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  1. #1
    jsr
    jsr is offline New Member
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    Hit a vene at Insulin IM injection

    What happen if I hit a vene while injecting insulin IM? If you take your dextrosshake immeadiately, Is it dangerous?
    How do you guys now that you not hitting a vene?
    I use slin pen. can I use it for IM injections?

  2. #2
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    Hi jsr, hitting a vein with a needle without injecting wont do anything. However, if you hit a vein and inject Insulin in the vein, well that's totally a different story. Injecting IV is very dangerous and is not recomended when using Insulin. If you injected Insulin IV and immidietly had your PWO nutrition, hypoglycemia side effects would hit you before the PWO nutrition even starts working against hypo. So whatever you do, do not inject Insulin in your vein. It is asking for a death wish. Insulin should be taken IM or Sub-Q.

    When doing IM injections, it is actually quite easy to hit a vein. For example, for the ones that do IM injections in the biecpt, it is easy to hit a vein as most peoples veins run along the surface of the skin on their bicept. This is where you don't want to inject. So here is a little tip for you. Before you have a shot (if injecting in the bicept), flex your bicept and see where the veins are, and which way they run along your arm (bicept). Once you know where abouts your veins run along, simply avoid those areas when injecting.

    Hope that helped, and be carefull.

    -Gear
    Last edited by Gear; 03-01-2005 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #3
    Gear's Avatar
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    By the way, yes you can use an Insulin syringes for IM. It can be used for both Sub-Q and IM. Welcome to AR and enjoy your stay. Lots of helpfull information here regards to just about anything you may be curious about.

    -Gear

  4. #4
    jsr
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    Thanks alot Gear!

    But I have som unanswered questions:

    1. If you have a lot of fat on your arms, (like me) its hard to sea the veins.
    Cann't I check it in another way or am I forced to "guess"?

    2. What do you think about this? I "guessing" an area of my arm where I dont see any veins. I start with 2 IUs and working me up. I use same place everytime. Then I would feel if I hit a vein (hypo), but it never appear so drastic in only 2IUs? (You can survive 2IUs IV?).. after I've find this place I inject it every time after that... What do you think about that?

    3. Say you inject 10 IUs. What about dividing these units on 3 injections on differnet places. so every part is 3,33IU. Then the hypo may not appear so severe?

    Sorry If my explanations are bad.

  5. #5
    jsr
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    Bump.

  6. #6
    spound's Avatar
    spound is offline Anabolic Member
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    Aspirate bro, adn that shoudl take care of avoiding any veins.

  7. #7
    Whitey is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsr
    Thanks alot Gear!

    But I have som unanswered questions:

    1. If you have a lot of fat on your arms, (like me) its hard to sea the veins.
    Cann't I check it in another way or am I forced to "guess"?

    2. What do you think about this? I "guessing" an area of my arm where I dont see any veins. I start with 2 IUs and working me up. I use same place everytime. Then I would feel if I hit a vein (hypo), but it never appear so drastic in only 2IUs? (You can survive 2IUs IV?).. after I've find this place I inject it every time after that... What do you think about that?

    3. Say you inject 10 IUs. What about dividing these units on 3 injections on differnet places. so every part is 3,33IU. Then the hypo may not appear so severe?

    Sorry If my explanations are bad.
    What's up bro! Welcome to AR. Your first question makes me wonder what your objective is in working with insulin . Do you mind sharing your stats and goals - that might help us understand better what you want to know. Second, I always inject IM in the quad. It is helpful to inject in a very lean area, since you're working with a slin pin, and I find the quads to be the easiest lean area to inject. Third, this just won't help at all. Just make your IM injection (aspirate !), get your dextrose, then your protein, and have a meal with proteing and some complex carbs an hour later.

    Get back to us on that first question, though, bro - and we can def. help you more.

  8. #8
    Gear's Avatar
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    To avoid hitting a veing, simply aspirate as mentioned above by spound. Don't worry about splitting 10IU into 3 shots. Shooting 10IU at once or taking taking 3 x 3.3IU shots is the same effect wise. So just take all of the 10IU at once.

    Start of at a low dose, probably 2 - 3 IU, and like I said, everytime you have a shot aspirate. If there is blood in the syringe, pull the syringe out and try shooting in another spot. If there is no blood in the syringe then I don't see why you could not shoot in that spot.

    If this is your first time using Insulin , don't cross the 10IU mark as there is really no need to, and perhaps you could start of using Insulin Sub-Q if you are not very confident shooting IM. Anyway, either way will be fine, so it's up to you to decide on what you want to do.

    Do you mind me asking you what your goals are what your trying to achive?

    Good luck.

    -Gear

  9. #9
    jsr
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    Thanks everybody!

    My stats are:
    Age: 21
    Weight: 230lbs
    Length: 173cm (5'9 ?)
    I have done 2 AScycles, one with 8 week testo enanthtat/testo prop, and another one 12 week susta and dbol ...
    I have trained for 4 years serious..
    My goal is to grow lika a horse . and also compete In bodybuilding in the future!
    My diet and training are very strict..

    In about 2 weeks I'll start my PCT with Insulin (and of course clomid, ZMA, tribulus, creatine, glutamin and so on) to help my body in the catabilic phase..
    I've thought about doing twice a day during traingdays (morning, PWO).
    On off days I only do it in the morning.
    For the first I've planned to do it Sub-Q but I think IM would be better for me..

    You talked about aspirate , but can you aspirate with a slin pen?
    And It would be fun if someone here could tell me about how insulin are during PCT. Is it very helpful to prevent muscle and strenth loss?

