Thread: Bridging with slin and LR3
04-11-2005, 06:13 PM #1
Bridging with slin and LR3
This was posted by LA at BeyondMass, it's called the 4-4-4 method
Bridging with Slin and Long R
Warning- What follows is a fictional account of what some people are doing. No one should use insulin or IGF in the manner described for any reason without a doctor script. No one in their right mind would ever do anything described in this article!
Picture this- youíve just ended a 12 week cycle. You are looking goooood now bro. Youíve put on 20 pounds and everyone has noticed. Strength is thru the roof. Now youíre wishing the pencil necks would come up to you and ask you how much you can bench!
But at last, all good things must come to an end. Youíve taken the last shot of prop on Friday and its Monday. Time to start on clomid. Youíre going to keep all 20 pounds unlike your two friends who gave back nearly all their gains after their cycles. After all, youíve got the genetics they donít. Now fast forward 8 weeks. You are now down 15- thatís right 15 pounds! What happened?
Well what happened is I didnít write this article until after it was too late for you! (Now that was arrogant!)
Ok, lets look at what I feel are the most common mistakes made when ending a cycle before we get to the ďchemical solutionĒ. After all there may be actually 2 or 3 individuals who may not want to use slin and Long R to bridge (nah).
Mistake number 1- You continue do the same workout after youíve come off as you did while on. Big one here folks. This could be the single most important reason people loose the gains theyíve made. If there is one thing worse than a lack of testosterone , itís an abundance of cortisol. The juicer feels that he wants to keep his new found super powers, so he keeps doing the grueling 20 sets per bodypart in the 8-12 rep range. Unfortunately, pushing yourself physically harder here isnít good for your body. Cortisol levels rise rapidly after the 45 minute mark. 1 Ĺ to 2 hour workouts produce enough cortisol to shred your hard earned muscles faster than a beaver shreds wood. The trick here is to cut your workouts down to no more than 45 minutes long. Next drop the sets to fit within the 45 minute mark. If you really, really trust me (or at least try it once then tell me Iím full of ****) cut your sets down to no more than 6-8 per major bodypart and 4-6 for the smaller ones. Now also drop your rep range down into the 4-6 range. Now comes the good part. Keep your weights as high as you possibly can! So you were benching 3 plates for the first time in your life- good, but now just do 2 sets between 4-6 reps and move on.
Mistake number 2- ďIím fat, and I want my abs backĒ. Too f-ing bad! If thatís the case you shouldnít have done the AS cycle to begin with. Your body just put on 20 pounds. Thatís a foreign concept to it. It wants to give the muscle back. You have to stop it. By cutting calories you are only helping it along. Now hear this, now hear this. You canít cut (especially without AS) for at least another 12 weeks. So please inform your girlfriend or anyone else who cares, that you will remain a second cousin of ďThe BlobĒ for a few weeks longer.
See, the body has ďset-pointsĒ. For those of you unfamiliar with the concept, a set-point is a natural point of weight in which the body strives to be at. It somehow ďremembersĒ it. This can easily be seen when bulking or cutting. Ever notice how for example when you diet-down, itís easy to get letís say get from 220 to 205. But then pushing past 205 becomes a labor of hate! Then when you eventually do, its smooth sailing down to 185. 205 and 185 are set-points. They are different for each person on earth and the number that each person has varies also.
Mistake Number 3- ďMy test levels will be back to normal in 4 weeksĒ. Yeah right. Iíve got a friend who gets tested 4 weeks post cycle. He does everything right chemically while coming off. This means he sticks with arimdex (or equivalent) for 3 weeks post cycle and doses clomid correctly also. If it were me (and thank God for HRT so I donít have to experience this first hand) Iíd stick with the arimidex for 12 weeks. Youíve heard me right. The first hindrance in the recovery of HPTA is high estrogen. Besides, do you really want to turn some of that test once your body does start to produce it again into estrogen? Factor the dex into the equation while planning your next cycle. Itís cheap and available today.
