Thread: First Cycle
02-18-2004, 02:43 PM #1New Member
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- Feb 2004
What would be a good cycle to start with, i am 21 200 pounds 6'2, never taken roids before, i was looking at deca durabolin on a ten week cycle of 250-300, what gains could i expect from that? Also if i added 250 mg of sustanon 250 or 250 mg of omadren 250 for the ten weeks lift how much more benefit would i get ? thanks for any info
02-18-2004, 02:45 PM #2
1st cycle should be
test en or cyp 400-500mg a week
20 mg nolva ed
dont forget pct
02-18-2004, 02:47 PM #3
The best cycle you can do right now is some research....
02-18-2004, 02:48 PM #4Originally Posted by Bartleby
02-18-2004, 03:26 PM #5
02-18-2004, 03:33 PM #6
02-18-2004, 03:35 PM #7Associate Member
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- Mar 2002
sh#t, i dont get how some people could want to inject **** into there body without even knowing what it is or what it will do to you, just because someone recommends you a cycle, doesnt mean you should do it without understanding it for youself
but yes, as for research, i would get yourself started by clicking on the link in consistencys signature
02-18-2004, 03:39 PM #8Senior Member
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- Dec 2003
incredible, there are 5 or 6 first cycle thread in the next 10-15 most recent posts!
+ the educational thread
+ the search box
02-18-2004, 04:45 PM #9New Member
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- Feb 2004
I am not into using steriods in a big way just maybe once or twice to build up, i want to have gains i can keep and am not to keen on taking testosterone , you say to look up other threads well i have done and none of them give me an answer, if i did 300 mg of deca per week for 10 weeks and did either 250 mg of sustanon 250 or 250 mg of omadren 250 what muscle mass would i gain and what would the side effects be, i might only ever do 2-3 cycles in my entire life. The reasons i am looking into these specific steriods are, from what i have read they seem to increase muscle mass and strength and in a 10 week cycle would not have that many bad side effects.
02-18-2004, 04:52 PM #10
you are gonna have bad sides if you dont use test
02-18-2004, 04:53 PM #11
bro, your first cycle should only have ONE sort of steroid at very low amounts.this is your first time taking steroids you shouldnt rush it, most likely you could see even better gains taking 250 mg of sust every week rather than taking 200mg of deca every week.do some more research, its right in front of you
02-18-2004, 04:59 PM #12Originally Posted by steriods101
Sustanon won't even kick in until week 6 or so, and that only gives you 4 wks of decent gains. Also you would want to run test longer than the deca to make recovery easier.
Side effects can be found in the drug profiles section of the main page.
You didn't even mention anything about PCT, you might want to look that up. I wouldn't expect you to keep much of anything you gain with the knowledge you have now.
I think you should hold back and read more about diet and training and get that in check before you jump into AAS.
Don't buy into cycling only once or twice, believe me when i say you will do many more cycles than 1.
If you think were wrong and your ready then it should be no problem for you to lay out your proposed cycle, diet, and training routine for us to look at.
02-18-2004, 05:18 PM #13New Member
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- Feb 2004
I have not mentioned anything else as i have found the information i need on that already, nobody seems to know how to answer a question they all just want to look clever, if someone asks a questions why not give an answer instead of saying look up threads that don't exist.
DECA-DUR/400MG SUSTANON /250MG
11 SUSTANON 250 mg
12 SUSTANON 250 mg
eat about 4000 cal a day and take either clomid 50-100 or nolvadex 10 mg after first three weeks training 4-5 times per week
If i did this what muscle mass could i expect to gain?
If i did the cycle with only one steriod and didn't satck what gains would i get?
02-18-2004, 05:21 PM #14
good luck.......f*****g yourself up bro.........you just dont listen do you,the research threads are there,and suggest you do more,because you pct doses are wrong
Last edited by jbol; 02-18-2004 at 05:27 PM.
02-18-2004, 05:29 PM #15
You said you dont want to run test... well sust IS TEST! that cycle is not good at all, like I said earlier. You are gonna end up fuc king your body up. We are just trying to help
02-18-2004, 05:31 PM #16
hes not hearing what he wants to hear.....so its like talking to a wall....im done here
02-18-2004, 05:45 PM #17New Member
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- Feb 2004
I have searched the threads it is just hard to get through to you people i want o know about those steriods i know sustanon is testosterone but i don't want to take other types of testosterone. If you can find threads on deca and sustanon in a cycle show me as i can't find them. Also if you people think i am going to start taking all these different steriods tommorow etc you are wrong asking these questions is part of my research.
