Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 73
Like Tree60Likes

Thread: Bulking cycle advice?(test e/deca/tren/slin?)

  1. #1
    Huher is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33

    Unhappy Bulking cycle advice?(test e/deca/tren/slin?)

    Hey guys,

    I've just finished my cycle 4-5 weeks ago. It contained 750mgs test e for 20 weeks, 500mgs deca for 1-10, 400mgs tren e for 6-16 and 300mgs injectable dbol for 16-20.
    I'm cruising since than on 200mgs cyp for 10 weeks, I still have 5 weeks to go.

    I'm planning on my next cycle, which will be a bulking one. I'm gonna compete in 2020 fall, and I'd like to put on as much muscle as I can.
    The base would be 750mgs of test e for 20 weeks.

    My first idea is adding 750mgs of deca for 20 weeks, 2nd idea is adding 500mgs of deca for 20 weeks and 400mgs tri tren for 12 weeks, and the 3rd is adding 2x4weeks of insulin max 8-10 iu pwo 5x a week to any of the cycles above (without gh).

    How would you do it? I've never been so confused what to do, any help is appreciated! You can change the whole cycle, I'm curious about how would you do this.

    P.s.: it would be my 8th cycle, I'm around 230lbs with 13-4% bf, 6 feet 1 and want to get to somewhere near 270 until my comp prep starts.

    Have a nice day!

  2. #2
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Huher View Post
    Hey guys,

    I've just finished my cycle 4-5 weeks ago. It contained 750mgs test e for 20 weeks, 500mgs deca for 1-10, 400mgs tren e for 6-16 and 300mgs injectable dbol for 16-20.
    I'm cruising since than on 200mgs cyp for 10 weeks, I still have 5 weeks to go.

    I'm planning on my next cycle, which will be a bulking one. I'm gonna compete in 2020 fall, and I'd like to put on as much muscle as I can.
    The base would be 750mgs of test e for 20 weeks.

    My first idea is adding 750mgs of deca for 20 weeks, 2nd idea is adding 500mgs of deca for 20 weeks and 400mgs tri tren for 12 weeks, and the 3rd is adding 2x4weeks of insulin max 8-10 iu pwo 5x a week to any of the cycles above (without gh).

    How would you do it? I've never been so confused what to do, any help is appreciated! You can change the whole cycle, I'm curious about how would you do this.

    P.s.: it would be my 8th cycle, I'm around 230lbs with 13-4% bf, 6 feet 1 and want to get to somewhere near 270 until my comp prep starts.

    Have a nice day!
    Hey personally to get to 270 i would just use
    1200 mg test e or c 1-10 weeks
    1200 mg sustanon 10-20 weeks
    800 eq 1-10 weeks
    750 deca 10-20 weeks
    anadrol 50 mg 1-4 weeks
    dbol 16-20 weeks taper up from 25 to 75 mg (stop where the sides are too much and use that for rest of the weeks)

    if you use insulin without gh you will just get fat if you cant afford hgh use cjc 1295 with ghrp 6 it mimics hgh

    ghrp 6 100 mcg 3 ×ed 1 shot when you wake up ,2 shot after workout 3 shot before bed
    cjc 1295 without dac use same as above

    insulin humolog 5 iu on lacking bodypart days only 3 peaks a week right after workout

  3. #3
    Huher is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    Hey personally to get to 270 i would just use
    1200 mg test e or c 1-10 weeks
    1200 mg sustanon 10-20 weeks
    800 eq 1-10 weeks
    750 deca 10-20 weeks
    anadrol 50 mg 1-4 weeks
    dbol 16-20 weeks taper up from 25 to 75 mg (stop where the sides are too much and use that for rest of the weeks)

    if you use insulin without gh you will just get fat if you cant afford hgh use cjc 1295 with ghrp 6 it mimics hgh

    ghrp 6 100 mcg 3 ×ed 1 shot when you wake up ,2 shot after workout 3 shot before bed
    cjc 1295 without dac use same as above

    insulin humolog 5 iu on lacking bodypart days only 3 peaks a week right after workout
    Hey,

    Thank you for your advice mate. My body reacts very well to steroids , so I don't think I would have to nearly double up my test dosages, btw it seems an exciting future cycle.
    My last cycle gave me 30lbs and I've kept around 25.
    I could afford hgh, but I don't want to shoot sparrows with a cannon
    Family_guy likes this.

