Anabolics
Search More Than 6,000,000 Posts
Results 1 to 29 of 29
  1. #1
    LOGANXXX's Avatar
    LOGANXXX is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BRAZIL
    Posts
    247

    saturated receptors

    OK, Since i started to participate in this forum, i learned lots of things that changed my life a lot, and for better.
    But there still some things that i need to ask....
    I See a lot of you guys doing a 17 or so weeks testosterone cycles...
    Does the receptors ever saturate with that cycle lenght????
    And why???

    Thanks for all your attention

  2. #2
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    Good question. BUMP

  3. #3
    LOGANXXX's Avatar
    LOGANXXX is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BRAZIL
    Posts
    247
    please some input bro´s....

    bump!!

  4. #4
    gundam675's Avatar
    gundam675 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,477
    17 weeks is way too long imho. unless u are pro. all u need is 12 weeks of test. take test + an oral like anadrol or d-bol and trenbolate acetate + 10 iu of insulin after workouts and it will work absolute wonders ! there are certain ways to saturate ur receptors fast ! i remember paul boreson (the guy who died of a drug overdose =( ) stated that he told his trainees to take 2000 grams of test a day, yes 2 g of test/ed for 14 days (im not kidding). he said by doing this with a long acting test like cyp u would not have to wait 4 weeks for gains to kick in !

    i dont belive it, but he said it !

  5. #5
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,502
    Quote Originally Posted by gundam675
    17 weeks is way too long imho. unless u are pro. all u need is 12 weeks of test. take test + an oral like anadrol or d-bol and trenbolate acetate + 10 iu of insulin after workouts and it will work absolute wonders !

    Gundam675,

    What you wrote works for you. As you know steroids do not have the same effect for everyone. Just because that worked for you or people you know, does not mean that it will work for everyone.

    I'm not flaming you, Gundam675, I'm reminding any new members reading this thread that the ONLY way a person will know what a steroid is going to do is to use it and observe what it does his/her body.

    LOGANXXX,

    There is a myth running rampid on several boards. The myth is that receptors get over loaded or saturated. If you do a search you'll find that this has been talked about on this board a lot.

    Receptors REGENERATE. People bump their doses way up after ONE or TWO cycles while saying "I need more steroids because my body has become used to it." 10 or 12 weeks of 500mg of this or 600mg of that is not enough time to cause your body not to react to the same doses of steroids just used.

    If people would spend more time fixing their diet, then hardly anyone would be complaining about "saturated receptors." It's funny how many people say "I'm eating clean and 4000 calories a day." But when asked "What have you eaten over the last few days? Exactly how much was protein? How much was carbs? What kind of carbs are you eating?..." Lot's of people respond "Uh...I don't count all that shit, I'm just estimating."

    Hmmm estimating your calories and protein?? And you're not growing??

    Your receptors DO NOT GET SATURATED. THEY REGENERATE. If you you're not growing, it's more likely a result of a poor diet than underdosed steroids, fake steroids or the level of doses being used--especially if you're already running relatively high doses.

    Just my $0.02.
    Last edited by BASK8KACE; 08-04-2003 at 11:16 PM.

  6. #6
    peaker's Avatar
    peaker is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,079
    on my first cyle at the moment, and i was wondering the same thing about future dosages. i get the feeling that it will take more than a 10-12 week cycle for your body not to react just as well on 500mg of test the next time around.

    different strokes for different folks, but i feel people like to up their dosage instead of putting in the work with their training and diet

    peaker

  7. #7
    Rickson's Avatar
    Rickson is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,165
    Well me and Bask8 agree and disagree on this one. Your receptors get saturated but they do regenerate so keeping them saturated is a good thing. Also people can't seem to get that most steroids work by several Non AR-mediated paths allowing for benefits outside of the receptor.

  8. #8
    Biggy20's Avatar
    Biggy20 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Between a bitch legs.......
    Posts
    234
    I never run test longer than 8 weeks, usualy, after 6 weeks I stop gaining mass and strenght, like i was oversatured.But I found that still taking milder stuff like deca for many weeks after the test bring some more goods results.At my opinion, if your really want to be a long time on AS, you should bridge cycle with hcg /clomid to get full benifit of such a long treatment.