02-18-2004, 06:08 PM #18
hit the search button and type in deca and sustanon .. youll find some threads..
here is something you should read.. lots of good info.. believe it was posted by doc holliday.....
Steroid Usage Basics For Beginers. 101
Simple guidelines and simple explanations for the simply newbie.
You must understand esters. Esters are attached to AAS compounds. The ester acts as a kind of time releasing vehicle. Esters are broken down in the blood stream and thus the AAS compound is freed. “Long-acting” esters slowly break down, and “fast-acting” esters break down more rapidly. Half-life describes this occurrence.
Ex: If a compound has a half-life of 3-4 days it’s generally a long acting ester since what this means is that it takes 3-4 days for the ester to have been broken down completely and now the test levels can only be “flushed” from the blood. Therefore shots are required every 3-4 days to keep the compound levels constant within the blood.
Common Ester names in no particular order:
There are blends, or mixtures of tests each with their own ester. These are mutli-esterified. An example is Sustanon 250, Omnadren 250, and Aratest.
Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA):
Secondly you must understand the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis and the affect Anabolic Androgenic steroids has on your HPTA. The use of AAS has a negative affect on your HPTA, which I’ll put in simple terms. For a detailed explanation see the following link:
The body is always looking to establish homeostasis, a balance in the body. Upon the introduction of AAS to the body, you begin to reduce your own production. Some AAS compounds are harsher to your HPTA and shut your natural production down hard. A rebound from this shutdown is taxing on the body upon discontinuing use of AAS. Other compounds must be used to help the body return to homeostasis.
The compounds that are harsh on your HPTA will also be harsh on your libido; your sexual drive, and for men can result in a limp penis.
Such compounds that are harsh on the HPTA are:
It is therefore, advisable for at least the sakes of sex, to keep Testosterone as a base for any AAS cycle.
Testosterone as a base:
There are limits to the length of cycle use. When you being AAS use, it takes time for the body to “swap” its natural testosterone with the synthetic compound. The times vary with the particular ester used. However a short AAS cycle will most likely only result in a shut down of HPTA and not leave the body exposed to the synthetic testosterone long enough for positive gains. Too long of a cycle, and your suppressed HPTA will have a harder time recovering.
Further, the body can develop more or less immunities to AAS on cycles ran too long and cycles ran at too high of a dose.
Secondly, the body has limits for how much it can grow. A longer, higher dosed cycle will not be more effective simply because of the body’s tolerance and limited ability to grow.
My own guideline for a first and second time user is any cycle ran less than 8 weeks is too short; any cycle ran longer than 15 weeks is excessive. 10-14 weeks is a good range for a first and second time user.
Estrogen levels will be elevated during the use of AAS. Remember Homeostasis. Application of either anti-estrogen or anti-aromatizer.
Anti-Estrogen V. Anti-Aromatizer?
The body has AS receptors and estrogen receptors. Your goal in using AAS is to flood the AS receptors. Your goal is not to flood the estrogen receptors.
How an anti-estrogen works is that it attaches itself to the estrogen receptors so that estrogen will not. Therefore the estrogen remains free floating in your blood stream but unable to leech onto the receptors and take action.
How and anti-aromatizer works is that it prevents the aromatization of steroids. It prevents the compounds conversion into estrogen. This however has the ability to weaken the effect of the steroid compound.
Zero estrogen is not desirable. Some estrogen is necessary, but too much can cause complications such as gynocomastia (man boobies) and water retention to name a few.
Common side effects while on Anabolic Steroids :
Users may experience a number of side effects due to increased synthetic testosterone levels as well as due to increased estrogen levels.
· Cardiovascular complications: High blood pressure can result from use of AAS and with heart problems should seek medical consultation. Combined water/sodium retention and the fact that steroids actually can elevate the cholesterol and triglyceride levels gives explanation to this condition. It is also why some athletes experience a reduction in stamina.
· Acne may result from AAS use, but can be combated a number of ways that should be researched.
· Aggression may also increase while on AAS, however some experience this aggression during high exertion activities, and will otherwise feel somewhat lethargic. Feelings of lethargy, sleepiness throughout the day while on AAS may result. This will be largely affected by the amount of physical activity performed throughout the day.
