after last injection of sust to start my PCT, plus I have seen that most of you like test-e more than sust.
2) decided to buy cialis, best deal found on ar-r. But it is in liquid form, how to take it if the dose is 5mg per day? I have to take 1/6 of 1ml, how can i be so accurate? Or just find a more expensive deal but in caps?

You also could do what Clarky suggested and run the Sust all the way thru(pinning twice a wk is fine but if you don't want eod than M/W/F would be fine as well! And you could've waited 6 wks to get the ethenate....

But since you've started I would run it all the way thru... And though they are similar(Sust doesn't contain ethenate - prop/phyl prop/Isocaproate/decanate)... Hence the familiarity between the decanate ester and E or C(long esters) so a change can happen...

IMO I would've just waited for the ethenate if that's what you really wanted to run... But you'll see good results from Sust if diet and training is in check!

No Proviron in place of AI(it's a DHT steroid , but does not aromayize into Estro... it has its places to be run but not in place of an AI)...Also start your AI from the start(once you pin your gonna be shut down completely turning your test to Estro(hence AI from stalwart - BW at the 6wk mark is for adjusting) and hCG? Make sure you run hCG from the start of cycle up to 3days prior to PCT...

GL OP!

[Liviu]

Thanks again. So, I will try and change sust to enanthate after six weeks, one of the reasons being that I don't want to wait 3 weeks before starting my PCT.

So no proviron at all, got Aromasin . I will take 25mg ed till PCT starts.

So, when do I have to stop injecting the hcg ? You say 3 days prior to PCT, but in guide is said with last injection of test...

Is there any other water except BAC that can hcg be stored with? Or maybe some vit?

[NACH3]

Thanks again. So, I will try and change sust to enanthate after six weeks, one of the reasons being that I don't want to wait 3 weeks before starting my PCT.

So no proviron at all, got Aromasin . I will take 25mg ed till PCT starts.

So, when do I have to stop injecting the hcg ? You say 3 days prior to PCT, but in guide is said with last injection of test...

Is there any other water except BAC that can hcg be stored with? Or maybe some vit?

Proviron works well w/test base cycles(synergistically) to further prevent test to Estro conversion.... It has a high affinity to binding to the Aromatase enzyme, as well as binding to SHGB...But always take an AI if adding proviron... It definitely has its places to be run along side a test base as it serves to prevent estrogen buildup(further enhancing DHT)...

[Liviu]

Proviron works well w/test base cycles(synergistically) to further prevent conversion into Estro ... It has a high affinity to binding to the Aromatase enzyme, as well as binding to SHGB...But always take an AI if adding proviron... It definitely has its places to be run along side a test base as it serves to prevent estrogen buildup(further enhancing DHT)...

So you are saying to try adding proviron ? This is my first cycle so I would like to know first how my body reacts to test. I have read that proviron actually works just for a couple of weeks, if this is false I can try adding it to my stack.

[NACH3]

So you are saying to try adding proviron? This is my first cycle so I would like to know first how my body reacts to test. I have read that proviron actually works just for a couple of weeks, if this is false I can try adding it to my stack.

No proviron ! It beeing your first cycle test only is correct!

I was just clarifying when proviron is best used... Didn't mean to confuse you! so just run your tesT, AI from the start, hCG from start 2x wkly at 250iu...

GL OP!

[Liviu]

No proviron ! It beeing your first cycle test only is correct!

I was just clarifying when proviron is best used... Didn't mean to confuse you! so just run your tesT, AI from the start, hCG from start 2x wkly at 250iu...

GL OP!

Ok, got that. :-)

So my first injection of sust was on monday and today, saturday, I had already felt a better pump and more strength, better breath at the gym.

I didn't take my Ai until 5-th day of the cycle and I noticed I was holding more and more water. Today, after 2 days of 25mg of Aromasin , my body starts to look drier.

Hope in 2 weeks i will see the big help from my cycle.

Thank you all.

[lovbyts]

You should be using .25mg aromisin every other day unless you start to have signs of high E2.

