cycle proposal..pref : pinnacle or goose

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 01:22 PM

ok...

i plan to run test prop,tren , var, and eq, my body fat isnt yet but almost below 10 percent (12 percent) and i didnt want to take masteron till i get it below that. any other compound you would reccomend pertaining to dry gains or do i have it covered?

**Swifto** · 02-03-2006, 01:32 PM

Lean gains depends on diet alot. Although various AS help, the key lies in diet. Have a clean diet, high in clean calories. Low sodium intake, drinking plenty of water. An AI needs be run, to cut out all estrogen related sides, including bloat.

How long you thinking of doing this cycle for? Whats yor cycle experience?

Test Prop/Var/EQ/Masteron /Tbol/Primo/Tren , just to name a few.

**Pinnacle** · 02-03-2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

. An AI needs be run, to cut out all estrogen related sides, including bloat.

Test Prop/Var/EQ/Masteron/Tbol/Primo/Tren, just to name a few.

I disagree with that.Most of those drugs don't aromatize at all,so I see no need in running AI's during a cycle like of prop/tren /var/EQ.

Good combo you posted "G Insulin ",but I'd sub winny for the VAR personally.And you can always run the masteron the last 4 weeks of the cycle when your BF is low enough to see it's effects.Winny/masteron at cycles end is awesome bro

~Pinnacle~

**Georgie** · 02-03-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

I disagree with that.Most of those drugs don't aromatize at all,so I see no need in running AI's during a cycle like of prop/tren /var/EQ.

Good combo you posted "G Insulin ",but I'd sub winny for the VAR personally.And you can always run the masteron the last 4 weeks of the cycle when your BF is low enough to see it's effects.Winny/masteron at cycles end is awesome bro

~Pinnacle~

I respectfully disagree about not using an AI and test prop "not aromatize at all". I understand you said "most" of the compounds do not aromatize. Prop obviously not being part of the "most". However, in my personal experience test prop gives me the worst estrogen related side effects out of any of the esters. I never have gyno related problems or much bloating with test e or c, but prop always gets me. I dont buy into the theroy that because the half life of prop is so short, it does not allow for large amounts of estrogen to build up in your body. You are injecting prop ED or EOD so in my opinion and my personal experiences, large amounts of estrogen can build up in your body. In fact because prop converts to estorgen so quickly is the reason why I think I have more severe estrogen related sides with prop than the other esters. In my humble opinion an AI should always be run with testosterone , no matter which ester is being used.

**Pinnacle** · 02-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Georgie

However, in my personal experience test prop gives me the worst estrogen related side effects out of any of the esters. I never have gyno related problems or much bloating with test e or c, but prop always gets me. .

Everyone is different.You might bloat on Prop and 30 other guys might stay dry as a bone.So for you,an AI would be a good choice based on your experince.But to say it mandatory that it should be used is another story all together.

Do you have some scientific evidence to show that because of the propionate ester,estrogen builds extremely quick?If so,could you post it for all to see?

THX

~Pinnacle~

**taiboxa** · 02-03-2006, 02:21 PM

i gain 12or so lbs of water on testE/C and 5lbs of water on Prop.. just a ref for ya

**Georgie** · 02-03-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Everyone is different.You might bloat on Prop and 30 other guys might stay dry as a bone.So for you,an AI would be a good choice based on your experince.But to say it mandatory that it should be used is another story all together.

Do you have some scientific evidence to show that because of the propionate ester,estrogen builds extremely quick?If so,could you post it for all to see?

THX

~Pinnacle~

You are correct, eveyone is different. And no i do not have any scientific studies. Like I said, i was speaking from personal expereinces. But this statment is from the steroid profile section stating that prop has a high converstaion rate into estrogen. " Despite the high conversion rate of propionate into estrogen gynecomastia is less common than with other testosterones". It states that although, the converstion rate is high, side effects are less common. But from my experiences, that is untrue. For me, that high converstion rate gives me problems.

**vitor** · 02-03-2006, 02:29 PM

I agree that an AI should always be used with any kind of testosterone . The reasen why many people get gyno long after they have come of a cycle is because of estrogen-buildup!