  4. #4
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    15,020
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    Hey personally to get to 270 i would just use
    1200 mg test e or c 1-10 weeks
    1200 mg sustanon 10-20 weeks
    800 eq 1-10 weeks
    750 deca 10-20 weeks
    anadrol 50 mg 1-4 weeks
    dbol 16-20 weeks taper up from 25 to 75 mg (stop where the sides are too much and use that for rest of the weeks)

    if you use insulin without gh you will just get fat if you cant afford hgh use cjc 1295 with ghrp 6 it mimics hgh

    ghrp 6 100 mcg 3 ×ed 1 shot when you wake up ,2 shot after workout 3 shot before bed
    cjc 1295 without dac use same as above

    insulin humolog 5 iu on lacking bodypart days only 3 peaks a week right after workout
    Dont agree on the insulin part.
    Gh is not necessary to keep from getting fat.
    Aside from being highly individual specific, diet will make the difference.

  5. #5
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Huher View Post
    Hey,

    Thank you for your advice mate. My body reacts very well to steroids , so I don't think I would have to nearly double up my test dosages, btw it seems an exciting future cycle.
    My last cycle gave me 30lbs and I've kept around 25.
    I could afford hgh, but I don't want to shoot sparrows with a cannon
    That 750 was needed to go from 200 to 230 . the more you go away from what your natural potential is the more the aas you are going to need to gain same amount of muscle .
    and if you want to get from 230 to 270 with atleast 30 lbs of lean muscle you can not do that with aas only as
    growth hormone cause muscle cell proliferation(Hyperplasia). Where as Anabolic Steroids cause the existing muscle to fill with stores and become bigger. (Hypertrophy).
    hgh will help with ligaments and joints too as gaining 30 lbs of muscle will require heavy lifting .and you can easily injure yourself as aas doesnot heal or make your joint /ligaments stronger .
    Last edited by ksingh93; 01-08-2019 at 05:46 AM.

  6. #6
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Dont agree on the insulin part.
    Gh is not necessary to keep from getting fat.
    Aside from being highly individual specific, diet will make the difference.
    100 %agreed .but as he doesn't know how much sugar he ll need for 5 iu of insulin .he can end up chugging 50 g of sugary carbs .that ll make him fat unless he is ecto. he can play it safe with gh take 10 g carbs per iu of insulin and minimize the fat gainig,.no risk of hypoglycemia and thats not the only reason gh will be used during his cycle .
    Last edited by ksingh93; 01-08-2019 at 05:47 AM.
    Obs likes this.

  7. #7
    Huher is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    what was your last cycle dosage for test ?
    and if you want to get from 230 to 270 with atleast 30 lbs of lean muscle you can not do that with aas only as
    growth hormone cause muscle cell proliferation(Hyperplasia). Where as Anabolic Steroids cause the existing muscle to fill with stores and become bigger. (Hypertrophy).
    hgh will help with ligaments and joints too as gaining 30 lbs of muscle will require heavy lifting .and you can easily injure yourself as aas doesnot heal or make your joint /ligaments stronger .
    I've just finished my cycle 4-5 weeks ago. It contained 750mgs test e for 20 weeks, 500mgs deca for 1-10, 400mgs tren e for 6-16 and 300mgs injectable dbol for 16-20.
    I'm cruising since than on 200mgs cyp for 10 weeks, I still have 5 weeks to go.

    I have nearly 1 and a half year to get to 270, that's at least 2 long bulking cycles, so I thought I do not need to add hgh, just when my comp prep starts. I have huge goals in bodybuilding, so I don't want to waste anything before it's a must.

    I think I won't use slin in this cycle, because it'll be a bigger help when I want to bulk from idk 250-260.

    My best opinion now is: 1-20 750 test e, 1-20 750 deca, 3-15 600 tritren with 1 nolva ed, 1 arimidex eod. Any thoughts?