[Liviu]

I've read that the recomended dose is 25mg every day of Aromasin , that's what i am taking now.

[lovbyts]

I've read that the recomended dose is 25mg every day of Aromasin, that's what i am taking now.

My bad, I was thinking Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day. Yes Aromasin should be 25mg every day.

[Liviu]

After 3 weeks on cycle I decided to check my blood work. I am on 500mg of sust 250, HCG and 25mg of aromasin everyday. I am 26 and at about 15% b/f.

(range)
Test - >52,05 nmol/l (9.9 - 27.8)
Free test - 0.573 nmol/l (0.015-0.145)
Estradiol - 311.5 pmol/l (28-156)

Everything else is in check.

I doubled the dose of aromasin because it seems it is not what it says it is. The main idea was to check if my stuff is legit. Thinking to get another blood work in one week and if the results are the same I am getting another AI. I have to mention that I had done a simple estradiol test, because they never heard of a sensitive one.

I am not holding a lot of water, no gyno, the only thing I am concerned is that my libido is not up and I can lose my erection during sex and in like a couple of seconds get it back hard. Another thing I noticed on my previous gym session, during my workout (doing chest) my nipples like got on fire, they were super hard and hot. It took like 30 sec to get pass that and it never happened again.

Hope you can help me with the problem I have and share your thoughts. Thank you.

[Bonaparte]

Looks like your aromasin is bunk. This is why I stick to arimidex . It is much cheaper and rarely faked/underdosed.
And pinning sust twice a week (or even once a week) is fine.

[skaz915]

Wow a new member who actually read stickies and did their research. Congrats, seriously. Everything looks good but you should have had you AI on hand before starting your cycle, you never know. Pct is 21 days after last pin

[Liviu]

Thx, got to be sure because our health is not a game :-)
I will switch to enanthate , so i start my pct after 14 days.

[Bonaparte]

Thx, got to be sure because our health is not a game :-)
I will switch to enanthate, so i start my pct after 14 days.

If PCT start time is your only reason to switch to Enanthate , don't bother. It really doesn't matter when you start PCT, so long as you're in the right ballpark. Better early than late, then just run it for 6 weeks. We're just guessing at optimal start dates, since half life and clearance time vary between individuals and by dose.

[Liviu]

If PCT start time is your only reason to switch to Enanthate, don't bother. It really doesn't matter when you start PCT, so long as you're in the right ballpark. Better early than late, then just run it for 6 weeks. We're just guessing at optimal start dates, since half life and clearance time vary between individuals and by dose.

Well, I have already bought a bottle of test-e. But for now, that is not the main problem, the big problem is the high estradiol and the fact that I can not do a sensitive lab test to be more accurate.
Thank you for your input, i will log in my next lab results.

[lovbyts]

Did you use labcorp/private md labs? It seems their E2 test may not be to accurate. I also had some HIGH E2 readings even using adex. I was pointed to a study by someone who did blood test on the same day using labcorp and Quest labs and the Quest labs came back normal. I believe this was more tren related E2 but it not have just been the tren???

Do you have any E2 related sides? Even though you already bought the Test E just save it for later and finish with what you already have.

[Liviu]

Did you use labcorp/private md labs? It seems their E2 test may not be to accurate. I also had some HIGH E2 readings even using adex. I was pointed to a study by someone who did blood test on the same day using labcorp and Quest labs and the Quest labs came back normal. I believe this was more tren related E2 but it not have just been the tren???

Do you have any E2 related sides? Even though you already bought the Test E just save it for later and finish with what you already have.

Well ... I dont know the difference between the two, but I have went to one of the best labs in our country. Next time (tomorrow) I will go to another one.

One of the sides induced by high estradiol could be Erectile dysfunction and Respiratory related concerns, but this is more a subjective opinion. Breathing got really hard but I have already had an issue with that due to some injuries of my nose, maybe it just got more complicated now.