· Hair loss on the scalp can occur. This condition, as with the others, is dependent on the individual. Certain individuals predisposed to premature hair loss may be at a greater risk for this side effect.
· Hair gain, or activation of hair follicles on the body may also occur. Hair follicles on the chest, back, arms and other places may be stimulated.
· Certain steroids are I 7-alpha alky-lated and are toxic to the liver. It is important to note this and limit intake of foods and beverages that will also be strenuous on the liver.
· As previously noted, AAS use will result in a reduced testosterone production, a decreased spermatogenesis, and in some cases testicular atrophy. The degree of suppression depends on the duration of the steroid intake, the administered steroid, and the dosage of the steroid
· Most steroids cause a water and electrolyte imbalance in the body This results in an increased storage of water and sodium which further results in a swelling of tissue (edema)
· Gastrointestinal symptoms such as epigastric fullness, diarrhea, nausea or even vomiting may result and are associated solely with the use of oral, I 7-alpha alkylated steroids. The oral compounds can be administered with food to reduce these side effects.
· Feminization may result in males if estrogen levels are not kept in check. The most popular feminization side effect of estrogen is gynocomastia.
· Females may experience masculinization effects.
· Kidney complications: The kidneys are under more strain during steroid intake. They are involved in the filtration and excretion of toxic by-products. A high blood pressure as well as variations in the water and electrolyte balance of the body can lead to long-term changes in the kidney's function.
There may be more side effects not listed. All side effects should be researched and understood. There are ways to alleviate some of the symptoms. Remedies and counter-actions should be researched before use of AAS.
What happens at the end of a cycle:
So now the steroids are leaving your body, and overall testosterone levels are dropping. Estrogen is still free floating in the bloodstream. You HPTA is under stimulated. Your body is not in balance and your muscle gains are being threatened to catabolism. Estrogen is catabolic, and since your test levels are not yet recovered the estrogen levels must be put into check all while trying to get your HPTA back as quickly as possible. This is done by some form of Post Cycle Therapy .
Why the body enters a state of catabolism after a cycles end:
The catabolic state is caused by low levels of testosterone combined with high levels of cortisol and estrogen. As said before, some of the androgens you take while on steroids will be converted to estrogen as your body attempts to balance itself out. After your external souce of androgens is stopped (once the cycle ends) your body still has all that extra estrogen and cortisol still floating around.
Along with gyno, high levels of estrogen can also lead to increased fat storage and the catabolism of lean muscle mass. I will not explain the details as to why estrogen can cause catabolism of lean muscle.
Cortisol is hormone, now being called a stress hormone. It is an adrenal hormone that is secreted when the body undergoes physical or psychological stress. Obviously when you take steroids you are putting your body through stress. When cortisol is secreted, it causes a breakdown of muscle protein, leading to release of amino acids (the "building blocks" of protein) into the bloodstream. It does this to raise blood sugar levels to help the brain. However we are not trying to help our brains, we’re meat heads and want bigger muscles, so cortisol does not work in our favor.
We can keep the estrogen catabolism in check by using anti-estrogens.
We can keep the cortisol catabolism in check by consuming superfluous levels of protein and calories.
Post Cycle Therapy (PCT):
An anti-estrogen is needed upon the completion of your cycle for sure. With all that free floating estrogen you need to prevent the estrogen from attaching to your receptors and causing their damage. The wrath of estrogen in the aftermath of a cycle is referred to a back lashing of estrogen.
You also need something to help stimulate your HPTA. Something needs to be done about your own testosterone production to combat catabolism, to restore libido and avoid depression.
A very successful compound to stimulate the HPTA is Clomid. Clomid stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone) occurs. This results in an elevated endogenous (body's own) testosterone level. Sorry I threw some mighty big words out there.
A good PCT combo is Nolvadex and Clomid. Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen.
Typical of a Nolvadex and Clomid PCT is as such:
Day1 300mg Clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-11 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day12-21 50mg Clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Timing the PCT correctly:
Back to applying the concept of Esters. Compounds bound to long acting esters require a longer waiting period for PCT to be administered. Likewise, compounds bound to short acting esters require a shorter waiting period for PCT to be administered.
