Guys who gain 25-30lbs per cycle...

[phreezer]

Here’s some info for guys who want to gain 20-25lbs on a cycle.


Everyone wants to know how to gain high poundages on a cycle. We’ve all got a “friend” in a gym somewhere that gained 25lbs on his last cycle and we want to do the same. We ask ourselves…What is his secret? Is the juice he’s taking that good? Is it a good diet in conjunction with the test.. is that what is responsible? Well, here’s the answer.. NO, his particular anabolic compound of choice be it Sustanon , Winstrol , Dbol , Tren , etc… isn’t so great that whoever takes one of those compounds will grow.. nor is his diet so “on” that he will gain more than us.

Here’s the truth.. and some of you won’t like it.. Some of you may even get pissed off.. The reason these guys grow so much on their cycles is because they shouldn’t even be using steroids to begin with… And that’s the truth… That may sound a bit confusing.. yes? Well allow me to elaborate…

You take a 20 yr old male. He has been lifting on and off for six months or so… He’s about 6 foot tall maybe a little shorter.. 5’10” or so.. He weighs about 165lbs.. He’s got a little bit of definition.. nothing big.. when his shirt is off people can tell he’s been working out.. He decides one day that he wants to take steroids, He sees the really big guys in the gym and he wants to be like them right now.. he doesn’t want to wait any longer.. in his mind six months has been long enough.. So he gets on the internet.. he finds a message board similar to this one.. he reads a little .. finds a hook up.. and decides to run 250mg of test and 300mg of deca for two months and ends up weighing around 185 or 190.. All of his friends are amazed.. he’s amazed He’s put on some size.. he looks like a weight lifter.. he doesn’t look like someone who could compete.. but he looks like he’s finally arrived on the Body building scene… His closest friends are so impressed that they want to run the exact same cycle .. He tells them exactly what he did.. how he ate..etc… Now, a few months go by.. all of a sudden the kid is back to around 165 maybe 170.. He thinks.. “Oh man.. I’ve got to get back on cycle.. I need those drugs to be big.. if I don’t.. I just can’t grow… Steroids require that I stay on all the time to maintain the kind of size that I want”… I guess that’s what he has to do; huh; stay on all the time?

Now, here’s the reason he gained 25lbs on his cycle.. He was so far from his genetic potential that once the anabolic compounds were introduced into his system he grew like a weed.. His body didn’t need to struggle to put on that mass, because it was quite capable of adding that much mass naturally.. The steroids just sped it up..

it is for lack of a better or more accurate word.. a short cut to get to where he could have gotten natural anyway. His inevitable weight loss after coming off his "super" cycle wasn’t from the lack of steroids.. it was from a lack of a proper foundation.. a Lack of proper training skills, and a lack of muscular maturation…

Here’s the deal.. guys who need steroids aren’t the guys who are growing 25+lbs per cycle.. they are gaining 10lbs and hopefully keeping 5-8.. They are struggling to even do that.. I’ll tell you from personal experience.. I am 30 yrs old 6’2” .. I am 284lbs currently.. I am 17% BF (I’m a powerlifter/strongman.. so I keep a little extra fat on me)…If I wanted to keep the same body fat % I have now and weigh 300lbs.. I would have to run a very long cycle..or in all honesty it will take me two full cycles to get to 3 bills..

An average cycle for me is about 750mg Test, 450mg Deca, 300mg EQ and Some Dbol in the front and at the end… Those are some fairly heavy dosages...Why don’t I gain 25lbs per cycle?

Because No matter how much gear I take.. no matter how much I eat.. my body is so far beyond it’s genetic potential that I simply can’t add that kind of radical mass anymore..

My body does a fairly good job of maintaining mass when I’m not on cycle.. but I do drop weight regardless.. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it’s size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle.. it’s not a shock to my body to carry it around.. And I built a solid mass foundation naturally years ago.. I reached my genetic potential before I started using juice.. Lifting was a habbit and a lifestyle for me because I played football from Junior high through College.