In fact, during the cycle I have never felt more agressive (normal being an agressive person), never felt a kick to my desire of having sex (as many were saying), nor making me horny. I can say it even made me lose my libido, my desire to sex. Speaking about the rest, no signs of gyno, not much water retention, no drama, no nothing )

[NACH3]

Well ... I dont know the difference between the two, but I have went to one of the best labs in our country. Next time (tomorrow) I will go to another one.

One of the sides induced by high estradiol could be Erectile dysfunction and Respiratory related concerns, but this is more a subjective opinion. Breathing got really hard but I have already had an issue with that due to some injuries of my nose, maybe it just got more complicated now.

In fact, during the cycle I have never felt more agressive (normal being an agressive person), never felt a kick to my desire of having sex (as many were saying), nor making me horny. I can say it even made me lose my libido, my desire to sex. Speaking about the rest, no signs of gyno, not much water retention, no drama, no nothing )

What did your recent BW show regarding E2?? Sounds like it could be high or low - mostly higher - but BW will take the guessing out! Is your a-dex real?

[lovbyts]

I'm not sure what you mean you use one of the best labs if you dont know the name. If you mean the place where you get it drawn they dont typically do the test, it's sent to someone else such as labcorp or Quest. It should state who it is at the top of your paperwork who did the testing.

[Liviu]

What did your recent BW show regarding E2?? Sounds like it could be high or low - mostly higher - but BW will take the guessing out! Is your a-dex real?

Estradiol - 311.5 pmol/l (28-156)
Using aromasin 25mg every day.

[Liviu]

I'm not sure what you mean you use one of the best labs if you dont know the name. If you mean the place where you get it drawn they dont typically do the test, it's sent to someone else such as labcorp or Quest. It should state who it is at the top of your paperwork who did the testing.

I am from Europe (Romania). In my country they didnt even hear of an estradiol test specialy for men (a sensitive one), they have only 1 (one) method to check estradiol - the regular one that is made to check womens results.

[NACH3]

Estradiol - 311.5 pmol/l (28-156)
Using aromasin 25mg every day.

Yup... Thought it would be high from what your explaining! Sounds like your Stane is bunk... There's no way on 25mgs of Stane that your E2 should be that elevated...

IMO, I used Stane(and it defo has its places - 19nors etc whatever your comfortable with) but since switching to dex I've had more control over my E2 it seems(maybe it's in my head but I'll take it)

[Liviu]

Hello again.
So after 6 hours of waiting got my lab results. Now my estradiol is 78,6 pg/ml (0-56), much better than last time but still not in range. Your opinion? continue with 50mg of aromasin every day for 1 week then lower it to 25mg?

Read about erectyl disfunction and low libido when on cycle - these can be caused by high level of prolactin. As I am NOT using any 19-Nortestosterone steroids that can cause high prolactin, havent thought to check it last time, BUT! I did it this time.

Guess what, prolactin - 15,5 (2.7 - 17) high on this one. I know it was caused by high estrogen that I was having last few weeks. The question is: what to do?
a) having my estrogen in range (or almost in range) will lead to prolactin to decrease?
b) use some "Anti-Prolactin" stuff for a short period of time to lower my prolactin?

Please help, would be very grateful for your opinion. Thanks.

[NACH3]

Hello again.
So after 6 hours of waiting got my lab results. Now my estradiol is 78,6 pg/ml (0-56), much better than last time but still not in range. Your opinion? continue with 50mg of aromasin every day for 1 week then lower it to 25mg?

Read about erectyl disfunction and low libido when on cycle - these can be caused by high level of prolactin. As I am NOT using any 19-Nortestosterone steroids that can cause high prolactin, havent thought to check it last time, BUT! I did it this time.

Guess what, prolactin - 15,5 (2.7 - 17) high on this one. I know it was caused by high estrogen that I was having last few weeks. The question is: what to do?
a) having my estrogen in range (or almost in range) will lead to prolactin to decrease?
b) use some "Anti-Prolactin" stuff for a short period of time to lower my prolactin?

Please help, would be very grateful for your opinion. Thanks.