Now for the 4 week mark, who came up with this anyway? Give yourself 12. Most of you donít get tested post cycle so even if you feel ďnormalĒ again there is no real proof that you are. Sure youíre chasing your girlfriend around and lifts are on the rise again in the gym but that doesnít mean you are 100%. Plan a full 12 weeks to recover before you either 1- start on another cycle or 2- start to cut.
Ok now that I feel like Iíve covered the major pitfalls of coming off, itís time for a little chemical assistance. Quickly, the myth that you can recover HPTA with a low dose of var or dbol first thing in the morning is just that- a myth. Stay away from it. More androgens at this time will only slow the recovery period. You came off cold for a reason. To start the recovery period as quickly as possible, so what we need here is assistance of the non-AS type. Enter slin and Long-R!
We are going to break the rest of the discussion out into 3 4 week sessions. Our goals for weeks 1-4 are to not let the scale drop. We have a problem. We canít keep eating the same amount of food we did while on cycle. Without all that AS pumping through us we would get fat if we did. So what to do instead? We use slin to get the most out of the calories we do consume. The first 4 weeks we are going to use slin post cycle. The amount of slin you use should be relative to your experience with slin. This articleís intentions are not to give a detailed account of how to use slin. If you donít know, then you need to research. So we are going to cut our calories some. How much? Well we should go back to take a look at what we were eating before the cycle began. Then figure in the additional 20 pounds. At most start with 500 a day and adjust from there. Clen is also a welcome addition the first 2 weeks off. We are using clen here for it's anti-catabolic properties. With Clen in the mix we are going to cut calories less the 1st two weeks, then drop then further the 2nd two. Also, we are not going to increase our cardio level at all. What ever you were doing during the bulker is fine here. If it was none- then donít start! If we accomplish our goal the only weight we loose here is going to be water (and with the slin there shouldnít be much of that). Thatís the good news. The bad new is that our bodyfat percentage wonít change. Hopefully we arenít fatter or leaner, but we have given our body 4 weeks more to get used to that 20 pounds.
Next- weeks 5-8 we are going to add IGF Long R (and drop the slin). Again this article isnít being written to help you decide how much Long R youíll need. The goal for the next for weeks is again- not to drop weight! Now this is going to be tricky with the Long R. The Long R is going to start the fat burning process. Just by taking the Long R itís going to make us leaner. This is good, however we donít want to drop weight. So what do we do? We are going to be forced to increase calories slightly (argh, lol!). Thatís right. We dropped them during the first 4 weeks now we are going to have to increase them again. Now, not as much probably as when on cycle but we are going to have to check that scale quite frequently and make sure it doesnít head south on us. Also no changes to cardio here either! The end result after 4 weeks, our bodyfat percentage will go down slightly and we will end up with a couple more pounds of muscle. The reason we put the IGF in weeks 5-8 also is too clean up those slin receptors. Now after 8 weeks, the scale hasnít changed, bodyfat has improved slightly and we have clean slin receptors heading into the home stretch.
Final stage- weeks 9-12. Back on slin. Time to cut calories again. How much depends on if you plan on increasing cardio at this point. You can increase cardio slightly if you desire. Again, make sure your goal is not to make the scale move- up or down! The final 4 weeks gives us a total of 12 weeks for our body to except the additional 20 pounds we put on during our cycle as its new ďset-pointĒ. The last 4 weeks wonít be seeing our bodyfat percentage move again. Itís only now that we can make the statement that out gains are permanent!
Also the last 2 weeks we can start to incorporate a new routine. What ever we plan on doing for the period following this 12 weeks can now be practiced. However, donít go overboard on sets and reps. Just get your new routine time to break in and get some of the weights and the movements down.