  8. #8
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    That 750 was needed to go from 200 to 230 . the more you go away from what your natural potential is the more the aas you are going to need to gain same amount of muscle .if you have year and a half i would say start test with 500 for first two weeks bump to 750 for next 4 weeks go to 1000 for next 4 weeks
    go to 1250 for next 4 weeks and go back down to 1000 for 4 weeks and down to 750 last 2 weeks
    repeat this for second bulking cycle too

    i would save tren for prep and keep caber on hand for prolactin .your cycle looks fine too but i dont think you ll put on that much muscle with those mgs.but you never know
    just keep your diet in check increase your calories as your weight increases .keep an eye on your bp ,ldl,estrogen,prolactin ,blood glucose (if you end up usingh gh or insulin )

  9. #9
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Insulin causes muscle cell proliferation by dramatically increasing IGF availability.

  10. #10
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    15,020
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    100 %agreed .but as he doesn't know how much sugar he ll need for 5 iu of insulin .he can end up chugging 50 g of sugary carbs .that ll make him fat unless he is ecto. he can play it safe with gh take 10 g carbs per iu of insulin and minimize the fat gainig,.no risk of hypoglycemia and thats not the only reason gh will be used during his cycle .
    Wish I could afford hgh with my slin

  11. #11
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    if you use insulin without gh you will just get fat

    insulin humolog 5 iu on lacking bodypart days only 3 peaks a week right after workout
    Insulin use is not going to make you fat (unless you have no clue what your doing with it or your diet, or your pre-disposed). heck insulin can be used effectively for cutting and contest prep phases. its going to upregulate your conversion of T4 into T3 in the liver and boost your metabolism as well. which is good for staying lean , but also for bulking and nutrient partitioning.

    Also.. the dude wants to be 270 pounds. 5iu a couple times a week isn't going to do shit for that goal. I run 40iu of slin a day just to maintain 212 pounds. and no I'm not getting fat off of it. you design your insulin use around your diet, not your diet around your insulin usage.

    adding HGH is not necessary .. its usually the other way around. its when guys are running high dosages and long durations of HGH that they really need to go ahead and add in insulin (long term HGH use at high dosage without exogenous insulin can cause problems and lead to diabetes).

    of course, if he has the money then running both HGH and Slin have benefits.. but with insulin only being like $23 for a huge bottle its not the slin thats the issue
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-08-2019 at 12:56 PM.
    Family_guy likes this.

  12. #12
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    OP- if your already blasting and cruising and planning out 20 week long cycles, your going to be better off just moving into doing 'phase cycling'. instead of one 20 week long cycle .. you'll spend 20 weeks running several phases of cycles (basically you end up getting 3 times the amount of cycles in then you would otherwise)

    heres a basic intro
    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html

  13. #13
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    Insulin causes muscle cell proliferation by dramatically increasing IGF availability.
    yes thats one of the reasons too why hgh and insulin are used together as hgh stimulates production of IGF-1 in the liver and insulin increase the bioavailability of IGF-1.serum.

  14. #14
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    Insulin use is not going to make you fat (unless you have no clue what your doing with it or your diet, or your pre-dipsoed). heck insulin can be used effectively for cutting and contest prep phases. its going to upregulate your conversion of T4 into T3 in the liver and boost your metabolism as well. which is good for staying lean , but also for bulking and nutrient partitioning.

    Also.. the dude wants to be 270 pounds. 5iu a couple times a week isn't going to do shit for that goal. I run 40iu of slin a day just to maintain 212 pounds. and no I'm not getting fat off of it. you design your insulin use around your diet, not your diet around your insulin usage.
    yes insulin is used during contest prep thats a totally different protocol .upregulation of t4 and t3 is not that important from insulin as during contest prep cytomel is used to address that issue .
    if you need 40 iu of insulin to maintain 212 you sir need to reconsider your diet training and aas use unless you just like to eat and then use insulin with every meal as a tool to shuttle those carbs .i know couple of guys at pro level (from kuwait,india and us) that dont go over 15 iu a day .i am pretty sure you can maintain that weight with just the low dose of test.
    p.s i am mot being disrespectful or anything.i have seen your posts and you know your stuff very well.
    Last edited by ksingh93; 01-08-2019 at 01:18 PM.
    GearHeaded likes this.