Steroid.....Time After Administration.....Clomid Length
Aratest...........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Anadrol50/Anapolan50........8-12 hours.....3 weeks
Deca Durobolan................3 weeks........4 weeks
Dianabol ..........................4-8 hours.......3 weeks
Equipoise .........................17-21 days.....3 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days...........3 weeks
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days.....2 weeks
Sustanon.........................3 weeks........3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks........3 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron ..2 weeks........3 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days..........3 weeks
Test Suspension................4-8 hours......2 weeks
Winstrol ...........................8-12 hours.....2 weeks
Nutrition and Sleep:
Calorie levels must be increased during AAS use. For the body to grow it needs fuel and since it is growing at an incredible rate you will consume an incredible amount of food. At least you should. Adequate calorie levels for a bulking cycle should be between 4,500 and 5,500 depending on the individual’s size. Calories must also be slightly increased during PCT to help counter the cortisol reactions.
When you sleep you grow. Simple as that. Your muscles are relaxed and the body is in a state of repair.
I want to end this with a few simple beginner cycles. These can be used as a reference, or a guide to building your own personal one. Keep in mind your goals should be reasonable as well as your dosages.
First timer cycles:
Wk 1-10 Test Enanthate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid (dose using the guideline I listed above)
*That is 14 days after last shot.
Wk 1-10 Test Cypionate 400mg each week
Wk 1-15 Nolvadex 20m each day
Wk 12-15 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot.
Second timer cycles:
Wk 1-13 Test Enanthate/Cypionate 400-500mg each week
Wk 1-12 Equipoise 300-400mg each week
Wk 1-18 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 15-18 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot.
*note the Equipoise ran 100mg less than the test also one week shorter
Wk 1-11 Test Enanthate/Cypionate 400-500mg each week
Wk 1-10 Deca Durabolin 300-400mg each week
Wk 1-16 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 13-16 Clomid
*That is 14 days after last shot.
*note the Deca Durabolin ran 100mg less than the test and also one week shorter
Wk 1-10 Sustanon 250 500mg each week
Wk 2-10 Anavar 35mg each day
Wk 1-16 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Wk 13-16 Clomid
*That is 21 days after last shot.
I could go on and on, but all would have testosterone as a base.
1ml = 1cc
1g = 1000mg
1g = 1000000mcg
If a vial reads 250mg/ml that means it has 250mg per ml, and each ml is a cc. So if you withdraw 1cc and inject you are injecting 250mg.
The following is the amount (in grams) of testosterone per 100mg of finished compound.
Testosterone Cypionate : 70mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 65mg
Testosterone Enantate: 72mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 75mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 69mg
Testosterone Propionate : 84mg
Testosterone Suspension : 100mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 63mg
What this gives you is the concentration that each esterfied testosterone compound has. So when the ester has been broken down in the body, that’s how much concentration is released into the blood stream. The higher the concentration does not necessarily mean a better compound.
I hope I covered all the basis pretty well. I wish I could credit all my sources, but I would just extend credit to everyone at AR. I did some outside reading, but I didn’t document like I should have.
I hope that Newbies read this and understand it. Best of luck for anyone doing research. Be safe.
A "cycle experience" thread on low/moderate dosages of AAS:
I want to state that this is something I put together as a starting place. It is intended to be a thread for beginners, so that they can get an easy grasp on using AAS. It is not law. There may be said information that is incorrect. I am ever updating it for corrections. This is merely a starting point at most. There are many things to learn that should sprout
02-18-2004, 06:12 PM #19
Deca -Durabolin is a brand name of Organon Company, the manu-facturer of the drug containing the substance nandrolone decanoate. Although nandrolone decanoate is still contained in many generic compounds, almost every athlete connects this substance with Deca--Durabolin. Most common are the administrations of 5 0 mg/ml and 100 mg/ml. Deca-Durabolin is the most widespread and most commonly used injectable steroid . Deca's large popularity can be attributed to its numerous possible applications and, for its mostly positive results. Deca-Durabolin causes the muscle cell to store more nitrogen than it re-leases so that a positive nitrogen balance is achieved. A positive ni-trogen balance is synonymous with muscle growth since the muscle cell, in this phase, assimilates (accumulates) a larger amount of pro-tein than usual. The same manufacturer, however, points out on the package insert that a positive nitrogen balance and the protein--building effect that accompany it will occur only if enough calories and proteins are supplied. One should know this since, otherwise, satisfying results with Deca cannot be obtained. The highly ana-bolic effect of Deca-Durabolin is linked to a moderately androgenic component, so that a good gain in muscle mass and strength is obtained. At the same time, most athletes notice considerable water retention which, no doubt, is not as distinct as that with injectable testosterones but which in high doses can also cause a smooth and watery appearance. Since Deca also stores more water in the connective tissues, it can temporarily case or even cure existing pain in joints. This is especially good for those athletes who complain about pain in the shoulder, elbow, and knee; they can often enjoy pain-free workouts during treatment with Deca-Durabolin. Athletes use Deca, depending on their needs, for muscle buildup and in preparation for a competition.