What I just described is what I call the 4-4-4 method. It also can be used during cycle to increase gains while on. The method is very economical when you factor the cost slin (cheap) and Long R (expensive) together- over 12 weeks time. So the next time you are planning a 12 week bulker, make it a 24 weeker. Place the ď24Ē into your mind set from the beginning and afterwards youíll be ensured that the gains youíve made are real.
Till next time- LA out and itís ďJust My OpinionĒ!
Copyright 2003 BeyondMass.com
Author's Note- Scorpio will be doing a series (3) of follow-up articles following the protocol of this article. Look for the first of the series- "****, I'm Still Fat" in next month's eZine!
04-11-2005, 06:13 PM #2
Personal Journal of my post cycle-bridge using
LAís 4-4-4 theory (Part 1) - by Scorpio
Alas the time has come, the end of my bulker approaches. Having gained a lot of weight and made great strength gains I, like everyone, wish to keep and maintain of as much of this as humanly possible. After talking to LA I decided to adopt his theory/program. Iíd like to point out this is totally his design and work, I am simply a lab rat, so to speak.
At the end of my bulker I used Long R IGF-1 for the last four weeks. The compound was remarkable, eat as much as you want and lose weight, get more definition, and always feel ďpumped.Ē Sounds like a ďtoo good to be true!Ē ad, however I can say it worked for me.
His program is fairly simple. 4 weeks of insulin , then 4 weeks of IGF, then 4 weeks of insulin again. I must note that I have used insulin in the past and have had great results with it. I am no novice to this, I did not take this journey lightly and always do my homework first, as should anyone. LA wisely cautioned me that since I just came off IGF-1, that I will be more insulin receptive (caution noted here,) and to take it slow at the beginning. Iím also starting directly with clenbuterol (typical ramp) for itís anti-catabolic properties/ fat burning. Also Arimidex to reduce estrogen (I know you know this already, get on with it!!)
I will start this with the first four weeks, which would be the Insulin (part 1).
The program starts with a typical clenbuterol ramp on day one.
.25mgs arimidex every other day
10iuís humalog post workout
15 iuís Humalin r 4 hours later.
Fat shall be reduced while the insulin is active, Protein shall be at least 2.5 grams per body pound However caloric intake shall be reduced by 1000 from the bulker.
Now the part I shall have a problem with, workouts shall reduced. Sets for each body part reduced to 6 to 8 low rep. No cardio. In LA's words,"when you want to add in more sets.....DON'T!!
Week 1 thru 4 and quick background.
Before starting this post cycle journey, it would make sense to quickly mention the cycle itself. It was a simple cycle that I used for bulking
Weeks 1-12 1000mgs Test entethenate a week
Weeks 1-12 500mgs Deca a week
Weeks 1-5 50mgs od Dianabol every day.
Weeks 4-8 Humolog 10iuís Post work out 2 times a week.
IGF-1 Long R weeks 8-12 50mcgs everyday 5 days on 2 days off.
This cycle gave me great strength, and I added a lot of weight, and of course body fat with it.
After the last week of the cycle and IGF-1, I immediatley started a clenbuterol ramp and Arimidex. I also started my Insulin. My calories were decreased, and macro break down was 50% protein, 30%carbs, and 20% fat. Using a tape measure for a waist guide, I started out at 37". (hey I was bulking.)
According to LAís dosage pattern I was to do 10iuís post workout form day one of Humalog and 4 hours later 15iuís Humalin-R. After his warning about IGF-1 and itís effect on insulin, I decided to start at 5iuís, to gauge the effect. I noted no problems and continued with my normal insulin routine until the later doseage which I went at 10iu. No problems to note and throughout the week I ramped in up quickly to the desired dose.
I began to notice quickly that the insulin was giving me great pumps and much more muscle fullness then before. IGF-1 increases insulin sensitivity, and I noticed more results with insulin almost immediately. The ester was still full in my system, however by dropping my calories by 1000 and adding clenbuterol and Arimidex, I began losing water and bodyfat at a slow pace. The ďless repĒ workout seemed a little silly at first, especially with the ester full in my system, however by weeks end the pumps where more severe and noted to myself ďless is moreĒ frequently.