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 02:46 PM

i have only 4 cycles under my belt. i've used all compounds except primo and masteron ...favorite by far is tren . i will never have a cycle without tren in it. i never use long esters of test because i hate all that extra water, i like the rock solid look.... im only (220 12 percent body fat). im currently doing a lot of cardio (every morning except legs for 45 minutes as pinnacle suggested). i was looking into t bol to throw in this cycle btw. i was looking at trying to take it 20 weeks. hears what i drew up during work....

week 1-20 125 mg ED/ test prop
week 1-15 120 mg ED/ tren acetate
week 1-17 EQ 600 mg/ week ... shot EOD
week 14-20 var 80 mg per day

any suggestions are appreciated...

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 02:46 PM

if u cant tell im very anal about blood stability...

**Swifto** · 02-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

I disagree with that.Most of those drugs don't aromatize at all,so I see no need in running AI's during a cycle like of prop/tren /var/EQ.

Good combo you posted "G Insulin ",but I'd sub winny for the VAR personally.And you can always run the masteron the last 4 weeks of the cycle when your BF is low enough to see it's effects.Winny/masteron at cycles end is awesome bro

~Pinnacle~

Most of the drugs, yes. But not all. This is why an AI or SERM should be run when compounds that aromotase are used when cycling.

**Pinnacle** · 02-03-2006, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Got Insulin?

week 1-20 125 mg ED/ test prop
week 1-15 120 mg ED/ tren acetate
week 1-17 EQ 600 mg/ week ... shot EOD
week 14-20 var 80 mg per day

any suggestions are appreciated...

Cycle looks good to me.A little long for my taste,but to each is own

~Pinnacle~

**Pinnacle** · 02-03-2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Most of the drugs, yes. But not all. This is why an AI or SERM should be run when compounds that aromotase are used when cycling.

It's your opinion and your entitled to it.

~Pinnacle~

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 03:21 PM

yah i was thinking the length was a bit long, cause i remember how i felt at 15 weeks of ED injections. any suggestions or commentary as always is appreciated...

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 03:22 PM

you guys think i took the EQ out too long?

**scotttiger54** · 02-03-2006, 03:22 PM

proposed cycle looks great in my opinion. i for one love longer cycles such as yourself.

**taiboxa** · 02-03-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by scotttiger54

proposed cycle looks great in my opinion. i for one love longer cycles such as yourself.

LONG CYCLES RULE!!!

WOOOOOO!

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 03:35 PM

i love mixing compounds so my cycles are always normally no less then 18 weeks

**Got Insulin?** · 02-03-2006, 03:36 PM

concerning EQ ... i know its different but it's said the average time before u start seeing the effects are around week 7 to 8. when do u think it begins to plateau?

**Got Insulin?** · 02-04-2006, 06:03 PM

ugh i want to chang it up and make it mass at the first 10 weeks and cut the last 10 weeks..im gonna keep working with it lets see

Test E - 1000 mgs/week divided into ED injections for 10 weeks
Deca - 600 mg/week divided into 3 times a week for 10 weeks
EQ- 600 mg/week for for 17 weeks
Anadrol - 100 mg/week for 1st 4 weeks
Suspension-200 mg/ed first 3 weeks

hows that for the first 10 weeks

**tranzit** · 02-04-2006, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Got Insulin?

i have only 4 cycles under my belt. i've used all compounds except primo and masteron ...favorite by far is tren . i will never have a cycle without tren in it. i never use long esters of test because i hate all that extra water, i like the rock solid look.... im only (220 12 percent body fat). im currently doing a lot of cardio (every morning except legs for 45 minutes as pinnacle suggested). i was looking into t bol to throw in this cycle btw. i was looking at trying to take it 20 weeks. hears what i drew up during work....

week 1-20 125 mg ED/ test propOuch but you will get good results shooting every day with prop i would get ahold of some b12 and diliute it abait. 6-8 weeks i can handle but 20 id go insane ed...
week 1-15 120 mg ED/ tren acetate i would NEVER run this much tren for this long bro.. its just dangerous.. i never go past 12.. and i rarely go to 12.
week 1-17 EQ 600 mg/ week ... shot EOD Looks good to m man.. i would have done it to 15 but thats just me..
week 14-20 var 80 mg per dayI am not a var far.. i think its expensive and your results can be gotten for alot less. Id run winny 12-18 instead. @50 ed

any suggestions are appreciated...

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