Deca is suitable, even above average, to develop muscle mass since it promotes the protein synthesis and simultaneously leads to water retention. The optimal dose for this purpose lies between 200 and 600 mg/week. Scientific research has shown that best results can be obtained by the intake of 2-mg/pound body weight. Those who take a dose of less than 200 mg/week will usually feel only a very light anabolic effect which, however, increases with a higher dosage. Most male athletes experience good re-sults by taking 400 mg/week. Steroid novices usually need only 200 mg/week. Deca works very well for muscle buildup when combined with Dianabol and Testosterone . The famous Dianabol/ Deca stack results in a a fast and strong gain in muscle mass. Most athletes usually take 15-40 mg Dianabol/day and 200-400 mg Deca/week. Even faster results can be achieved with 400 mg Deca/week and 500 mg 5ustanon 250/week. Athletes report an enormous gain in strength and muscle mass when taking 400 mg Deca/week, 500 mg Sustanon 250/week, and 30 mg Dianabol/day. Deca is a good basic steroid which, for muscle buildup, can be combined with many other steroids .
A conversion into estrogen, that means an aromatizing process, is possible with Deca-Durabolin but occurs at a lower rate than ex: testosterone. During competi-tions with doping tests Deca must not be taken since the metabo-lites in the body can be proven in a urine analysis up to 18 months later. The risk of potential water retention and aromatizing to estro-gen can be successfully prevented by combining the use of Proviron with Nolvadex . A preparatory stack often observed in competing athletes includes 400 mg/week Deca-Durabolin, 50 mg/day Winstrol , 228 mg/week Parabolan , and 25 mg/day Oxandrolone.
Although the side effects with Deca are relatively low with dosages of 400 mg/week, androgenic-caused side effects can occur. Most problems manifest themselves in high blood pressure and a pro-longed time for blood clotting, which can cause frequent nasal bleed-ing and prolonged bleeding of cuts, as well as increased production of the sebaceous gland and occasional acne. Some athletes also re-port headaches and sexual overstimulation. When very high dos-ages are taken over a prolonged period, spermatogenesis can be in-hibited in men, i.e. the testes produce less testosterone. The reason is that Deca-Durabolin, like almost all steroids, inhibits the release of gonadotropins from the hypophysis.
Women with a dosage of up to 100 mg/week usually experience no major problems with Deca. At higher dosages androgenic-caused virilization symptoms can occur, including deep voice (irreversible), increased growth of body hair, acne, increased libido, and possibly clitorihypertrophy. Women who experience disturbance even at a weekly dose of only 50 mg/week of Deca-Durabolin, are often better off taking the earlier-mentioned and faster-acting Durabolin. Unlike the long-acting Deca, when Durabolin is administered once or twice weekly in a dosage of 50 mg, no concentration of undesired amounts of androgens occur. Since most female athletes get on well with Deca-Durabolin a dose of Deca 50 mg +/week is usually com-bined with Oxandrolone 10 mg +/day Both compounds, when taken in a low dosage, are only slightly androgenic so that masculinizing side effects only rarely occur. Deca, through its increased protein synthesis, also leads to a net muscle gain and Oxandrolone, based on the increased phosphocreatine synthesis, leads to a measurable strength gain with very low water retention. Other variations of administration used by female athletes are Deca and Winstrol tab-lets, as well as Deca and Primobolan S-tablets.
A great disadvantage of Deca-Durabolin is its high price. In the U.S. a 50 mg ampule costs approx. $10 - 12. Deca-Durabolin in strengths of 200 mg/2 ml ampules; usually cost around $30 per ampule. Because of its great popularity and the high demand that goes along with it, there are many fakes of Deca-Durabolin.