I lost about 5 pounds, I believe mostly water. The clenbuterol was really in me and Iím a house of fire on it. Insulin going well, no problems to note. Still noting muscle fullness. The appearance of losing more bodyfat is noticable. Strength at the gym has maintained, liking the less is more routine that he gave me. Hit it hard in intense and get the hell out of there. Plus with no cardio I have a lot of time on my hands. Clenbuterol is ramping down by weeks end. Arimidex to continue throughout. Using the tape again I lost one inch in waist measurement. Mostly water I assume.
Totally off the Clenbuterol, miss the kick, but I was becoming immune to it anyhow. After talking to LA I decided to up my post workout slin from 10iuís to 15iuís. Still noticing full pumps, had one bad incident and went a little hypo, this has never happened to me before. I immediatley got dizzy, cold, and then started to sweat. I grabbed a can of pepsi and it went away immediatley. Must note that I dropped the calories by 750, per LAís scheme. Weight has dropped 8 pounds. Strength however has pretty much maintained. Feeling fuller and the pumps are great, looking forward to the IGF-1 at the beginning of week 5. At the end of this week I begin clomid therapy, nothing out of the norm, just wanted to mention it. Using the tape yet again, I noticed that I lost only 1/4 of an inch around the wasit this week, for a total of 1 1/4 inches thusfar.
Getting itchy to get back on the IGF. It's one week away. No problems to note thusfar. The low reps are serving me well, I'm maintaining weight. The insulin helped with maintaining size. Weight loss has leveled off I remain at 8lbs lost so far. Using the tape measure, yet again, I have lost nothing this week around the waist. I assume the insulin had something to do with that also, due to my diet being clean. I'm curious as to the effect of the IGF now and how much fat I shall lose. Overall so far I'm pleased with the results and what I maintained.
Next issue-Weeks 5 thru 8 my trial with IGF alone.
Copyright 2003 BeyondMass.com
04-11-2005, 06:13 PM #3
Personal Journal of my post cycle-bridge using
LAís 4-4-4 theory (Part II) - by Scorpio
This is the part Iíve been waiting for! The second part of LAís theory is to use Long R-IGF-1 directly after using insulin . Now Iíve used IGF before, however it was during a cycle. I was excited to try it alone to gauge the results.
First off Iíll be using Cyber-Solutioz Long R-igf-1. I know and trust this company, so Iím giving them theyíre due here. After receiving my ďliquid goldĒ I placed it directly in the freezer. Iíve read theories how itís fine in the sock drawer, and all of that. However I donít take chances. I will be running the IGF at 50mcgs every day, five days a week, and two days off. I had great success with this pattern before, so Iím sticking with it.
I always use a insulin syringe for IGF, who doesnít right? The way mine was prepared, and they may have changed it by now, was it was 10mcgs per IU. So obviously, I will need 5 IUís to make the 50mcg. I also use u-100 insulin syringes. On a U-100, every ďtickĒ or measuring unit is 2 IUís. If your not sure how your insulin syringe is measured out, count how many ticks they are until the 10 mark, if there are 5 then itís by twoís. Now I know some IGF vets and pulling out theyíre hair right now, saying ďJesus Scorpio, get on with it! I know this already!ĒHowever I spend a lot of my days describing how I do this, and what better outlet then to describe it here, so bear with me.
I also do all of my IGF injections intramuscular, Iíve read horror stories about the painful welts that are left after doing Sub-Q injections. I also do the injections, post workout, I had great success with this before, plus it makes me a little sleepy, who wants to be a zombie in the gym? I do the injections all in the biceps, yep you read that right, the biceps. I find the peak and insert and inject there, does it hurt? A little, but hey, itís the result your after. I guarantee that the pumps you will get and localized growth, yes I believe this theory, are well worth 10 seconds of discomfort.