    I also agree the fact that using test for a long time will bring you gains but at high cost in money and sides effects.

    So, after I did both short and long cycle, this is what I found.....

  9. #9
    flexgolf's Avatar
    flexgolf is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    561
    very good information guys. what i want to know is....what exactly is a receptor. everyone uses this term regularly and accepts it for what it is. but technically and chemically speaking, what exactly is a receptor? id prefer a physical explanation.

  10. #10
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    226
    A receptor is a cell that accepts a specific substance so that it may be metabolized. An androgen receptor is a cell that accepts androgens.

  11. #11
    flexgolf's Avatar
    flexgolf is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    561
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenear
    A receptor is a cell that accepts a specific substance so that it may be metabolized. An androgen receptor is a cell that accepts androgens.

    thanks for the answer. so they are all single cell structures?

  12. #12
    Sigmund Froid is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    460
    An androgen receptor is a very large molecule INSIDE a muscle cell that bind to androgens and direct their usage. Androgen receptors are not cells, but a part of the cell's furniture (so to speak).

    I'm with Rickson on this one. The receptors saturate, then create more receptors in response to all the saturation. This is called upregulation. In short, the opposite of what most people believe about steroids is true. (And isn't that usually the case anyway?)

    The best reason for taking a break from a cycle is your health. Of course, the results stop at some point on a cycle. If they didn't, we would have 10,000lb juicers. However, the only reason a person is able to gain 30lbs in a few weeks is because the receptors upregulate and increase in number during the cycle.

    Also, Rickson mentioned non-AR mediated paths to growth. This is very important. Yeah, the androgen receptor is important for growth, but what about all the other things that happen that have absolutely nothing to do with the AR? For example, steroids lower cortisol, which is responsible for breaking down muscle. Dianabol has been shown to be a dopamine agonist, which is conducive to lipolysis. Anadrol is suspected of being active at the estrogen receptor, which would explain the fat and water retention (Remember, it doesn't aromatize). Imagine all the things we don't know...

    -SF

  13. #13
    flexgolf's Avatar
    flexgolf is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    561
    incredible information...but the phrase "cells furniture" seems to be plenty of hand waiving. meh, im a physicist so i guess im used to a little hand waiving

  14. #14
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    This is good info guyz! keep it coming.

  15. #15
    BASK8KACE is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,502
    Sigmund Froid and Rickson,

    Thank you for the correction. I should have mentioned "upregulation" rather than "regeneration" to have been clearer about my statement, "receptors don't get saturated." My main point was to help dispell the myth, which you both have done with your posts.

    Rickson,

    Can someone cut and paste Froid's response and post it in an educational thread? I'm sure there are MANY people on the board who don't really know what is a receptor, and it's obvious that there are too many people who still believe in the saturation/build-a-tolerance-in-one-cycle myth.

  16. #16
    Rookiejay's Avatar
    Rookiejay is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    564
    great info forum - keep it coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Froid
    ...........what about all the other things that happen that have absolutely nothing to do with the AR? For example, steroids lower cortisol, which is responsible for breaking down muscle. Dianabol has been shown to be a dopamine agonist, which is conducive to lipolysis. Anadrol is suspected of being active at the estrogen receptor, which would explain the fat and water retention (Remember, it doesn't aromatize). Imagine all the things we don't know...

    -SF
    SF, could you elaborate on that...... or let me know where I can read more about non AR effects, related to a specific drug.

    This is increadibly interesting and useful.

    Thanks,

    Jay

  17. #17
    LOGANXXX's Avatar
    LOGANXXX is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BRAZIL
    Posts
    247
    Thank you very much for all the imput my friends.
    Not changing the subject, the test receptors are the same receptors for stanazolol, or other drug? Is there a receptor for each kind of ae´s???

    thank you all again

  18. #18
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    8,067
    Quote Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
    Gundam675,

    What you wrote works for you. As you know steroids do not have the same effect for everyone. Just because that worked for you or people you know, does not mean that it will work for everyone.