Remark: Testosterone propionate 30mg, Testosterone phenylpropionate 60 mg, Testosterone isocaproate 60 mg, Testosterone decanoate 100 mg
Sustanon is a very popular steroid which is highly appreciated by its users since it offers several advantages when compared to other testosterone compounds. Sustanon is a mixture of four different testosterones which, based on the well-timed composition, have a synergetic effect. This special feature has two positive characteris-tics for the athlete. First, based on the special combination effect of the compounds, Sustanon, milligram for milligram, has a better effect than Testosterone enanthate , cypionate , and propionate alone. Second, the effect of the four testosterones is time-released so that Sustanon goes rapidly into the system and remains effective in the body for several weeks. Due to the propionate also included in the steroid, Sustanon is effective after one day and, based on the mixed in decanoates, remains active for 3-4 weeks. Sustanon has a distinct androgenic effect which is coupled with a strong anabolic effect. Therefore it is well suited to build up strength and mass. A rapid increase in body strength and an even increase in body weight oc-cur. Athletes who use Sustanon report a solid muscle growth since it results in less water retention and also aromatizes less than either testosterone enanthate or cypionate. Indeed many bodybuilders who use testosterone and fight against distinct water retention and an elevated estrogen level prefer Sustanon over other long-acting de-pot testosterones.
It is further noticed that Sustanon is also effective when relatively low doses are given to well advanced athletes- It is interesting to note that when Sustanon is given to athletes who have already used this compound in the same or lower doses, it leads to similar good results as during the previous intake. Sustanon is usually injected at least once a week, which can be stretched up to 10 days. The dosage in bodybuilding and powerlifting ranges from 250 mg every 14 days up to 1000 mg or more per day. Since such high dosages are not recommended-and fortunately are also not taken in most cases-the rule is 250-1000 mg/week. A dosage of 500 mg/week is completely sufficient for most, and can often be reduced to 250-mg/ week by combining Sustanon with an oral steroid. Sustanon is well tolerated as a basic steroid during treatment which stimulates the regeneration, gives the athlete a sufficient "kick" for intense train-ing units, and next to the already mentioned advantage-rapid strength increase and solid muscle gain distinguishes itself also by its compatibility. In order to gain mass fast Sustanon is often com-bined with Deca-Durabolin, Dianabol or Anadrol while athletes who are more into quality prefer combining it with Parabolan, Winstrol, Oxandrolone or Primobolan.
Although Sustanon does not aromatize excessively when taken in a reasonable dosage many people, in addition, also take an antiestrogen such as Nolvadex and/or Proviron to prevent possible estrogen-linked side effects. Since Sustanon suppresses the endogenous testosterone production the intake of HCG and Clomid must be considered after six weeks or at the end of treatment. It is recommended that women not take depot testosterones since the androgen level would strongly increase and virilization symptoms could result. Despite this, it is not uncommon for female competing athletes in the higher weight classes to take testosterone since it helps in remaining "competi-tive." Women who use "Testo" or who would like to try it should limit its use to either only testosterone propionate or inject a maxi-mum of 250 mg Sustanon every 10-14 days over a period of no longer than six weeks. At this point we would like to emphasize once more that steroid novices should stay away from all testoster-one compounds since, at this time, they simply do not need them. The side effects of Sustanon are similar to those of Testosterone enanthate (see also Testosterone enanthate) only that they are usu-ally less frequent and less severe. Depending on the predisposition and dosage, the user can experience the usual androgenic-linked side effects such as acne, aggressiveness, sexual overstimulation, oily skin, accelerated hair loss, and reduced production of the body's own hormones. Water retention and gynecomastia are usually within limits with the "Sustas" or are not as massive as with enanthate and cypionate. Liver damage is unlikely with Sustanon (see Test-osterone enanthate); however, in very high dosages, elevated liver values can occur which, after discontinuing use of the compound, usually go back to normal. The fact that the liver is a very efficient organ and able to cope well with higher quantities of testosterone is confirmed in the book Doping-verbotene Arzneimittel im Sport by Dirk Clasing and Manfred Donike. On page 54 the authors state: "The liver is able to metabolize an almost unlimited amount of tes-tosterone (2 g of rat liver are able to break down 100 mg/day of testosterone). "
Sustanon is well distributed on the black market and readily avail-able. It is difficult to find the less frequently available original "Susta. " On the black market mostly the Russian or Indian 5ustanon 250 (see photos) is sold. The Indian Sustanon 250 is manufactured in Calcutta, India, by Organon and officially destined for export to Russia. Through Czechoslovakia, however, large quantities of this original Sustanon 250 are smuggled to Europe and the U.S. The Russian Sustanon 250 comes in a plastic film; printed in blue ink on the back are the name of the compound, the manufacturer, and the included substances (see photo). This imprint is either stamped on aluminum foil or on white paper. Five ampules are combined in one strip whereas each ampule is packaged individually. Original Sustanon 250 usually costs S 12 - 18 per ampule on the black mar-ket and is certainly worth the price. In the meantime there are also several fakes of the Russian version which, however, can be easily identified by the rounded corners of the label. The originals always have a label with sharp corners.