One last thing, I can hear the vets draw a sigh of relief, I always preload my insulin syringe. I either use straight BA or BW. Why preload? Well if you have anything left in the ďpinĒ you donít want it to be IGF, rather it be BA or BB. After I preload, I then load my undiluted IGF. I say undiluted, because there was a theory floating around that you should dilute it with so much BW for storage, that theory has been washed by LA.
OK, on to the experiment!
Week 1- Still on arimidex and finishing my clomid treatment. Now to be fair, I came off insulin the day before and insulin gives me huge pumps. I am still using LAís ďless is moreĒ program for weight training. I begin my IGF, 50mcgs a day 5 days a week. I measured my waist and it is at about 36 inches. My protein intake will be 3 times my body weight, yes rub your eyes, itís not a typo, itís a 3. Now the good part, I get to increase calories. Almost back to my bulking cycle diet. The macro break down will be Protein 40%, carbs 40%, fat 20%. I begin the ďtherapyĒ and in my first injection I relish the memory of injecting ice cold BA into a muscle. For those that havenít tried it, itís an odd sensation. Anyway, I do not notice much for the first four day. I felt tired a few times, however nothing out of the ordinary. The fifth day, I notice that I am a little hungrier than normal and onto the weeks end I notice the pumps begin to increase.
Week 2- Itís game time and the severe, toothache feeling, pumps arrive. Iím also ravenous. If you think EQ makes you hungry, try this stuff. My strength goes down slightly, however I contribute that to the painful pumps. I know they will increase, so I grin and bear it for now. I notice in the mirror that, though I increased calories and weigh the same I appear leaner. My waist size is down 1/4 of an inch. I also notice that the muscle formation, especially the peak of my bi, appears fuller and rounder.
Week 3- Ok, I thought the pumps were bad last week, it hurts now to actually grip a EZ-curl bar. My forearms hurt terrible. If youíve ever done multiple sets of 21's and felt that aching burn, then you know what doing curls is like for me, however this is on every set. Painfully euphoric, yes Iím going to hell. I have to fight to not eat the crap my wife buys the kids, the ďlittle DebbieĒ cakes. I eat almost nonstop and if I do not eat prior to bedtime, I wake up with severe hunger pains. After doing a few sets of anything, I really feel pumped and I get a few questions from fellow gym goers, such as ďlosing weight? Doing a lot of cardio, your arms are fullerĒ There is no difference in waist size this week, which surprised me. I thought I would of gained as much as Iím eating.
Week4- As happy as I was to start this, Iíll be as happy to stop. The pumps maintain their severe burning and Iíve dropped weight to work out with. If LA were here I would kiss him for not making me do more sets. Hunger maintains itís course. I measure my waist once more and it appears to be the same, I lose 1/4 inch there, and maintain weight, nice deal. Muscles appear full with a different ďrounderĒ formation. I think about next week and starting insulin again and worry slightly about the IGF making me insulin sensitive.
Next issue: End result.
Copyright 2003 BeyondMass.com
04-11-2005, 06:14 PM #4
End Result of Using LAís 4-4-4 Theory as a Bridge Ė by Scorpio
As some, I hope a lot, of you have read. Iím using LAís 4-4-4 week program as a bridge. 4 week insulin , 4 weeks Lr-igf-1, 4 weeks insulin. The final four weeks are here and Iím currently planning my next cycle after the weeks are over. To check my previous progress and journal on this journey, please visit other issues of the ezine.
Iím happy as hell to come off of the igf, mostly due to the insane pumps I receive from it. However going back on the insulin I now must watch my diet and reduce calories. Not so much of a problem on IGF. Iím still maintaining the course of using Arimidex at .25mgs every day.
