5th cycle ??

[mrthai]

Hi, Im about to start my 5th cycle,
Here is my last 4 cycles and my current stats:


From:
Test p 500mg w/10weeks + dbol 50mg/d/6week
Primo 1000mg 12weeks
Test p 500mg/w + mast 500mg/w + primo 800mg/w 12week
Test p 500mg/w Tren A 600mg/w 10weeks

(have used aromasin 12.5mg /day for most of these cycles)
Run pct after cycles with Nolva and clomid, 40/40/20/20 100/100/50/50 and continue use aromasin into pct.

Had some gyno after my 1 cycle, but had surgery, and runned successfully cycles after that.

Im 28(29 this month) 106kg around 16-17% body fat. 193cm

Had surgery 2 times the last 5 months so just back in training.(nose operation, and hemorrhoidectomy) so have not been training so much, had a long and painfull recovery on the surgeries, specially the last one mentioned..

Just got back to my normal training again 4 weeks ago and feels like my body is ready for some muscle juice.

Have tren e, deca, dbol, winstrol(injectable) and test e on hand.
Also have aromasin and letro, nolva and clomid.

Im going for a bulk cycle, want to gain strenght and volume.

Im currently stuck, and have a hard time to select what to use for my cycles. if someone have some great ideas please help me:

Aromasin 25mg/day 1 week before starting and 25mg/day until im in my pct.
Nolvadex 10mg/every day while on dbol
1-4 Dbol 30mg-40mg day.
1-14 Deca 500mg/w
1-16 Test E 500mg/w

OR

Aromasin 25mg/day 1 week before starting and 25mg/day until im in my pct.
Nolvadex 10mg/every day while on dbol
1-4 Dbol 30mg-40mg day.
1-11 Tren E 500mg/w
1-12 Test E 400mg/w

maybee put in winstrol in last 4 weeks 50mg/daily.

For both cycles pct will start 2 weeks after my last test e shot.

Pct will be:
Nolvadex 40 / 40 / 20 / 20
Aromasin 25 / 25 / 12.5 / 12.5
Clomid: 100 / 100 / 50 / 50

[GearHeaded]

Aromasin 25mg/day 1 week before starting and 25mg/day until im in my pct.

where did you get the idea of running an AI 'before' you even start your cycle ? especially for a bulk when you want your estrogen levels to go up in conjunction with elevated androgen levels. . your not only hindering gains, but causing possible un-needed negative side effects .
going into pct with low levels of estrogen is a good idea.. going into your bulk cycle with low estrogen is not (different story if this was a contest prep).

also, kicking off this cycle with only 4 weeks of Dbol is not necessary and a bit of a waste. having said that I'm a big fan of Dbol. either run it for the majority of this cycle, or if you only want to to a short blast then I recommend it at that tail end of cycle (though this recommendation is manly for guys that blast in cruise, as Dbol is highly estrogenic and will hinder/delay pct a bit)

I like your idea of running Nolva at low dose daily. you may be able to just get by with only Nolva and scratch the AI until the tail end of your cycle.

in regards to Tren.
- its more suitable for guys that blast and cruise or TRT, as recovery is difficult (Deca is as well)
- for a bulk your going to want to run your Test higher then your Tren dosage (if its a cut, then low test high tren works better) OR like I said run the Dbol the majority of the cycle (the idea here is that Tren is going to require some estrogen in order to help you bulk up,, tren is too dry by itself, so your going to need to get the estgeon from either your Dbol or high dose test).
- I'm not a fan of running Tren for long durations like you have here 11 weeks. Tren works best as a fast acting hard hitting compound. its meant to get in and get out quick.
note on that: Tren has a strong affinity for the AR, which is a good thing. but whats bad is that it stays bound to the same receptor for for too long (it doesn't have a great ability to move on from receptor to receptor). because of this shorter blasts are more effective (as well as other reasons).

I like your idea of running Winstrol at the end of the cycle.. I recommend this a lot. perhaps for reasons your not aware of or even had idea of when thinking about doing this yourself ,, but Winstrol at the tail end of our cycle will help drive Cortisol levels down at the end of the cycle going into PCT. this will help with more growth potential (as cortisol is very catabolic hormone .. and the last thing you want is to be in a highly catabolic state going into pct)


see some of my thoughts in this thread for more info on winstrol at the end of a cycle
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html

see some of my thoughts in this thread as to why you need estrogen for a bulk, especially with tren , and why you may want to not over do your AI usage (also some info on why Nolva may be a better option for you then an AI)
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...c-hormone.html

[mrthai]

Ok, first off all, thanks for taking your time to give me such a great answare with good information.
After reading trough your post(and links) I think i will go for the test-deca-dbol-win cycle.
I will 100% sure use winstrol at the end of this cycle, again thanks for good information.
Was thinking starting the aromsin use before the cycle to have stable levels and be as safe as possible before starting the dbol, but i see now that it was a stupid idea....
I have battled gyno in the past so thats why i want to use a AI, but maybee i just get by with the nolva.
Is it so horrible to use a AI and Nolva together? Iknow it take down some of my gains but, just want to be on the "safe" side, specially when on dbol.


What you think about this ? are the dosage ok?

1-8 Nolvadex 10mg/day
maybee??? 8-22: Aromasin 12.5-25/mg day
1-8 Dbol 30-40mg/day?
1-16 Test E 500mg/w
1-14 Deca 500mg/w
14-18 winstrol 50/mg day (injectable)

And start pct week 19, 4 weeks after my last deca shot?

With Clomid 100/100/50/50, Nolva 40/40/20/20 and aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5 ?

[GearHeaded]

hey Mrthai,
I like how when deciding to implement the winstrol at the end of your cycle you decided to put it all the way up until PCT.. good thinking knowing its a short acting compound that will clear quickly. better to do that then have a two week 'dead time' from the end of your cycle to PCT.

If your gyno prone then yeah you have to do what you have to do, and if that means running an AI plus Nolvadex to keep gyno at bay then thats fine. more gains can be realized with elevated estrogen in this type of cycle, but you don't want gyno either.
you could just run Nolva 20mg per day from the start. and keep your AI on hand and see how it goes. the Nolva will block estrogen in the breast tissue receptor sites, but still allow blood levels of E to elevate and provide the anabolic benefits .

but really, for guys that are super estrogen sensitive or gyno prone, then completely different cycle design may be necessary.
so instead of test, deca, dbol.. you may be looking at low dose test, deca, Superdrol, masteron. bulk up while keeping E down by not running estrogenic compounds in the first place.
just depends on how e sensitive you think you are.. I'm sure you'll do fine with the cycle you planned with the Nolva in the mix daily

my only other thought is if recovering optimal natural test production after this cycle is over is of top priority to you , then you may be better designing a very similar cycle but with shorter esters and doing it for a shorter time frame. also adding in HCG, at least at the tail end.

[mrthai]

Ok, again thanks for a good and detailed answare.
I had a mastectomy after my 1 cycle with dbol and test, but i didnt use any protection on that cycle.
I have runned 3 cycles after this with no problems, but used 12,5mg aromasin daily.
Hmm... Just tierd of the pinning all the time, so tought i should try go for the long acting esters for once... hehe.
But anyway, i think i go for what i mentioned above, and try to start it off with nolva only at 20mg as you mention, and after finishing the dbol then go over to aromasin.
Have letro on hand incase anything happens, and the dbol dosage i will try split out during the day, will start at 30mg.
Again thanks for good answare and your time.