02-18-2004, 06:20 PM #20New Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
Thanks for trying to help but i have read all this that is why i am asking specific questions?
02-18-2004, 06:51 PM #21
wk 1-10 sust 500mg a week (e3d)
wk 1-10 deca 400mg
wk 1-13 nolva 10mg
wk 13-16 PCT with clomid and nolva
and you say you dont want to take other types of test, but sust IS 4 test put together!
Last edited by Consistency; 02-18-2004 at 06:57 PM.
02-18-2004, 06:54 PM #22
05-03-2006, 12:59 AM #23New Member
Originally Posted by razor67
- Join Date
- May 2006
I have in my possession 15ml of 200mg/mL Testosterone Cypionate (minus 1.5 mL and so far a very sore leg), 35 Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) 20mg tabs, 25 Clomid tabs, and 6 Arimidex tabs.
Can someone give me a brief regimen of when to start the PCT therapy and how. Also, I will likely not have access to anymore cypionate , so would you recommend adhering to the higher 400mg per week dosage for a shorter time or stretching it out to 10 weeks?
Also, will I have any expectations of losing any of this spare tire during the time I'm cycling? It's not terrible, only a few pounds overweight considering my height, but I'd like to bulk and trim before August (return to grad school).
Any help appreciated, I'm finding tons of great info here. Also, when should I start seeing some gains and also when i start to lose it, will I still at least be better off than if I had never done it if I keep trying to lift at my peak cycle capacity afterwards?
I'm sure I haven't asked anything terribly new here, forgive me. Any help at least on the regimen would be great.
05-03-2006, 09:58 AM #24
IMO you dont have enough gear for a cycle man save it until you have enough to run the cyp for 500mg a week for 10 to 12 weeks but before that go with some more research your PCT doesnt sound like you have enough either
05-03-2006, 11:03 AM #25
05-03-2006, 01:31 PM #26New Member
Originally Posted by TestingTest
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
05-03-2006, 01:33 PM #27
OMFG why did you bump a thread form 2years ago! ><
05-03-2006, 01:46 PM #28
This thread is two years old...
05-03-2006, 01:58 PM #29Originally Posted by BigJames
05-04-2006, 01:16 AM #30New Member
- Join Date
- May 2006
Guys I sincerely appreciate the good answers given all the warnings about newbie questions around here!
Anyway, for PCT, I've got room to grow, I work in a pharmacy and can get some more of the basic stuff, at least the tamoxifen and clomid anyway. The anti-cancer stuff is really expensive and we don't carry very much. I can stretch the cyp to 20mL if I bogart that second bottle I was gonna split with a buddy who's already huge anyway.
Me: I'm 34, 6'6" 243 lbs (down from 280 in January thanks to a high protein, low fat diet, cardio and weight training). I'm already following most of the basic rules, drinking a lot, eating 6 meals etc... I'm not so much a newbie to fitness as I definitely am to anything like AS.
I will revise with respect to your good answers. I will do 400mg for 10 weeks. I do not want b!tch tits, would prefer hard muscle and wish to optimize the fat burning, even if at some expense to other gains. I know the estrogen plays a large role in this and I'm wondering if I shouldn't start at least 10mg/day tamoxifen during the entire cycle? (then 20mg+clomid and Letrozole for a month).
I've since acquired 30 Femera tabs, but I see now that it takes something like 60 days to be effective? Won't it clear out a great portion of my estrogen in a month's time?
Does any of this change your opinions? I'm probably never going to do more than a 10-12 week cycle, or possibly even this again. I'm not a competitor, this is really more of a midlife-crisis-want-my-best-summer-ever thing...
Anyway, I'm already invested in this and likely won't get talked out of doing it at all, but I really want to do it the best I can, so I value your advice. My poor 34 year old balls couldn't possibly be squirting more than 4mg test a day, so I'd be flabbergasted if this doesn't work amazingly for me. Heck i can't even grow a respectable mustache.
Last edited by TestingTest; 05-04-2006 at 01:29 AM.
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