I remember from LAís warnings earlier to watch insulin sensitivity after using igf-1. Like I said in the first 4 weeks of this journey, I am no stranger to using insulin, Iíve done my homework and have a past experience with it. It is not to be taken lightly, if you are considering doing this, you are a fool if do not study the precautions and take safety measures. The course I intend to run is 10iuís Humalog directly post workout. Then 4 hours later 15 iuís Humalin-R. This is a routine Iíve done and know, however Iím cautious due to knowing that I just came off IGF-1. So for the first few days, Iím starting at 5iuís post workout and 8 iuís 4 hours later. No shame in being cautious with this, this is not a compound that you want to make mistakes with. Iím please with the gradual ramp that I set up and notice no sides or signs of going hypo, however I keep some skittles nearby just in case. I drop my calories by 1000, which sucks, and pay strict attention to fat intake after using insulin, also sucks. I had very bad ďpumpsĒ while working out on igf-1, Iím hoping that they subside, however during this week, I still notice them to a great degree. Iím still using LAís ďless is moreĒ style of lifting, doing less sets per body part. Iíve currently lost 8lbs during the first 8 weeks since the cycle ended and hardened up a lot with the igf-1, I notice no new weight loss during this week.
The pumps become more tolerable this week, they subside to a great degree. No sides thus far with the Insulin and like the fullness I get from it. The pumps I get now resemble the pumps and fullness I usually feel while on insulin, compared to the nagging toothache feeling pumps I get in IGF-1. I lose another pound this week. I assume due to the calorie reduction, still no cardio in this scheme.
Another reduction in calories, per Mr. LA. Down another 750. Iím glad that Iím not on IGF-1 and doing calorie reduction, due to the deceases hunger I get from it. I still get the really full feeling from the insulin. However look much leaner then from the beginning of this journey. Looking ahead Iím considering my next cycle, and my last week left in this scheme. Thus far I lost a total of 9 lbs, nothing this week.
The last week is here, I lose another pound, I assume due to the calorie reduction. In total I lost 10lbs. And 2 inches around the waist. Iím happy with the way this bridge turned out. The largest thing I noticed was not a large decrease in strength compared to what I usually feel using insulin alone. I like the weight loss and feels and looks like it is in all the right places and have maintained a lot of muscle. I recommend this scheme as a bridge to anyone who has insulin experience and hopes to maintain as much of theyíre cycle gains as possible. The only warning I can think of is to watch the insulin sensitivity after using igf.
04-11-2005, 07:59 PM #5
This is similar to what I've been planning once I come of my current long cycle. Except I was planning on using 40mcg of IGF-1 LR3 along with 10ius of slin pwo and potentially 8-10ius of slin in the a.m. (I train in the afternoon) for 4 weeks. Then 10mg of PGF2-A 5x per day for the next 4 weeks, then back on the IGF-1 and slin. I posted it in the PCT forum under "The ultimate PCT" a few months ago.
It's interesting that this guy mentions an increase in insulin sensitivity after using IGF-1 LR3, as Einstein1905 thought it would be the opposite.
04-11-2005, 08:17 PM #6
I don't entirely understand using the Humalin after the pwo humalog. He must be working out in the morning (which I didn't see addressed in the article) and then using slin almost all day long. IMO, it would be better to workout in the afternoon since you are at your most catabolic in the morning. An a.m. humalog shot would help to stave this catabolism and then another humalog shot pwo would help build muscle. I just don't see the point in lifting while you are at your most catabolic if you really don't have to. Any thoughts?
04-11-2005, 11:17 PM #7
04-12-2005, 10:15 AM #8
i think its definately a good idea to go with the igf and slin during the pct.....creats new muscle cells for the next cycle.....
04-12-2005, 05:32 PM #9Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I'm just wondering where the idea of IGF-1 LR3 increasing insulin sensitivity after the cycle was proposed. Einstein may be banned but he is still the smarted guy I've ever talked to about this kind of stuff.
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