  15. #15
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Regarding getting fat from insulin - T3 is shown to have very strong effects in counteracting insulin fat storage properties, the two should always be used together because of extreme synergy

  16. #16
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    yes insulin is used during contest prep thats a totally different protocol .upregulation of t4 and t3 is not that important from insulin as during contest prep cytomel is used to address that issue .
    yes sure.. but my point was that even when NOT in contest prep you will get a 'natural' upregulation of T3 production when utilizing exogenous insulin upwards of 15-20iu per day. so even when not cutting and perhaps bulking or Recomping, using insulin properly will not only help you get more size but also stay relatively lean (the opposite of it making you fat ... if diet is in check).

    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    if you need 40 iu of insulin to maintain 212 you sir need to reconsider your diet training and aas use
    pretty bold statement . when I assess a potential clients 'training' 'diet' and 'aas' , it takes them filling out a very extensive questionnaire and them working with me for weeks before I tell them what to even "reconsider" at all .. yet you are able to do this with little to no information about me, no background, no stats etc, in a matter of seconds. you must be very gifted

    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    i am mot being disrespectful or anything.
    and as far as being "disrespectful" or not .. well I do this for a living (ie, diet, training, and AAS, as a coach and trainer). IF I told you whatever you do for a living is way off point and you can't get it right for yourself (let alone getting paid to do it for other people). you'd probably take offense to that.

    I'm not taking offense of course considering the context . your a stranger that knows nothing of my diet and training and how I set up client protocols and you have a measly 300 posts to your name on here.. I'll continue taking praise from the people that have actually worked with me and not rely on comments of people passing by on an online forum


    and a 'note' - I never said I "Needed" 40 iu of insulin to maintain my weight.. I said I run 40iu of insulin maintaining 212 pounds, in COMPARISON to your advice to the OP that wants to be 270 pounds and how that 5iu a couple times a week is not near enough (my 120 pound wife runs more then that .. let alone a guy that wants to be a mass monster sized open bodybuilder)
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-08-2019 at 02:12 PM.
    Family_guy likes this.

  17. #17
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    I should clarify.. I'm all for starting with 5iu of insulin and a glucose meter as a 'test' to see where your at in disposing of glucose with whatever form of exogenous insulin you chose.
    my point was just that 5iu a couple times a week is NOT an actual mass building open bodybuilder protocol. that dosage is used for 'testing' tolerances. its not actually used to build muscle in a true mass gain protocol imo

  18. #18
    Chrisp83TRT's Avatar
    Chrisp83TRT is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    851
    Yo , why is everyone hating on gear ? He's not at all being disrespectful to anyone on here .

    He has a pretty confident tone to how he speaks and it's simply because he takes the time to be in the know with the info he states here.

    If you don't necessarily agree with his theories and methods , simply ask questions or move it along.

    What do you get out of being a dick to someone that brings knowledge for free ?



    Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk
    GearHeaded and Family_guy like this.

  19. #19
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    oh and one more thought here . we've touched on HGH usage with insulin to help you "not get fat" from insulin usage ... but the combination of Insulin used with DNP has been used to bring in lean hard round shredded mass monsters on stage for a couple decades now.

    I'm not advocating using them together. I'm just saying insulin has been used in combinations with other drugs to get super shredded.. IF insulin inherantly makes you fat, then there is no way it would be used like it is in bodybuilding the last few decades.

    for more see my post here #6

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...about-dnp.html
    ksingh93 likes this.

  20. #20
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I should clarify.. I'm all for starting with 5iu of insulin and a glucose meter as a 'test' to see where your at in disposing of glucose with whatever form of exogenous insulin you chose.
    my point was just that 5iu a couple times a week is NOT an actual mass building open bodybuilder protocol. that dosage is used for 'testing' tolerances. its not actually used to build muscle in a true mass gain protocol imo
    i agree with you on that .i only adviced 5 iu as insulin cause bloat ,gets you fat , hypoglycemia, unless you know what youre doing or have some experienced guy keeping an eye on you .insulin is totally based on an individual .as op didnt really used much of aas .its the best bet to raise the aas and see how your body respond to those doses keep that 5 iu as a tool to bring up lacking bodyparts (best used with oil) .i would never advice anyone going over 10 to 15 iu of insulin .big ramy and gearhead are the exceptions

  21. #21
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    Yo , why is everyone hating on gear ? He's not at all being disrespectful to anyone on here .