I’ve worked out in gyms all over the country.. and I have been doing so for the better part of a decade.. and I'll tell you, I have seen a lot of little guys blow up for a couple of months from a cycle only to deflate a couple of months later..It's the truth.. Muscle Maturation plays a huge key in keeping mass... that and proper training skills.. (and no hitting bench 3 days a week and squating once every few months doesn't count)

So in truth, when you hear about some guy who gained 25-30lbs off of a cycle.. Please keep in mind that he is probably some impatient tiny punk that could have easily gained the same amount of muscle had he just been a little more patient.. If he had just been focused on learning how to train.. focused on how to eat…

This is a lifestyle.. there are no short cuts if you want to be the real deal.... There will never be a fly by nighter even win the smallest amateur comp in booney fu*king Iowa if he hasn't been serious for years...

It's important that you guys learn that Juice may seem like the best short cut in the beginning... but whenever you add that much mass that quickly from gear.. Your body isn’t goint to be ready for it.. it will literally fight you to keep it.. the sudden size and strength will stress the ligaments, tendons, bones and central nervous system and Your body will do everything that it can to shed those rapid muscle gains.. Decent muscle mass is only kept through time and hard work (cough.. cough.. it's a cliche.. but it's still true).. and it's important that your gains aren't so fast that the body can't adjust healthfuly to it’s new weight gain..

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else..(and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass..and you’re stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you’re a good size.. (that’s when everyone who is in the room with you knows you’re a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn’t know that you lift… you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we’ll talk about steroids.. until then… Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you’ll be so much better off in the end…

[wolfyEVH]

this depends on the height and weight of certain individuals........my roomate is 6'4" and 300 lbs........he is going to gain more muscle than me (5'10" 222 lbs) if we do identical cycles........genetics and diet are critical as well

[swoll4589]

long post but very good point

[phreezer]

this depends on the height and weight of certain individuals........my roomate is 6'4" and 300 lbs........he is going to gain more muscle than me (5'10" 222 lbs) if we do identical cycles........genetics and diet are critical as well

obviously you missed the point...

[boistheman]

interesting, thanks for the post

[wolfyEVH]

obviously you missed the point...

yeah....obviously i did

[EatRite]

TOTALLY AGREE... by the end of my cycle i'll be at about 10 pounds of keepable gains... i was wondering why my gains were so small until i read this.....


GREAT POST!

[k@m NYC]

good post..remind me of some 18yr old kid at the gym..

[needle]

Very good point , sorry to say that I fall into that bracket somewhat! Ive been lifting since I was 13 because of football etc.. but extremely hard for the past year and 7 months. I understand your point very well and ya I am a 20 year old that used to way 169 pounds and now im currently 209 after just starting my 3rd cycle!
I see alot of my friends that only are in the gym "while on cycle", its a shame but there just looking for a quick fix!!!
Very good post !!!

[esone]

very true. i thought that i was stuck a very long time ago and i put on like 15 or 18 lbs since then naturally by change of diet and work out.

[playboii]

wow...that was one of the best posts I've ever seen...and very true..

[***xxx***]

very very true

[znak]

Super post.

Any way we can make this compulsory reading for newbies?

Everyone want to get big fast, but the reality is that if you are adding a pound every month, year in and year out, you are doing well.

At one pound a month, a 160 pound 18 year old will be a 220 pound 23 year old. When he is 25 and weighs about 240 that is the time that juice can help add ten pounds.

[TheMindOfRoss]

TOTALLY AGREE... by the end of my cycle i'll be at about 10 pounds of keepable gains... i was wondering why my gains were so small until i read this.....


GREAT POST!

So why not just use MILDER anabolics for a NET gain of 10lbs?

[BigPancho]

And here we go again.......

BigPancho

[j martini]

Someone at an advanced level is not going to gain 10 pound a of muscle a cycle with Var and primo etc.

If i was to run a cycle like that i would not gain a thing and probably slowly regress.

Ok for a newbie or a woman but not for an advanced bodybuilder.

[znak]

So why not just use MILDER anabolics for a NET gain of 10lbs?

You didn't get the point. The whole point of this very excellent post is that steroid use is of questionable value when you are around homeostasis for your “natural” body weight.