    I'm not flaming you, Gundam675, I'm reminding any new members reading this thread that the ONLY way a person will know what a steroid is going to do is to use it and observe what it does his/her body.

    LOGANXXX,

    There is a myth running rampid on several boards. The myth is that receptors get over loaded or saturated. If you do a search you'll find that this has been talked about on this board a lot.

    Receptors REGENERATE. People bump their doses way up after ONE or TWO cycles while saying "I need more steroids because my body has become used to it." 10 or 12 weeks of 500mg of this or 600mg of that is not enough time to cause your body not to react to the same doses of steroids just used.

    If people would spend more time fixing their diet, then hardly anyone would be complaining about "saturated receptors." It's funny how many people say "I'm eating clean and 4000 calories a day." But when asked "What have you eaten over the last few days? Exactly how much was protein? How much was carbs? What kind of carbs are you eating?..." Lot's of people respond "Uh...I don't count all that shit, I'm just estimating."

    Hmmm estimating your calories and protein?? And you're not growing??

    Your receptors DO NOT GET SATURATED. THEY REGENERATE. If you you're not growing, it's more likely a result of a poor diet than underdosed steroids, fake steroids or the level of doses being used--especially if you're already running relatively high doses.

    Just my $0.02.

    Nice bro!!!!! Great info!!
    Last edited by buylongterm; 08-05-2003 at 08:31 AM.

  19. #19
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by LOGANXXX
    Not changing the subject, the test receptors are the same receptors for stanazolol, or other drug? Is there a receptor for each kind of ae´s???
    SF is correct by saying receptors are not cells. I should have brushed up on my A&P before responding. Here's the information from the textbook verbatim:

    "Hormones, like neurotransmitters, influence their target cells by chemically binding to integral membrane protein or glycoprotein molecules called receptors. Only the target cells for a certain hormone have receptors that bind and recognize that hormone. For example, thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) binds to receptors on the surface of cells of the thyroid gland, but it does not bind to cells of the ovaries because ovarian cells do not have TSH receptors.

    Receptors, like other cellular proteins, are constantly being synthesized and broken down. Generally, a target cell has 2,000-100,000 receptors for a particular hormone. When a hormone (or nuerotransmitter) is present in excess, the number of target cell receptors may decrease. This effect is called down-regulation. For example, when cells of the testes are exposed to a high concentration of luteinizing hormone (LH), the number of LH receptors decreases. Down-regulation thus decreases the responsiveness of target cells to the hormone. On the other hand, when a hormone (or neurotransmitter) is deficient, the number of receptors may increase. This is known as up-regulation and makes a target tissue more sensitive to a hormone or neurotransmitter."

    So LoganXXX, to respond to your questions...androgens (including synthetic androgens) will bind to the androgen receptor. Obviously, certain androgens will exert themselves independent of the AR, as has already been discussed. Regarding anti-e's, there aren't Nolvadex or Clomid receptors in our bodies. The way I understand it is that these synthetic estrogens have a propensity to affect certain receptors in various parts of our bodies, e.g., hypothalamus, breast tissue, etc.

    Regarding up- and down-regulation, it's pretty clear from the text that both principles are medically established fact. It's my opinion that although up-regulation initially occurs in the presence of supraphysiological androgen levels, over time, down-regulation of those receptors will eventually occur. This may take 6 weeks, 6 months, or 6 years...who knows? But it makes sense to me, if nothing else, simply as a protective measure.

    Here's another very interesting section of text that I came across:

    "The responsiveness of a target cell to a hormone depends on (1) the hormone's concentration, (2) the abundance of its receptors, and (3) influences exerted by other hormones. When the level of a hormone rises or more of its receptors are present (up-regulation), a target cell responds more vigorously. Also, the actions of some hormones on target cells require a recent or simultaneous exposure to a second hormone. In such cases, the second hormone is said to have a permissive effect. For example, epinephrine alone stimulates lipolysis (the breakdown of trigylcerides) only weakly. When small amounts of thyroid hormones (T3 & T4) are present, however, the same amount of epinephrine stimulates lipolysis much more powerfully. Both thyroid hormones and glucocorticoids (mainly cortisol) have permissive effects on several other hormones. Sometimes the permissive hormone up-regulates receptors for the other hormone and sometimes it promotes synthesis of a critical enzyme needed for expression of the other hormone's effects."