    He has a pretty confident tone to how he speaks and it's simply because he takes the time to be in the know with the info he states here.

    If you don't necessarily agree with his theories and methods , simply ask questions or move it along.

    What do you get out of being a dick to someone that brings knowledge for free ?
    thanks brother ..

    and just an fyi - I'm not on here to get anyone to 'agree with me' . I don't need anyone to condone or agree with my practices and theories. all I do is continue to learn through research and experience, and openly share that with you all.. its up to you all to take it however you want or chose to .

    perhaps my demeanor comes off as being "debating" , but I'm not here to debate, just sharing info and exchanging ideas with fellow juice heads
    Family_guy likes this.

  22. #22
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    oh and one more thought here . we've touched on HGH usage with insulin to help you "not get fat" from insulin usage ... but the combination of Insulin used with DNP has been used [/url]
    why would you use dnp while bulking ?
    it ll be more of a contest prep protocol

  23. #23
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    .i would never advice anyone going over 10 to 15 iu of insulin .big ramy and gearhead are the exceptions
    don't forget the bikini girls and mens physique guys

    guarantee you plenty of women will pin 15iu of slin post workout.

    the idea of 5iu only of slin is what you read on forums and here on the Internet and youtube vids . its a 'cover up' to what really goes on behind closed doors , its a way of keeping the public safe.. this shits been going on in bodybuilding for years. the 'in' crowd wants to keep their secrets to themselves, and in so doing they say its for 'public safety' of some young kid that might do what they do.
    I personally , just want to tell it how it is. and leave it up to the listeners to decide what they want to do for themselves
    ksingh93 likes this.

  24. #24
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    why would you use dnp while bulking ?
    it ll be more of a contest prep protocol
    you misunderstood . my point was that insulin doesn't inherently make you fat , or it wouldn't be used in bodybuilding the way it has for decades (like the DNP + slin example I gave .. which I didn't say was for bulking, its for created super shredded mass monsters.. again, insulin isn't making these guys fat)

  25. #25
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    .i would never advice anyone going over 10 to 15 iu of insulin .big ramy and gearhead are the exceptions
    in regards to Big Ramy .. you forgot a couple zeros . 15iu of slin for big ramy , lol. he produces more then that naturally when he eats his 3000 cal breakfast..

    I know of regular gym bros running 200iu of slin per day . and big ramy is the 'exception' at only 15 ?

  26. #26
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    theres guys you interact with on these forums daily that run 40-70iu of slin per day (haven't you noticed?). yet only guys like big ramy would run 15 ?

    your off base here. 120 pound females will run more then 15
    fiddlesticks and Family_guy like this.

  27. #27
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    theres guys you interact with on these forums daily that run 40-70iu of slin per day (haven't you noticed?). yet only guys like big ramy would run 15 ?

    your off base here. 120 pound females will run more then 15
    On dave palumbos podcast a guy who was about ramys size was using200-250 a day. Another person using 200iu would drink a mixture of water and honey throughout the whole day to maintain glucose. Shits intense.

    Personally, I think using high doses of insulin is needed to build muscle at a high level, but not to maintain really. I can maintain 260lbs relatively lean with 5 to 15 iu. To gain more muscle size I need multiple 15iu injects per day of insulin and insulin NPH (medium acting, i think synthetic insulin is stronger than human per IU)
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 01-08-2019 at 03:46 PM.
    GearHeaded likes this.

  28. #28
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    oh and one more thought here . we've touched on HGH usage with insulin to help you "not get fat" from insulin usage ... but the combination of Insulin used with DNP has been used to bring in lean hard round shredded mass monsters on stage for a couple decades now.

    I'm not advocating using them together. I'm just saying insulin has been used in combinations with other drugs to get super shredded.. IF insulin inherantly makes you fat, then there is no way it would be used like it is in bodybuilding the last few decades.

    for more see my post here #6

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...about-dnp.html
    Yup, like I've said numerous times DNP interacts with insulin to create a 25x more potent form. Now THAT is one hell of a secret.
    GearHeaded likes this.

