01-27-2004, 10:57 AM #1
First injection Cycle EQ and a bit of D-boll
What do you think off the following cycle?
I've done an oral cycle last year 100x10 mg tabs of winstrol for 6 weeks, with 2 weeks of clen . Gained 4 kg and lost 3-4 % of b.f.
88 kg about 15 % of bodyfat
training for 5 jears.
1-10 400 mg EQ
1-8 20 mg d-boll a single dose in the morning (Za-Sunday off)
12 500 IU HCG eod starting with 500 IU at the first 2 days.
13-14 500 IU HCG evry second day
14-15 40 mg of nolvadex
16-17 20 g of nolvadex
KH 500 grams
Protein 360 grams
Fats 100 grams
I will increase my food intake according too my gains and my b.f.
I want too lose a bit of fat, and sure not gain extra fat.
I'll hope too gain 6-10 kg of solid muscle.
01-27-2004, 11:00 AM #2
An artikel why i'm gona use the d-boll this way
The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Artikel door Bransholme (MuscleTalk)
This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.
Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids . Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids .
Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.
Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.
A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.
One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.
How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids.
Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.
Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone , it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.
Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:
ē 6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
ē 10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total
So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.
This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.
ē Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
ē An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
ē Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
ē Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
ē Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
ē Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV.
Warning! Articles related to the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs are for information purposes only and are the sole expressions of the individual authors opinion. We do not promote the use of these substances and the information contained within this publication is not intended to persuade or encourage the use or possession of illegal substances. These substances should be used only under the advice and supervision of a qualified, licensed physician.
01-27-2004, 11:09 AM #3
thats a pretty good find bro good job!
01-27-2004, 11:13 AM #4
Interestin article on Dbol , but in my opinion:
I think that cycle sucks personally, The foundation for any cycle is test, and running 400 mg of EQ means you should be running 500 mg of a long acting ester of test like Enanthate or Cyp. I dont care what that article says, whether you do more for shorter amt of time or less for longer periods its still liver toxic either way you look at it. And you should use the dbol as a jumpstart weeks 1-4 not as the foundation of a cycle. That cycle you have planned will be an utter waste of money.
01-27-2004, 11:16 AM #5Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
i was always told to add test in any cycle, especially to a first cycle (as i dont consider you previous winny cycle a REAL one!).
why dont u make things simple?
01-27-2004, 01:25 PM #6
test test test and some more test!
01-27-2004, 01:49 PM #7
01-27-2004, 01:52 PM #8
ohh- concerning your cycle, i agree, test test test...!!!!
01-27-2004, 01:54 PM #9Banned
Originally Posted by RJM03
- Join Date
- May 2003
Although this is not a very diplomatic way to say it, I agree with RJMo3 that you should add test. Also, run the eq for at least 12 weeks as it takes awhile for it to show. Lastly I like the HCG use during cycle, but not at the end. You should be using Clomid to recover rather than Nolva by itself.
01-27-2004, 01:58 PM #10
I know that normally testosterone is stacked with an other compound.
But Iím a bit afraid off gyno. I'm sure I gonna try test in my next cycle with some proviron or primo.
Don't you guys think I can make nice solid gains with this cycle, because its gonna be my first one?
An other problem is that I want too get hard quality muscle without the ad of fat.
01-27-2004, 02:06 PM #11Banned
Originally Posted by bodybuildingjunkie
- Join Date
- May 2003
Also, you can run just 250 of test a week. If you are lifting, eating and resting right, you will absolutely grow off that for a first cycle, I did.
01-27-2004, 02:14 PM #12
01-28-2004, 10:34 AM #13Originally Posted by toolman
You van make excellent gains on other roids.
I know people how gained about 12 pounds on a deca only cycle 8 weeks at 200 mg. I also know people who gained 18 pounds of a d-boll only cycle 6 weeks at 30 mg. Why shouldn't i grow on this cycle?