I will use me for an example. Before I started working out with the express aim of getting bigger, my body weight was 170 pounds with about 18-20% body fat. This was my weight for years. After five years of busting my hump at the gym four days a week, eating absolutely cleanly, my body reached a second level (plateau) of homeostasis, 200 pounds and 9% body fat. That is pretty respectable- a gain of 46 pounds of muscle mass. However, at this new level, gaining mass became increasing difficult. My natural testosterone levels , bone size, age and genetics determined that I was to the edge of my natural envelope.

To gain more mass, I added testosterone . However, since my body had be already been pushed to the edge of its natural envelope, the gains I got were well in keeping with phreezer’s post, up to 10 pounds. I started with very light cycles (200 mg test/200 mg deca ), which gave small gains, but even with increased dosage as my body grows further and further from its natural maximum weight, the gains are less per cycle and require much stricter attention to diet and rest than earlier gains, especially natural gains. Logically, it is harder to go from 220 to 245, than it is from 170 to 195. There is a genetic reason that there just aren't that many people weighing 245 with 9% bf walking around.

Point is that if you have not maxed out your natural ability and acquired all the things necessary to do so- work-out, diet, rest and life-style, your gains from juice will be fleeting since you are not set up to support them.

[Juddman]

Beauty post..good point

[BIGPAPAPUMP77]

Good Post.....

[hulkzer]

good post bro
zer_

[RA]

So why not just use MILDER anabolics for a NET gain of 10lbs?

Read it again. He was talking about you.

[smegs]

great post phreez, and it's true, i have a few buddies that are still young and their test levels are peaking, yet they choose the to take the 'short cut' and induce gear in their bodies.
and then after pct....bu bye gains!

[jbol]

Great post phreezer

[darkevil]

Intersting

I am 40years young weigh in at 90kg with 9% bodyfat and have always been a easy gainer.
Tried roids and got big...mostly water retention.
I have gained really nothing while on roids and feel that i achieved nothing more than i could while not on.
Could i be one of those genetic freeks?

[Sta11ion]

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else..(and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

My comment on this, I believe that its wrong to critize and say a number this high(80%) or generalize and discrimanate people. You put them in this status of a poser or what ever you would call it. I understand what message you are putting threw, I myself am slightly under 5"10 and weigh in around 212 body fat around %13, training straight for over 10 years. BUt because my status of weight does not compare to yours and I dont compete I feel that you put me in this generalization of this poser image.

[Sta11ion]

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

Also on this comment just because I am a hobbyist on this sport I might not take it to the extreme like some individuals on this board. But that does not make me or others less of a man because one thing in there lives they have not put 100% in fitness makes them give up in everything else in there life. Some people just dont have that drive like you would or have time(family, a job, depression etc).

[*Narkissos*]

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else..(and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

Agreed on every point...Highlighted a couple that, though not your main argument, are an argument i put foward to some of the Bros here who've never competed...or who lift and use gear recreationally.

[Sta11ion]

In the end every one who is using gear is doing a illegal substance so just because you compete you dont have the right to use gear? I use to compete in professional mua tai, won a few titles. I took gear to give me a little bit of a edge in strengh and be a little more aggresive. I know what I did is illegal in the sport but for me to get a little further I would do anything to get that edge. So as a recreational bodybuilder I dont have the right to achieve personal goals as well to give me that edge or is that reserved only for the pros. I am not saying that everyone should take gear to get that edge but I believe after training for a good 4 years and after the age of 25 I believe they have the right to at least try it. Or is it only reserved for pros? If so they started somewhere to use gear.

Agreed on every point...Highlighted a couple that, though not your main argument, are an argument i put foward to some of the Bros here who've never competed...or who lift and use gear recreationally.

[papa pain]

good thread im 29 now started young at 18 ,didnt know any better.
Thinking back the people who sold me it at that age should of told me better.
Wish i could start again,good advice.

[taiboxa]

hey i use gear recreationally... but i lift and diet religiously does it balance out?

[Sta11ion]

No your not entitled to use gear, get a pro card then come back.

hey i use gear recreationally... but i lift and diet religiously does it balance out?