  29. #29
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    OP - to help get your thread back on track. here is an idea of how to run 20 weeks for mass

    Your base for the whole 20 weeks
    Test 500mg week
    Deca 400mg week
    HGH 8iu per day
    Insulin 20-40iu per day
    T4 100mcg per day

    then you have three phases you run with that base

    Phase 1 (weeks 1-7) - estrogen and osmotic super compensation phase (trying to get estrogen and blood volume super high to start)
    Test 1500 (remember your test base is 500, so you add 1 gram to this base)
    Anadrol 50mg per day (weeks 1-5)
    Dbol 50mg per day
    NPP 100mg per day

    Phase 2 (weeks 8-14) - max estrogen phase with androgens (to off set E and add strength)
    Test 1000
    Ment 50mg per day
    Tren 25mg per day
    Masteron 50mg per day

    phase 3 (weeks 15-21) - androgen and anabolic phase (Estrogen levels go down at this point)
    Tren a 50mg per day
    Masteron 50mg per day
    Primo 100mg per day
    Superdrol 50mg per day (weeks 18-21)

    your looking at 2-3g of gear per week.. this is just an example, you can obviously lower the dosages or raise the dosages per your personal preferences . I personally think 2-3g of gear per week is a good 'growth' dosage for experienced users.

    there are other techniques you can employ to optimize this cycle even further (I'm just providing a basic example as a base to start from).

  30. #30
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    And one other thing I can say for sure is insulin absolutely does not inherently make you fat, in fact i think the polar opposite is the case.. Many people don't understand insulin is the body's most potent anorectic / fed factor. The energy balance gets played with while using insulin to favor lowering fat stores and to increase muscle especially with other anabolics.

    Insulin in enormous supraphyisological doses ( literally anything above like 1 iu or even less) causes supraphysiological amounts of leptin, free T3 and generally increases metabolism/thermogenesis very very much. I am actually leaner if I am taking insulin and T3. Never have I noticed any out of the ordinary fat gain from up to 55iu a day and also have used insulin while in a calorie deficit to spot lose fat with excellent results. Spot fat loss doesn't get much more effective than tren suspenion, insulin and clenbuterol injections. Maybe injectable T3 if that exists.

    And to blow someone's mind even more, I was eating a large surplus while I was using insulin to lose fat and even FURTHER it was mostly fat calories. There was a synergy between the excessive fat intake, insulin, maybe calcium and overall fat loss. If i stopped taking insulin my body didn't have the same thermogenic response at all.

    To prevent any confusion, I have done both deficits and surplus' and noticed fat loss slightly in favor with the surplus and muscle retention strongly in the surplus while on anywhere from 20-50 insulin R and insulin NPH.
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 01-08-2019 at 04:50 PM.
    GearHeaded likes this.

  31. #31
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    If i stopped taking insulin my body didn't have the same thermogenic response at all.
    excellent !

    this is something that can only be realized by people that actually have first hand experience.. lots of people want to talk down on insulin use and have false pictures about it , but when you use it for yourself for long periods, you learn a lot about how things "really" work .
    too many guys think they know what they are talking about with insulin usage, but everything they have is from hear se or false rumors they heard about it from their favorite youtube 'expert'
    fiddlesticks likes this.

  32. #32
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    excellent !

    this is something that can only be realized by people that actually have first hand experience.. lots of people want to talk down on insulin use and have false pictures about it , but when you use it for yourself for long periods, you learn a lot about how things "really" work .
    too many guys think they know what they are talking about with insulin usage, but everything they have is from hear se or false rumors they heard about it from their favorite youtube 'expert'
    Im just surprised most people don't understand or realize insulin inherently BURNS fat. Taking 10 iu of insulin is pretty much the same as eating 10 chocolate cakes to your body in terms of how much energy it is willing to get rid of. For people who take insulin and train at all they should be super thermogenic. I am tempted to say my training in conjunction with insulin may have been the factor that told my body to use fat but I don't think that is true due to points I discuss now:

    I have never lost fat quickly as when I ate peanut butter, skim milk (calcium is a MASSIVE fat burner) and took about 50iu insulin, for carbs I drank soda pop, I was literally eating peanut butter to the point it made me vomit almost, a minimum of 1 7000 calorie jar a day. I was basically molten 24/7.. I was taking 50mcg T3 as well but T3 for me doesn't stimulate metabolism very much by itself but is very synergistic with other thermogenic things like calcium. In reverse now, any time I cut insulin and eat at a deficit, usually I end up with nearly the same amount of fat and being 20lbs less. Not cool.