If you start using test in your first cycle at 500 mg, you have to increase it in your next cycle too 750 mg. By your fourth cycle you have too use about 1 gram a week. In my opinion this is crazy.
It's gonna be this cycle and i will place some before and after pics on this site
If i got the time I gonna keep a log. I'm sure i gonna keep a log on a Dutch board, so i can translate it if i find some time.
I think it's a good thing too use HCG during the cycle in low doses incase my nuts shrink.
Maybe Iíll throw in some winstrol from week 8 for 2-4 weeks.
If the gains really suck hard I throw in a vail of test prop from week 6.
I hope i can prove you the opposite of what you tell me, i want too gain 16-20 pounds of muscle and if it ainít gonna work. I will admit I was wrong.
01-28-2004, 12:30 PM #14Banned
Originally Posted by bodybuildingjunkie
- Join Date
- May 2003
If you read my post, I recommended starting with 250 test. I am one of the low dosage believers as it works for me. However, if you do not always have to increase by 250mgs each successive cycle as you said. I have run 500 mgs of test in consecutive cycles and still saw nice gains.
01-28-2004, 12:56 PM #15Junior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
I liked the article. I would be very interested in your before/after pics as well as your log when you have completed the cycle.
01-28-2004, 01:01 PM #16Originally Posted by bodybuildingjunkie
01-28-2004, 01:05 PM #17New Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
I think it looks like ****. Keep us posted on how it works out.
01-28-2004, 01:06 PM #18New Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
No test, no cycle.
01-29-2004, 09:02 AM #19
I wasnt trying to be harsh but he just seems way off. Putting on weight with deca and dbol is attributed to the amt of water your body retains when on those compounds. Its not actually LBM gains, when the compounds are discontinued the weight drops off pretty quick w/o test. The test allows you keep that weight on, and utilize the anabolic properties of deca and dbol throughout the cycle, then its up to the PCT to retain those gains. Plus, you do not have to increase the dose of test everytime, and the way you have your EQ planned for 10 weeks, its still not long enough. EQ should be run minimum 12 weeks and most people run it for 16. Do what you want obviously but you will not get what you expect out of the compounds you have planned.
01-29-2004, 09:26 AM #20
not much. A bit off water retention is positive as it will contribute the uptake of nutrients..
I believe this combo provides higher quality muscle because of it's effect of the EQ at providing good uptake of nutrients and the muscle building and anti-catabolic effect of the d-boll.
The most important thing is a good diet and good PCT.
But anyway. I've the gains suck hard I throw in some test propionate in week 6-10 or 8-12.
I respect most of your advises but i think i can show you the opposed. If it ain't gonna work my way. I will tell y'all en you can laugh at me at that time.
Time will tell. Iíll kick-off in March.
I will place some pics from about 1 month ago now.
01-29-2004, 09:37 AM #21
OK. First off. On a short cycle like that, you probably will NOT need HCG . 2nd. A dbol /EQ cycle doesn't make much sense. Sure your buddy gained some solid weight with a DBOL only cycle, but I guarantee, He will lose most of it. You will NOT get big on EQ. EQ is mainly used for vascularity and hardness of the muscle. 8 weeks of DBOL is TO LONG. I wouldn't run DBOL longer than 4 weeks. 10 weeks of EQ is also a complete waste because you need to run it longer. EQ can take 5 or 6 weeks to kick in.
Listen to the advise the bro's are giving you. This advise usually comes from experience. We can't tell you how many times guys won't listen, and decide to do a cycle that in the long run, they come running back here admitting it was a big mistake.
If your worried about GYNO, listen to what people are saying and have some Nolva on hand. I saw fantastic results from a low dose cycle.
Test is the KING!!! I could never imagine in my wildest dreams doing a cycle without it.
01-29-2004, 09:41 AM #22
01-29-2004, 10:47 AM #23
Yes i agree with that, it's the mass that stays that counts.
Soo i will post a pic about an month later.
And like i've said if the gains sucks i'll trow in an vial of test prop at the end of the cycle the EQ is sure working by then.
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