time to come clean, is it too late?

[MMAasrealasitgets]

Hi all,

Long story short, and sorry for making the mistakes.

A few years ago I took anavar only cycle, 12 weeks. On the back of which I started a 4 week PCT with Nolva (sorry cant remember the mg but ED). Half way through my PCT I had my bloods done and my T levels were obviously low at the time around 14-16 nmol. The endo I saw said my system was fubar from the anavar and TRT was the only way forward – I listened to his advice as he said to stop the PCT as it was nothing more than adding to the disaster.

I immediately went onto a TRT of 4ml testosterone undecanoate every 8 weeks for 2 years. My levels reached around 16-19 nmol (ref range of 8-38). But short of increasing the dosage which they refused, my only option was to keep the frequency of depot injections short around 7-8 weeks.

However, I wanted to try for another baby and of course TRT makes you shoot blanks (I was never informed and nor did I question the endo about getting sperm frozen as I was fertile before the anavar cycle). So back in Oct 2013 I did my last TRT injection. No PCT, just cold turkey under the advise of the NHS where I have allowed my levels to adjust back to whatever normal would be.

My LH, FSH and T levels are all borderline low as of last month:

T – 8.6
FSH – 5
LH - 4

The Endo and other specialist say that is now my natural T level and there is nothing they can do. My missis is pregnant and I know that would have happened as March last year my sperm levels returned to healthy by volume etc.

Howver, I am not in this to be told that’s normal. So would anyone approve or recommend a Nolva/Clomid PCT eve at this stage in a view to getting my LH FSH production back up and running or is it lost hope?

I am still researching a proper Test based cycle (another discussion for another day) which I would look to do at some point even if it just restarts the system but I have already got HCG , Nolva and Clomid. I wont make the same mistake as before so I WILL NOT rush into anything again, but I would really like to know if a late stage PCT would have any advantages / disadvantages?

I am fully aware I will be in for a kicking for doing an Anavar only cycle, and tbh I deserve that, but no amount is going to undo the passages of time and my infertility, low T levels and symptoms of having to put up with the shame of fu cking up my HPTA system for the last few years are enough to correct my errors.

What I am left with is an endo who has formally written me off and no other specialists who will help as they all look at the levels and say ‘they are in range so must be adequate.

Stats – 15-17% bf, 6’6”, 255lbs/.

Genuine thoughts or advice

[numbere]

That's rough man, sounds like you have been through a lot in the last few years. You will get more responses if you move your thread to the Low Testosterone Treatment Forum. I believe that you can move it yourself by clicking on a blue link in the upper left corner of this window. If not then you can navigate to One On One With The Staff and ask a mod to move your thread. Members in that forum are much more knowledgeable about this subject than myself.

A nolva/clomid PCT wouldn't hurt and definitely worth a try. The only disadvantage I can think of is that it might not help to increase your levels. Another option you have (maybe after a nolva clomid PCT) is clomid therapy. Those who have the best results with clomid therapy began with low LH/FSH. Dr Jeffrey Dach has done a fair amount of research on clomid therapy for men with low T. Below is a forum I participated in last year on clomid therapy. It contains several links that I think you will enjoy reading.

[hawk14dl]

Nolva clomid pct would be worth a try.

I have often wondered, in a case such as this. . Would a guy benefit from running a high blast of hcg for a few weeks prior to starting the pct? Something like 500iu 3x a wk for 3-4 weeks, then immediately into the standard clomid/Nolva pct?

[fxrjuiceman]

I'd say if your balls still haven't dropped all the way and your sex drive is low I'd definitely pct and double dose my clomid and nolva the first two weeks you have been shut down for a while man if I had hcg on hand then I'd probably blast it and then 3 days after start pct

[numbere]

Both hawk and fxr raise a valid option of adding hcg to another round of PCT. You may want to look into the Power PCT by Michael Scally (former) MD. A word of caution though, clomid and HCG at high doses can have adverse side effects. High doses of clomid can lead to vision problems the worst being an ocular thrombosis. Hcg at high doses can lead to desensitization of receptors.

[jimmyinkedup]

id run hcg blast followed by a clomid nolva pct to attempt a restart. Id do blood work 6-8 weeks after I stop the clomid/nolva pct to see where your levels are at.
As was mentioned google Scallys Power Pct, its prob your best bet at this point.

[MMAasrealasitgets]

Gentleman thanks ever so much for your replies, very good of you.

I am struggling to move the thread, doesnt seem to want to move so will ask a MOD to move it.

I do have some HCG but need to better understand how it will help at this moment in time and at what daily doeses/duartion step by step.
I wouldnt want to try VERY HIGH dosages of anything TBH but happy to try something along these lines maybe?

I am thinking as Nolva is more anti-estro I would be better with Clomid only:

Day 1 - 300mg clomid
Day2-11 - 100 mg ED
Day 12 - 21 - 50mg ED

or I could add 20mg of Nolva ED for the duration?

Am going to look at the links suggested, that sounds great..Once I am on teh correct path, I will defo post back and keep those interested updated on bloods and sitrep.

PS - what is classed as High Dose of Clomid / HCG?

[numbere]

Nolva is not an anti estrogen. Your best chance at recovery would include both nolva and clomid. A high dose of clomid is usually above 100-150 mg. A high dose of hcg is over 1000 IU/week.

[bigdil511]

Am I wrong but wouldn't hcg for a few weeks or a couple months than follow with proper pct of clomid/nolva give him a chance to restart?

[fxrjuiceman]

Gentleman thanks ever so much for your replies, very good of you. I am struggling to move the thread, doesnt seem to want to move so will ask a MOD to move it. I do have some HCG but need to better understand how it will help at this moment in time and at what daily doeses/duartion step by step. I wouldnt want to try VERY HIGH dosages of anything TBH but happy to try something along these lines maybe? I am thinking as Nolva is more anti-estro I would be better with Clomid only: Day 1 - 300mg clomid Day2-11 - 100 mg ED Day 12 - 21 - 50mg ED or I could add 20mg of Nolva ED for the duration? Am going to look at the links suggested, that sounds great..Once I am on teh correct path, I will defo post back and keep those interested updated on bloods and sitrep. PS - what is classed as High Dose of Clomid / HCG?

Bro never herd of 300 that's crazy. Stop being cheap and buy the real deal clomid and nolva

[hawk14dl]

Hcg 500iu 3x a week for 3-4 weeks
wait 3-4 days after last injection

Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

Don't try to reinvent the wheel here. The pct dosing is standard. The hcg is what i think you should run based on what I've read and my opinions. If anyone has a reason I'm wrong, by all means speak up.

This will give you a good chance at recovery

[hawk14dl]

Btw,dosing in my previous reply is weekly.
Week 1/week 2/week 3/week 4.

Over all complete pct time would be 7-8 weeks depending on how long you ran the hcg .

[MMAasrealasitgets]

Bro never herd of 300 that's crazy. Stop being cheap and buy the real deal clomid and nolva

sorry chap, not to sure what you mean buy the real deal - the clomid and nolva are both the real article as far as I am concerned from the usual sources. Unless you thought I meant its a sole tablet of 300mg? either way, my thoughts have been corrected by Hawk14dl over quants by which I presume they are daily doseages by week

Wk1 75mg clomid / 40mg nolva ED i.e (total 525mg / 280 mg pw)
Wk2 50mg clomid / 20 mg nolva ED i.e (total 350mg / 140 mg pw)
Wk3 50mg clomid / 20 mg nolva ED i.e (total 350mg / 140 mg pw)
Wk4 50mg clomid / 20 mg nolva ED i.e (total 350mg / 140 mg pw)

- its just the HCG I need to check on as I have two viles that obviously both need reconstituting but need to review elsewhere on mixing it and taking it.

really interesting getting everyone's feedback, starting to feel there is a chance!