    Gearhead is damn right about people who have not used insulin alot don't fully understand its effects, they are very, very complex, it is without a doubt the most powerful and important tool for the professionals. Them getting a salary is extremely dependant on this hormone.

    I don't want to say they would be nothing without it, but insulin changed pro bodybuilding more than steroids did, its extremely dramatic. There are medical studies showing insulin increases dopamine and opiate activity to massive degrees... When you realize you are making your insulin level at least 100 times higher than normal, the neurological pathways insulin modulates will be a little more active to say the least.it would not be neurologically possible to train like ronnie coleman without this hormone, notice how as soon as he stopped taking the large ped dosages he can't walk? I hypothesize the damage was done long before he came off and the drugs may have nullified the pain.
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 01-08-2019 at 04:44 PM.

  33. #33
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    excellent !


    too many guys think they know what they are talking about with insulin usage, but everything they have is from hear se or false rumors they heard about it from their favorite youtube 'expert'
    i have used every type of insulin on market not for long periods though
    humalog used post workout no more then 10 iu combined with hgh doesnt make me fat but
    humilin r makes me blow up like a waterbaloon and i start storing visceral fat.
    lantus do work for me but i still have to use hgh with low dose of t3 from keep getting fat .

    i just dont say stuff that i read .i use it myself see the results and then recommend.

  34. #34
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    I don't want to say they would be nothing without it, but insulin changed pro bodybuilding more than steroids did, its extremely dramatic..
    steroid using 7 x mr Olympia - non insulin user
    Bulking cycle advice?(test e/deca/tren/slin?)-arnie-2__square.jpg

    steroid using 8 x. mr Olympia - insulin user (open about his use)
    Bulking cycle advice?(test e/deca/tren/slin?)-ronnie-coleman.jpg

    yeah I'd say there is a pretty dramatic difference here
    Obs, fiddlesticks and Family_guy like this.

  35. #35
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    humilin r makes me blow up like a waterbaloon and i start storing visceral fat.
    lantus do work for me but i still have to use hgh with low dose of t3 from keep getting fat ..
    have you ever tried running insulin WITHOUT changing your diet and taking in extra carbs (or certain types of carbs) to account for the insulin dosage ?

    just because you run insulin does not mean your carbs have to go up. thats the number one mistake people make when running slin and ending up getting fat .. its because instead of sticking with their diet plan , they add a bunch of crap to add to their insulin usage/dosages (eg, 10iu of slin means 100g of more junk carbs).
    you don't have to change your diet just to make up for your slin usage, you can make your slin usage line up perfectly with your diet.

    my post on how not to get fat while using insulin
    https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...g-insulin.html
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-08-2019 at 05:45 PM.
    Family_guy likes this.

  36. #36
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    steroid using 7 x mr Olympia - non insulin user
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	arnie-2__square.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	45.8 KB 
ID:	175464

    steroid using 8 x. mr Olympia - insulin user (open about his use)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ronnie-Coleman.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	18.2 KB 
ID:	175465

    yeah I'd say there is a pretty dramatic difference here
    Basically to be superhuman muscle mass wise, insulin is required while steroids alone will accelerate potential natural limit.

    To add to the fat loss potential of insulin: the combo I used of capsaicin topically and insulin was massively effective at stimulating thermogenic effect and speeding insulin absorbtion. Topically capsaicin (literally hot sauce) is very effective at creating subq blood flow, using it on an insulin injection site would in theory speed up the process and simultaneously block any "insulin fat gain effects" while strongly stimulating lipolisys. Capsaicin also has potent igf stimulating activity directly and probably is extremely effective at creating blood volume (epo). There is also a potent opiod effect of capsaicin and it definitely let me do more reps than usual, again with the synergies, insulin itself apparently has opiod activity. Capsaicin would also help painful injections quite a lot.