No... Do not take a DA for prolactin... Your in range and like you said no 19nor being run... Those can cause some other nasty sides of not combating high(er) prolactin...

Now studies have shown not much of an increase in strength from 25mgs to 50mgs... Now did this BW confirm that your Stane is g2g??

[Liviu]

No... Do not take a DA for prolactin... Your in range and like you said no 19nor being run... Those can cause some other nasty sides of not combating high(er) prolactin...

Now studies have shown not much of an increase in strength from 25mgs to 50mgs... Now did this BW confirm that your Stane is g2g??

I have used 50mg for 4 days in a row before my blood work. Maybe the previous results were false?! If going by feel I dont see any difference - not less water retention, my mood is the same, strength is the same, everything is the same.
So why the f*ck am I not that horny as everybody says you should be on cycle...not my main concern but still. Before my cycle I was always horny, like I couldnt live without doing IT everyday.

[NACH3]

I have used 50mg for 4 days in a row before my blood work. Maybe the previous results were false?! If going by feel I dont see any difference - not less water retention, my mood is the same, strength is the same, everything is the same.
So why the f*ck am I not that horny as everybody says you should be on cycle...not my main concern but still. Before my cycle I was always horny, like I couldnt live without doing IT everyday.

So your Stane is g2g then based on your past and recent BW?

It's most likely the sides of having high estro... Once that is in check you should see a jump in libido... I know I akways have(but in my first cycle of test I got crazy erections(like I was going thru puberty all over again - Speratic erections(great you'd think - it actually gets annoying) especially if your girl can't handle it more than a couple times daily haha...

But you should be fine once your E2 is in check(not just in range)...

[Liviu]

Guess my aromasin is g2g...
I will be taking one more week 50mg per day and have my blood work done again. Can aromasin somehow (or other AI) decrease your libido?

I am more than sure that my libido is doooown. Before starting my cycle I could only think of my girlfriends ass and already had an erection. Now, she calls me and I dont even want to go and see her because I know we will have to have sex, so damn annoying.

It is ok to know that I dont need any stuff to lower my prolactin

[NACH3]

Guess my aromasin is g2g...
I will be taking one more week 50mg per day and have my blood work done again. Can aromasin somehow (or other AI) decrease your libido?

I am more than sure that my libido is doooown. Before starting my cycle I could only think of my girlfriends ass and already had an erection. Now, she calls me and I dont even want to go and see her because I know we will have to have sex, so damn annoying.

It is ok to know that I dont need any stuff to lower my prolactin

If your only runnin Sust(or test only) then you shouldn't need anything for prolactin(but if your E2 comes down and your prolactin doesn't - I would get that looked at b/c prolactin can diminish libido) but I'm positive its your Estro being elevated - which can cause Ed issues plus many others...

Hey I hear ya bout the girl thing(but mine was during PCT)... On cycle I can break down a brick wall w/my d!ck... LOL

[Liviu]

If your only runnin Sust(or test only) then you shouldn't need anything for prolactin(but if your E2 comes down and your prolactin doesn't - I would get that looked at b/c prolactin can diminish libido) but I'm positive its your Estro being elevated - which can cause Ed issues plus many others...

Hey I hear ya bout the girl thing(but mine was during PCT)... On cycle I can break down a brick wall w/my d!ck... LOL

Maybe it would be better to get some arimidex and try that for the next week, I know they work differently, what do you think? srly hoping to get my libido back high ...

[NACH3]

Maybe it would be better to get some arimidex and try that for the next week, I know they work differently, what do you think? srly hoping to get my libido back high ...

I prefer l-dex myself... And as Bonaparte stated it's less likely to be faked or under dosed... And in my experience I can control my estro better w/dex...

Your BW should tell you if your stane is g2g or not... Or it's just way under dosed... Look at your estro readings, if the first is higher than the second than it's working but it still may be under dosed...

I will say its a preference thing(stane/dex/some even letro -but that's very strong stuff)...

How long have you been taking the stane? And for how long at 50mgs ed??