  10. #10
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    Glad to know that your diet is in tact, as that is the most important part when Insulin is in the picture. I will just give you a tip to keep in mind before you start using Insulin. When you start using Insulin, your chances of fat storage increase by far, and wether you gain fat or not all depends on your diet. So I hope your right about saying your diet is very strict.

    If you are going to take Insulin, only take it PWO, no need to take it twice per day. Once is enough. You can take it on off days in the AM to stave off catabolism but I would not recomnd that as taking Insulin in the AM on off days increases the chances of fat storage by far when compared to taking Insulin PWO. So as a beginner, I would really stick to taking Insulin on training days only, PWO.

    Insulin is defenitly more beneficial when taken IM, but Sub-Q will get the job done. Desicion is yours.

    Yes you can aspirate with a Insulin syringe. The method is the same as when aspirating with any other pin.

    Insulin during PCT can be beneficial as it may help you gain/maintain weight while at that time your body is fighting to do the same thing. So this is a good time to use Insulin.

    Hope that helped.

    -Gear
    Last edited by Gear; 03-02-2005 at 02:35 AM.

  11. #11
    jsr
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    Thank you very much again gear.


    Yes you can aspirate with a Insulin syringe. The method is the same as when aspirating with any other pin.
    So you can aspirate with a isulin pen? (These who carries e.g. 300IUS that diabetic persons have!) Insulin syringe = Insulin pen?

    Sorry If I don't understand what you wrote but english Is not my first language!


    The diet I've planned to do are a summary what I've learnt over the Internet, you can take a look at it if you want to, and comment if you see any mistakes:

    2.00 Workout
    3.00 The workout ends, 10IUs Insulin, 100g dextros, 10g creatin, 10g glutamin
    3.15 75g wheyprotein (about 90grams 80% powder) in water
    4.00 High protein meal, 40g rather quick carbs, NO fats
    (5.00 High protein meal, 30g of a little bit slower carbs, NO Fats) If I take it Sub-Q

    After that my diet continue as on usual days.
    1 hour before workout I eat a meal without fat!
    When I've done insulin a couple of days I should try to decrerase the dextros to mayby 80g PWO if I don't see any signs of hypo. I have a "bloodsugar-tester" (or what do you call it?) too.

  12. #12
    Gear's Avatar
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    Ohh right, now I understand. You are using the actual Insulin "pen" that holds 300IU of Insulin. Sorry bro, my mistake, I was under the impression that you were talking about regular Insulin syringes we use these days. It's not your english, your well spoken actually, its my lack of understanding, its all in me, my bad.

    Ok, well if you have the Insulin "pen" and are using that, then I'm sad to inform you that there is no way you can aspirate with those because of the way those pens operate. You already should know this as you have one. Those pens are specificly made for diabetics that do a lot of travelling as those pens can be carried around without having to have to carry bottles and syringes. This makes things a lot eaiser for the diabetics. It's quite a little tool actually, very well made that's easy to use, just not what bodybuilders prefer. The only thing I could think of is to get the actual U-100 Insulin syringes and use them as with those you can defenitly aspirate. Even though aspirating is important no matter what you are injecting, I don't really aspirate when using Insulin. Sometimes I do as it's a formed habbit, sometimes I don't. Because I have used Insulin syringes in the past a fair few times and I know where to inject, I really don't worry about hitting a vein. I always have bicept shots, and before I inject I subtitute aspirating with flexing my bicept to see where the veins are. After I have done that I know excatly where to, and where not to inject as I then would know where abouts my veins are. But you said that you can't really see you veins so that could be a problem. Another option you could look at is taking it Sub-Q. When having Sub-Q shots, (once again aspirating is very important) the chances of something going wrong by having a shot around belly area Sub-Q are 1 - 1000. Up to you.

    2.00 looks good
    2.00 looks good
    3.15 looks good (you could use 75g instead of 90g as 75 is enough but either way is fine, this is only ptional)
    4.00 looks good (once again you could change the time from 4.00 to 4.15 if you like, but you don't have to. After my protein shake, I wait about 1hr to have my dinner, this way I have given my body time to digest all the PWO nutrients. Apart from that, the 4.00 nutrient intake looks good).
    5.00 should be about 6.00. (I know its good to take advantge of all the food you have eaten post injection as Insulin is force feeding your muscle cells, but you don't want to have your meals too close together).
    Your next meal could be anything as by then Insulin would not longer be active.

    So it should look something like this:

    2:00: workout
    3:00: end workout, immidietly have 10IU, immidietly have 100g dex, 10g creatine and 10g glutamine
    3.15: 75g protein isolate
    4.15: Dinner, (50g protein 40g carbs)
    6.15: Meal, (50g protein 40g carbs)
    Your next meal after 6.15 may be anything you like as by then Insulin will no longer be active.

    Don'r eat too much before you train, I don't like to train on a full stomach, and I'm assuming most other people would feel the same way. Just have enough carbohydrates about 1.5hrs before your workout to keep your energy levels stable throughout the workout.

    You can defenitly play with your dextrose intake post injection. I know some people that take a lot less than 10g of carbs for every 1IU of Insulin. So just find your comfy zone where you get most gains and minimum side effects. Be carefull as experimenting with Insulin by trying to find that "comfy zone" can be dangerous.

    Hope that cleared up what you need to know.

    P.S. Go and get some U100 pins and use them, or take Insulin Sub-Q around the belly area.

    -Gear

  13. #13
    jsr
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    i've allready ordered my insulinpens so I start doing it SubQ.
    But for my next insulin cycle I will definately buy u-100 syringes and shot it IM.


    thanks Gear, your info definately help a lot!

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