[Mr. Punisher]

I agee wiht this! I been lifting for 10 years on and off and consistent for the last 4 years! I started at 132lbs 5'10 and u can just imagine the bf% LOL
and I was 21 y/o Naturally i went as high as 180lbs! I did my first cycle at 31 and went from 180 to 205 and droped down to 200! the only reason I think I was able to maintain my recreational mass i due to the fact that I had probably reached my genetic potential! A good faundation is alway the best start for a good cycle! I see a lot of post of new guy trying to cycle within their first or second year of trainning!

[bluestrm]

I agree with the original post, but as far as growing like a weed...someone with superior genetics will gain like crazy with super low doses. And they will grow, a lot, with way more than one cycle.
Now as far as gianing weight goes, anyone can do it. There are plenty of people who like the numbers game. But the quality of muscle or amount of muscle built on that cycle is pathetic in comparrison to the fat they gained.
I say keep all cycels lean. That way you don't balloon up, and look like you been hitting the buffett everyday instead of the gym. Then need to diet down and lose 15 of the 25lbs gained to see some muscle on your body!

[tylerdurden]

hav to agree with u completely,im 22 now,been juicin for almost 3years,was 155lbs when started training,now 249lbs 8% bf,5'10.granted i did make huge gains at the start when i began usin gear but my 3years of learning better training methods suitable to my body and perfecting my nutrition have been more valuable then any amount of steroids

[dazbo]

this is something where I beleive I have had a problem. I did my first cycle after being stuck at the same weight for the past couple of years pretty much. I had correct diet knowledge and ALWAYS varied my training and research and reading was a daily thing in this area. I was stuck at around 190lbs @ 5'10" with around 12%BF. I realised I needed to drop body fat to get to where I wanted (good 6 pack and vascularity etc) but didnt want to work on getting that until I got to a weight I wanted. Anyway, when I did bulking periods by increasing my cals and macros etc I would gain a little weight. then I would try to cut down.. All this seemed to do was drop me back down to my normal weight and BF% and this was my knightmare circle for around 2 yrs.

Anyway, early this year, at 23 I just decided to try AAS. My first cycle was sus250/wk and deca200/wk with Dbol start and Test prop finish. I gained a little while on but my start weight was 190lbs and my end weight was 190lbs!!! So, I gained nothing!! This cycle did nothing for me, even in the strength area.

I I am now into my second week of my 2nd cycle and when I weighed myself after 1 week (With a lean bulking/cutting diet of 3500cals, 350+prot, 250-300g carbs, 100gs+ good fats) and my gains was just over 2lbs! I know this aint much but Im happy because I know not much is water. I hope to gain at least 10lbs off this cycle and keep most of it but I think my body was already at its max level so thats why Im finding it hard to go higher - for reasons you explained.

You have basically just backed up what I already thought - so thanks!!

darren

[Doc.Sust]

So why not just use MILDER anabolics for a NET gain of 10lbs?

[Mr. Punisher]

why ban him? I don't totally agree with all of his discussions but we need to be open minded! not every one is a competitive BB and some of us just do it for the love of it! and we can learn a lot from eahc other! don't be judgemental and maybe you will get some benefit from his knowledge! the only thing we can steal from this board is knowledge and is free!

[phreezer]

No your not entitled to use gear, get a pro card then come back.

you must have some kind of chip on your shoulder.. you read way more into this than was ever intended... 80% was an arbitrary number.. although I feel it's probably about right... wrt to your size you don't come close to fitting into the categories I described.. If you are 5'10-6' and weigh 175lbs you are too small if you are 5'10 and weigh 210+ you are probably at your genetic threshold..

Again you took offense when none was intended and you seem to have taken this personaly for some reason..

[Doc.Sust]

why ban him? I don't totally agree with all of his discussions but we need to be open minded! not every one is a competitive BB and some of us just do it for the love of it! and we can learn a lot from eahc other! don't be judgemental and maybe you will get some benefit from his knowledge! the only thing we can steal from this board is knowledge and is free!

if you have been on here the last 2 days and see how he conducted himself, you would understand.i think many of us don't agree with the comments of ROSS.yes i am open minded, but what he preaches just isn't right, he claims to have studies to back what he says, and so far from what i have seen , he has been proved wrong so far and just won't let this issue go! it is annoying

[Biglou54]

Great Post!!!!! Very Well Said