    I have experienced this permissive effect personally. After only 2 weeks of taking 2.4IU's of GH daily (5-on, 2-off), I experienced severe hyperthyroidism. My thyroid activity skyrocketed in response to the increased levels of GH. This caused an up-regulation of beta receptors which happily grabbed every bit of epinephrine and nor-epinephrine they could. The result was essentially a 5-day asthma attack due to vasoconstriction which increased my blood pressure from ~120/60 to 178/105. My resting HR also increased from ~60 BPM to ~110 BPM.

    Thankfully, I had this A&P textbook at the time which enabled me to begin with the GH and identify what had happened in succession. I went to my doc, explained what I believed to be the case. He concurred, told me to lay off the GH, wrote out a script for an albuterol inhaler, and sent me on my way. After 12 hours on the inhaler, my BP returned to baseline and the tachycardia disappeared. Interestingly, even days after discontinuing the GH, I continued to experience thyroid storms which mandated periodic use of the inhaler. It's as if my body was expecting to "see" increased levels of GH and anticipated by increasing my thyroid activity. I believe that hormonal interactions, as described in the text, serve to maintain a level of parity among certain hormones.

  20. #20
    LOGANXXX's Avatar
    LOGANXXX is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BRAZIL
    Posts
    247
    Goldenear, what a info you got here man...awesome. So, in a certain way, hgh stimulate the absorption of ae´s.....it will up-regulate ar receptors because our body will increase cell metabolism.....That´s not a stupid conclusion, is it??????

  21. #21
    Breetai's Avatar
    Breetai is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    229
    good posts everyone.. intressting reads

  22. #22
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    226
    LOGANXXX, you've kinda lost me...Tudo bain? Perhaps if my Portuguese was better, I wouldn't have this problem.

    I think you've got it the other way around. I believe the general consensus is that supraphysiological levels of testosterone tend to cause the hypothalamus to step up production of GHRH & TRH, causing the pituitary to release a bit more GH & TSH, yielding increased levels of somatomedin-C, T3, and T4 ---> thus increasing basal metobolic rate.

  23. #23
    LOGANXXX's Avatar
    LOGANXXX is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    BRAZIL
    Posts
    247
    That was a nice try in portuguese!!! you almost got it....(it would be Tudo Bem)i wish you could wright in portuguese.....it would be a lot easier to understand a few terms...;-)
    But anyway, i read your post 15 times already, but now with your last post i think i got it......
    Man you got deep on the subject, i almost lost myself..lol
    Thank you for your pacient......

  24. #24
    Rookiejay's Avatar
    Rookiejay is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    564
    Great info - bump for those who didn't read it

  25. #25
    SS1476's Avatar
    SS1476 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    EAST COAST
    Posts
    1,872
    Bump an old thread.
    I'm doing alittle research and
    came across this thread which
    some may find a good read,I did.

  26. #26
    AnabolicBoy1981 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Pennslyvania
    Posts
    2,474
    i have known for awhil that AAS increase AR.

    this made me wonder though, does that mean AAS should work better as time goes on.....no? given enough time between cycles?

  27. #27
    sofus99's Avatar
    sofus99 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    178
    I believe I once read an article stating that what really happens when the effect of gear decreases in a cycle is not the "saturation" or "down regulation" of receptors, but instead an increase in catabolic activity in the tissue. Remember that the body has several ways of falling back to homeostatic equilibrium - both regulation of the anabolic as well as the catabolic activity matters a lot.

  28. #28
    Swifto's Avatar
    Swifto is offline Banned- Scammer!
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Anywhere...
    Posts
    15,737
    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981
    i have known for awhil that AAS increase AR.

    this made me wonder though, does that mean AAS should work better as time goes on.....no? given enough time between cycles?
    SHBG and Estrogen seem culprits...

    And possibly other mechanisms at work.

  29. #29
    Phil ORourke is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    61
    great stuff,tanx

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •