anavar vs winny

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 07:28 AM

i am 30 getting ready to do my first cycle. right now i am trying to decide between anavar and winny. i know both are used in cutting cycles and winny generally should be used along with test. anavar can be taken alone and produce decent results from the research i have done. i have read that atheletes use both and have developed more endurance with them. if i understand correctly anavar does not aromatize in the liver and winny puts some strain ont it so caonstant checks of the liver should be done while on cycle. which one would be ther better overall on a high protein low carb diet for strength moderate size and increased endurance? also which would be better for 1st cycle? i am unable to take anything that promotes major growth and size right now due to job standard( military).

**goose** · 08-01-2006, 07:40 AM

Depends what you want, Oxandrolone causes a strong strength gain by stimulating the phosphocreatine synthesis in the muscle cell without depositing liquid (water) in the joints and the muscles,but for building muscle it`s VERY WEAK.Winny will build muscle and I think this would be better for you, 50 mg/day for 6-8 weeks.

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 08:09 AM

goose thanks for the info, time duration of the cycle do you think 6 weeks would be better first cycle or 8 weeks

**goose** · 08-01-2006, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by hardloser

goose thanks for the info, time duration of the cycle do you think 6 weeks would be better first cycle or 8 weeks

I`m one of the few guys around here that rate`s oral winny better than injection, similar results.So I would go for the oral.I would go for 6 weeks at a higher dose,as 15% is broken down by your liver being oral.If you opt for depot,50 will be fine.60-70 will yeild good results for oral,nothing spectacular as you will not have test.The guys one here that say you can`t do winny only cycles are full of shit!!

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 08:48 AM

goose, great news i just got off the phone with the hrt company and they said my free and total test was 330. the average level for my age they also said was just over 600. so i am good to go. i ordered a two month supply at 20 mg a day. do you think in your experience i should up the dosage at some point during the cycle and cut it down to 6 weeks?

**statuZ** · 08-01-2006, 09:26 AM

goose if thats u in that avatar that is ****ing MASSIVE!

**manc** · 08-01-2006, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by statuZ

goose if thats u in that avatar that is ****ing MASSIVE!

yeh lookin very good mate

**goose** · 08-01-2006, 10:36 AM

Thanks guys I really appreciate your kind words,I still need some work,but sky is the limit.It`s all about dedication!!!

hardloser-

I`m a little confused here,can you give me your stats,age? What cycle do you want to do? What are your true goals?

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 10:46 AM

goose i am 30 my ghrowth hormone level is 181 46 points below norm for my age and test level is 330 bf is 31 according to mil goals are to drop weight n cut gain some strength and increase overall athletic performance. it is very easy for me to gain weight and apperently hard for me to lose my diet is posted in the fitness forum under diet questions. here is a couple of pics so you guys can see what i look like side chest pose

**Anabolios** · 08-01-2006, 10:47 AM

20mg/ed? Not worth it IMO...the winny only cycle that Goose spoke of will give you a few pounds at best. I won't say test in every cycle because I don't personally advocate that but it just depends on your goals here..
No flame here bro..but it sounds like you need to cut the BF down by half I'd say..but if you insist on cycling the winny really won't show much noticable results. If you are trying to preserve muscle mass while cutting you could do it...but I just don't see it being as efficient if you ran it with a lower BF. Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide to do!

**PROTEINSHAKE** · 08-01-2006, 10:54 AM

DITTO--GOOSE--LOOKING RIDICULOUS BRO.
as for hardloser.....bro...I understand your situation about being a "hardloser". IMO...you need to really get hardcore to get where you want to be.Cardio cardio cardio...var & or winny will only help you so much.your b/f % is way to high to do either one IMO..b/f should be around 15% b4 using gear-IMO. I am not too sure about the GH levels & its effect on metabolism so I'll let someone more knowledgeable respond to that..

**MuscleHeadz** · 08-01-2006, 11:07 AM

Bro, I would definetly stay away from any juice for the time being and consider some serious dieting and cardio.

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 11:17 AM

i understand doing the cardio are there any specific cardio exercise that work better than others. i use the olyptical for a minimum of 45 minutes and at the longest 1 hour. my bosses insist that i do no more than 30 minutes. as far as cycles go lets just say deka did wonders for a younger version of me in high school. reason i want to go with thw winny is because of its effects for cutting fat. i am going on hgh when i get back from my deployment as iraq offers no safe measure for refrigeration of gh. also i am looking into using the test gel along with the winny to gain more muscle mass but i dont want to get to big yet. ultimately besides getting my levels back up to what is considered normal i would love to be able to do a show possibly in 4 years. everyone here is being very helpful and giving me great insight into what i have already researched. human intelligence far beats what is published about profiles and i value knowledge from experience far more than what i read as it is mostly theory what is taught and then you have to apply that theory. this always results in trial and error until a formula is found where you can apply theory and enhance it.

**PROTEINSHAKE** · 08-01-2006, 11:25 AM

your bosses insist that you do no more than 30 mins???? what do they have to do with anything??? at the point you are at..AT LEAST 45mins cardio a day...preferably in the AM on an empty stomach..cut your caloric intake & up the cardio(make sure your heart rate is correct for fat loss)...it not rocket science man.

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 11:27 AM

jakked while i agree unfortunately right now i have to play the game things i put out on this subject must be done in pvt as one of them may be a member and then ill be in a whole lot of shit when i get back to my unit

**PROTEINSHAKE** · 08-01-2006, 11:35 AM

bro...maybe i am missing something here about your bosses etc...
anyway....winny doesnt burn fat man...i can "help" but it will also remove water from yuor body & joints & could be painful to some people..I am in my
2nd week of winny 75mg ED & i can feel my joints hurting..again bro..at your fitness level..diet & cardio is first & foremost. any type of gear would be a distant second...

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 11:39 AM

how do i get my fitness level up even though the daily regimented physical training we go through ie running push ups sit ups etc has not improved since i got out of initial entry training. and would it be a wise idea to return to a strict low carb program ie no more than 20 30 grams of fiborous carbs a day and no starchy as they convert to sugar in the body if i am not mistaken

**Smedman101** · 08-01-2006, 11:46 AM

There is no magic pill!!! But cardio is your best friend and a good diet bro.
Anavar is great its $COSTLY$ and I do not know of a limit on taking it in a cycle time line of in 6 or 8 weeks. I took it for 12 weeks and notice only alot of strength and I looked alot more vascular.

my 2 cents
Thanks

**stitch1967** · 08-01-2006, 11:51 AM

I'm about 10 yrs older than you but have been traveling the same path. I've done a Test E only cycle at 30% BF about two years ago with out my diet being spot on...not smart, BP went thru the roof, lost most of my gains trying to loose weight after the cycle..basically it was a waste.....

last year did a Winny only cycle at 28% BF (6 wks 50mg ED oral), diet was better, had good muscle gain 5lbs, but did not drop any BF...not a bad cycle, maintained most my gains..

Just finished a Var Only cycle (7wks @50mg ED) started at 198 lb 25% BF ended at 195 22%, diet was spot on, did 30min of cardio before every workout which was mostly compound and superset, have kept all my gains and maintained my weight loss one month after PCT.

Since your only 30, I would agree with the board and say drop some BF first, IMO down to at least 20%. That way you can eat properly to gain the muscle you want and not have to squeeze in so much cardio which drains your natty test levels. (BTW Var will suppress your natty - I had periods of very low libido and energy levels) Besides you have consider your health....Var and Winny knocked the piss out of my lipid levels ....gear in general stresses your body and with a high BF% that's not good.

I've sworn off gear until I get my BF% down another 5% then I'm gonna hit a Prop/Var cycle with screaming diet. My plan is to kick this off on my 40th birthday in about 4 months..

Think about it...do the right thing...cut down first then you can concentrate on nothing but growth...

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 11:55 AM

thanks for the advice guys would you suggest i go with cytomel or tricana or something similar ? to aid in the fat loss along with the diet and cardio

**PROTEINSHAKE** · 08-01-2006, 12:02 PM

i dont think you are REALLY listening man...stitch gave you a great post with real trials & results from a similar situation to yours. I would follow HIS advice & the other advice MYSELF & others have given. ANY gear at your B/F & fitness level might be counterproductive. get a good base, then go from there man. VAR also can screw up cholesterol levels so keep that in mind.

**hardloser** · 08-01-2006, 12:06 PM

thanks i appreciate it ill keep you guy posted on the body fat. and work on hat just for now.

***Alex*** · 08-01-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by goose4

Depends what you want, Oxandrolone causes a strong strength gain by stimulating the phosphocreatine synthesis in the muscle cell without depositing liquid (water) in the joints and the muscles,but for building muscle it`s VERY WEAK.Winny will build muscle and I think this would be better for you, 50 mg/day for 6-8 weeks.

i have seen that avy somewhere else!!!!??!?!?!?! is that really you?

**PlasticFuture112** · 08-01-2006, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by *Alex*

i have seen that avy somewhere else!!!!??!?!?!?! is that really you?

I hope your not serious?

**james21** · 08-01-2006, 08:39 PM

winny for sure, var=garbage

**doublefister** · 08-02-2006, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by james21

winny for sure, var=garbage

Why do you say that?

**PlasticFuture112** · 08-02-2006, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by doublefister

Why do you say that?

Cuz he cant afford it and jealousy becomes a bitch.......tough luck

**RobbieG** · 08-02-2006, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by PlasticFuture112

Cuz he cant afford it and jealousy becomes a bitch.......tough luck

**stitch1967** · 08-02-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by PlasticFuture112

Cuz he cant afford it and jealousy becomes a bitch.......tough luck

exactly...cause he got bunk gear...

**jucinator** · 08-02-2006, 10:22 AM

Anavar at 50mgs or higher is very good for strenght gains mixed with tren Ace and some test P youll be a strong mutherf, and there right if your anavar didnt do anything its because it was bunk , plus you should always chew your pills up.

**cfiler** · 08-02-2006, 10:40 AM

Anavar is one of the best steroid compounds. The only drawback is it's price.

With winstrol , you do need to run test as a base. Winstrol is not very good for bulking, and best used in cutting cycles when body fat is below 15%.

I'd look into a Var + Tbol cycle. It should promote some lean quality mass, and help increase stamina.

***Alex*** · 08-02-2006, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by PlasticFuture112

I hope your not serious?

news pics,6`@232lbs

**PlasticFuture112** · 08-02-2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by *Alex*

news pics,6`@232lbs

Twins? Well hope there is some explanation for all of this.....Im not too fond of people imposing themselves as others. Especially ones who have proved themselves in the gym and put all the time into looking like he is...Its a crying shame!!