    , albuterol, T3 and capsaicin basically guarantee you will have massive lipolisys 247 no matter what the circumstance is, they all synergize extremely well and T3 by itself overpowers any innate "insulin fat storage" activity. Perhaps insulin is lipogenic in nature but is overruled by thyroid hormone activity which is confusing because it stimulates thyroid activity.

    In my experience which is very contrast to what most people say is insulin plus excessive fat intake results in strong subq and visceral fat loss, I will investigate any interactions between the two. I did read one study that indicated insulin is unable to store fat during large fat/overfeeding activity, I think that's pretty much right on the dot...

    Theory time , let's assume high fat inhibits insulin lipogenic activity, so we are left with insulin raising metabolic hormones ( ft3 leptin b receptor density) and a surplus of calories which need be burned off. T3 , albuterol tren etc lower the amount of fat required for that fat blocking effect while stimulating lipolisys directly. Overall result due to the extra drugs stimulating metabolism further than insulin would alone is a net loss of energy. This also could explain fat gain when limiting fat and minimum carbs on insulin (and not using t3).

    Sorry to the poor guy who started the thread and now I'm over here talking about fucking hot sauce.
    Last edited by fiddlesticks; 01-08-2019 at 06:09 PM.
    Huher likes this.

  37. #37
    Huher is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    Thank you guys, this thread gave me some food for thought.

    GH that cycle looks professional, but I think it's much stronger than the one I mentioned above. I'll definitely give it a try, but later. I mean I haven't even used HGH, I don't want to start with 8 ius. Since (you can laught at me) I wanna be an IFBB pro - you would laugh more if I said Mr.O competitor -, I'd like to climb the ladder with substances and dosages, I mean, if I shoot everything now, how would I get to 270lbs on stage haha

    Sooo, you say tren isn't needed in this cycle for lean mass? Like I said, I have a year and a half for that 40lbs, so I want to be as lean as possible. How should I replace tren, or should I?

  38. #38
    fiddlesticks's Avatar
    fiddlesticks is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    497
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Huher View Post
    Thank you guys, this thread gave me some food for thought.

    GH that cycle looks professional, but I think it's much stronger than the one I mentioned above. I'll definitely give it a try, but later. I mean I haven't even used HGH, I don't want to start with 8 ius. Since (you can laught at me) I wanna be an IFBB pro - you would laugh more if I said Mr.O competitor -, I'd like to climb the ladder with substances and dosages, I mean, if I shoot everything now, how would I get to 270lbs on stage haha

    Sooo, you say tren isn't needed in this cycle for lean mass? Like I said, I have a year and a half for that 40lbs, so I want to be as lean as possible. How should I replace tren, or should I?
    Maybe incorporate hexarelin if you dont wanna start HGH

  39. #39
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    27,559
    Quote Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post
    Sorry to the poor guy who started the thread and now I'm over here talking about fucking hot sauce.

    Negative. Fascinating knowledge emparted here. It's what makes this place work.
    fiddlesticks likes this.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  40. #40
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Huher View Post
    Thank you guys, this thread gave me some food for thought.

    GH that cycle looks professional, but I think it's much stronger than the one I mentioned above. I'll definitely give it a try, but later. I mean I haven't even used HGH, I don't want to start with 8 ius. Since (you can laught at me) I wanna be an IFBB pro - you would laugh more if I said Mr.O competitor -, I'd like to climb the ladder with substances and dosages, I mean, if I shoot everything now, how would I get to 270lbs on stage haha

    Sooo, you say tren isn't needed in this cycle for lean mass? Like I said, I have a year and a half for that 40lbs, so I want to be as lean as possible. How should I replace tren, or should I?
    I'm confused by your question at the end.

    the cycle I laid out includes Tren and uses it at certain points of the cycle for very specific purposes. I laid it out in detail.

    were you referring to someone else with this question ? again, as I specifically gave a drug protocol that included tren for mass

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •