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Thread: First Cycle

  1. #1
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    First Cycle

    Hey everyone I'm excited to announce I'm starting my first cycle tomorrow.

    I am following Austinites protocols verbatim so there shouldn't be any crazy surprises.

    I will post periodic updates throughout my cycle so that others who are starting out will have a reference as well.

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    perhaps Austinite would agree at this point now , being theres been a ton of anecdotal evidence and peoples experiences to go off of since that sticky was originally written . BUT taking Arimidex at .25mg every other day from day one of a 500mg a week test E cycle is not ideal. I've seen lots of problems with guys doing this.

    3 weeks into the cycle . I've seen guys saying I'm lethargic, I have no sex drive, I have brain fog, my body feels achy and sore , etc etc.. when they thought that 3 weeks in they were supposed to feel like a god and on top of the world.

    starting Arimidex at that high of a dosage form DAY 1 , with only 500mg of a slow releasing test often times results in a very skewed androgen to estrogen ratio . your androgens begin elevating, while your estrogen begins declining and possibly crashing. your going to be a hormonal nightmare if this happens. as your androgens begin elevating (from injecting test) your estrogen is SUPPOSED to elevate along with that.
    driving estro way down while driving androgens up at the same time is going to cause problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    perhaps Austinite would agree at this point now , being theres been a ton of anecdotal evidence and peoples experiences to go off of since that sticky was originally written . BUT taking Arimidex at .25mg every other day from day one of a 500mg a week test E cycle is not ideal. I've seen lots of problems with guys doing this.

    3 weeks into the cycle . I've seen guys saying I'm lethargic, I have no sex drive, I have brain fog, my body feels achy and sore , etc etc.. when they thought that 3 weeks in they were supposed to feel like a god and on top of the world.

    starting Arimidex at that high of a dosage form DAY 1 , with only 500mg of a slow releasing test often times results in a very skewed androgen to estrogen ratio . your androgens begin elevating, while your estrogen begins declining and possibly crashing. your going to be a hormonal nightmare if this happens. as your androgens begin elevating (from injecting test) your estrogen is SUPPOSED to elevate along with that.
    driving estro way down while driving androgens up at the same time is going to cause problems.
    Damn I’m doing .25 mg EOD just now. 200 mg test prop/ 550 mg EQ / 125 mg test E. I know you said the EQ has anti estrogenic properties but it takes a while to kick in. Maybe I should lower the dose later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Damn I’m doing .25 mg EOD just now. 200 mg test prop/ 550 mg EQ / 125 mg test E. I know you said the EQ has anti estrogenic properties but it takes a while to kick in. Maybe I should lower the dose later.
    yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
    however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic , increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

    its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

    but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

    check this vid out for more info

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


    even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
    its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 04-07-2019 at 10:58 PM.

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    Butcher78 is offline New Member
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    I'm planning my first cycle also and cut the AI's out after Gear brought this to my attention. Lots of info on this topic. Good Luck

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    Hey GearHeaded thanks for the input I always love hearing your thoughts.

    I had wondered that but given my lack of experience (everything I "know" is just from reading) I didn't want to question the sticky.

    Would you say that leaving it out for now until getting blood work done durring cycle be best? Then evaluate from there?

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    DAY ONE UPDATE

    Using Test E 250/ml



    Holy crap it feels amazing to finally have made the leap

    But...


    Haha I took like 10 minutes with the pin in hand before I could stick it in. (Just a mental thing, always had issues either needles and it was counter intuitive to stick myself)
    Also I am expecting a pretty dang good amount of PIP as I was shaking during the whole process.

    Overall though the process was smooth and had no issues though
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    DAY ONE UPDATE

    Using Test E 250/ml



    Holy crap it feels amazing to finally have made the leap

    But...


    Haha I took like 10 minutes with the pin in hand before I could stick it in. (Just a mental thing, always had issues either needles and it was counter intuitive to stick myself)
    Also I am expecting a pretty dang good amount of PIP as I was shaking during the whole process.

    Overall though the process was smooth and had no issues though
    Where did you pin? I remember my first time like it was yesterday... well it was literally like 7 months ago so not that long ago lol. My favorite spot is the delts, followed by quads (but I have to get it in the right place or else it's my least favorite spot), then glutes. Glutes are always awkward for me. BTW I had pretty bad pip the first time around. Now on my second cycle I haven't felt anything, even though I haven't pinned these spots in over 4 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
    however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic , increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

    its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

    but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

    check this vid out for more info

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


    even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
    its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.

    Yes, I always remember you telling me not to overdo it with the AIs on my first cycle. I think I was taking .5 mg/week on around 800 mg/week of test and I didn't get gyno or too much water retention. My BP did go up. It's interesting, because right after my cycle I think I started getting estrogenic sides like puffy hands and stiff fingers.

    This time I'm on a cut for the summer so I kind of want to keep bloat down. I will need to run bloods mid way to see where my levels are.

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    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Where did you pin? I remember my first time like it was yesterday... well it was literally like 7 months ago so not that long ago lol. My favorite spot is the delts, followed by quads (but I have to get it in the right place or else it's my least favorite spot), then glutes. Glutes are always awkward for me. BTW I had pretty bad pip the first time around. Now on my second cycle I haven't felt anything, even though I haven't pinned these spots in over 4 months.
    Right quad, I know I would be shaking and needed to use 2 hands my first time so I went for something easy to access.
    Next I'll do my left and then I'll go for the delts. Just didn't want my first time to be me sticking my delt and not having the 2nd hand to stabilize and causing a lot of damage.

    Nice, yea I'm expecting pip due to not having a steady hand but hoping it won't be too bad like I've heard some stories of. I want to not have any issues doing my squats ha

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    2nd Pin was last night in my left quad( Pinning Monday morning and Thursday evening right before the gym)

    Everything went pretty smooth. A lot less shaking from me, slowing getting over my mental issues with needles....slowly.

    The one thing that got me was the pain (or soreness) that came right after the injection.

    My first pin was good and I didn't feel too much till later in the day even into the next but this time was right as I stood up. It felt like taking a knee to my quad.(don't know how else to describe it) it didn't interfere with my lifting though.
    It went away and now it's just normal soreness.

    If there is anything that would be beneficial to anyone following this or anything that I should include with these updates?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    2nd Pin was last night in my left quad( Pinning Monday morning and Thursday evening right before the gym)

    Everything went pretty smooth. A lot less shaking from me, slowing getting over my mental issues with needles....slowly.

    The one thing that got me was the pain (or soreness) that came right after the injection.

    My first pin was good and I didn't feel too much till later in the day even into the next but this time was right as I stood up. It felt like taking a knee to my quad.(don't know how else to describe it) it didn't interfere with my lifting though.
    It went away and now it's just normal soreness.

    If there is anything that would be beneficial to anyone following this or anything that I should include with these updates?
    Are you pinning inner or outer quad?

    If you use Z track method for injections then you should shake a lot less as it's a more involved technique.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Are you pinning inner or outer quad?

    If you use Z track method for injections then you should shake a lot less as it's a more involved technique.
    I'm winning outer quad. Just looked up the z track method and plan on trying it out on Monday. Thanks for that tip!

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    Littlearnie is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
    however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic , increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

    its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

    but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

    check this vid out for more info

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


    even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
    its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.
    Can you elaborate on what you mean by eq and anti estrongenic properties.
    Because at first I thought it meant it lowers extrogen. Or that it counters the test. But if you read the profiles on site like steroidal.con it states it converts to estorgen all the same but just at a much lower rate.
    The anabolic doc on you tube says it is half as estrogenic as test...
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    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    3rd pin yesterday went great.
    Z Track Method really helped out, thanks again for the tip Windex.
    Only my 3rd pin but so far after each time my quad is sore for 2-3 days. Nothing that is too bothersome though, just have to go slow when I stretch that side.

    Last night's workout was fun and I'm not sure if it's just a mental side effect of things or if I am starting to feel it kick in (test e) but things felt..... better, even when I normally would be struggling to finish a set I just felt like I could give it more.
    And even after my workout I felt less dead. Ha I know the wording is weird but I don't know how to describe it other ways.
    Basically where I would normally want to come home and just crash after eating I still felt energized.

    Looking forward to all my workouts on cycle if they are like this.
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    I'm running quite a few compounds with no AI with advice if gear and haven't checked my E levels but I still get hard no problem and feel good and I'm esto sensitive .



    Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk
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    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Pins really just get easier and easier. Only my 4th one last night but it was incredibly smooth and have minimal pip the day after.
    Still feel my performance in the gym getting better and better.

    Only concern has been a very quick weight gain. Probably more to do with coming off a cut than anything.
    Gained about 6 pounds in about 10 days.... definitely cutting back the carbs on my diet to see how that goes.

    Also since I haven't posted my diet I'll include that here

    Breakfast
    5 whole eggs
    1 cup oats
    1 Banana

    Lunch
    6 oz chicken breast
    180 g broccoli
    1apple

    Snack
    1 can tuna
    12 almonds (litteraly just to break up the taste)

    Dinner
    6 oz chicken breast
    90 g (1/2 cup dry) brown rice
    220 g black beans

    Macros
    2200 cals
    P 200 C 255 F 50

    Was planning on needing to add in more oats and rice over the next several weeks as weight gain stalled but obviously that may be further off than I expected.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    Pins really just get easier and easier. Only my 4th one last night but it was incredibly smooth and have minimal pip the day after.
    Still feel my performance in the gym getting better and better.

    Only concern has been a very quick weight gain. Probably more to do with coming off a cut than anything.
    Gained about 6 pounds in about 10 days.... definitely cutting back the carbs on my diet to see how that goes.

    Also since I haven't posted my diet I'll include that here

    Breakfast
    5 whole eggs
    1 cup oats
    1 Banana

    Lunch
    6 oz chicken breast
    180 g broccoli
    1apple

    Snack
    1 can tuna
    12 almonds (litteraly just to break up the taste)

    Dinner
    6 oz chicken breast
    90 g (1/2 cup dry) brown rice
    220 g black beans

    Macros
    2200 cals
    P 200 C 255 F 50

    Was planning on needing to add in more oats and rice over the next several weeks as weight gain stalled but obviously that may be further off than I expected.
    50g of fat is pretty low imo. I'd suggest switching chicken for bison, beef, lamb, or wild game. Vegetables only once is also not going to satisfy your micro nutrition requirements, especially something like Potassium where the AI is 4100mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlearnie View Post
    Can you elaborate on what you mean by eq and anti estrongenic properties.
    Because at first I thought it meant it lowers extrogen. Or that it counters the test. But if you read the profiles on site like steroidal.con it states it converts to estorgen all the same but just at a much lower rate.
    The anabolic doc on you tube says it is half as estrogenic as test...
    one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
    example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

    EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

    this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
    funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

    anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

    also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

    if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
    if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

    again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

    people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

    aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

    so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

    theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 04-19-2019 at 06:31 PM.

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    OP - what are your current stats and goals for this cycle

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    OP - what are your current stats and goals for this cycle
    6"1
    197
    Bodyfat not exact but I had visable abs before starting to bulk so I estimate around 16%

    My long term goal (several years out) compete in Classic Physique competitions

    This current cycle is to bulk. I had figured my goal would be an extra 10-15 pounds, hence my alarm at the 6 coming so quickly.
    In the past when I bulked I would do so at 2800-3000 calories and go up maybe a half pound a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    50g of fat is pretty low imo. I'd suggest switching chicken for bison, beef, lamb, or wild game. Vegetables only once is also not going to satisfy your micro nutrition requirements, especially something like Potassium where the AI is 4100mg.
    Thanks so much for the feedback back. A couple changes that were planned for my diet in the coming weeks was a salad (no exact measurements)
    Large bowl of spinach
    Quartet to half tomatoes
    Handful of carrots
    About an inch of cucumber

    Sorry if that's sloppy but I've never measured salad just the dressing or "high" calorie toppings (avocado, chicken, ECT)

    As for the switch for chicken that is going to happen as soon as I get out to the inlaws ranch. We usually have beef stockpiled (mostly ground 93-95%) but ran out until we get there in May.

    Will be sure to get some from the grocery store though to hold me over since its obviously more important than I first believed.
    Also will take a look at micronutrients and get a few more veggies worked in there.

    Seriously though thank you (and everyone) for feed back. I thought I had a little more of grasp on my understanding than it seems. So I will gladly take criticism (or praise ha)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    Pins really just get easier and easier. Only my 4th one last night but it was incredibly smooth and have minimal pip the day after.
    Still feel my performance in the gym getting better and better.

    Only concern has been a very quick weight gain. Probably more to do with coming off a cut than anything.
    Gained about 6 pounds in about 10 days.... definitely cutting back the carbs on my diet to see how that goes.

    Also since I haven't posted my diet I'll include that here

    Breakfast
    5 whole eggs
    1 cup oats
    1 Banana

    Lunch
    6 oz chicken breast
    180 g broccoli
    1apple

    Snack
    1 can tuna
    12 almonds (litteraly just to break up the taste)

    Dinner
    6 oz chicken breast
    90 g (1/2 cup dry) brown rice
    220 g black beans

    Macros
    2200 cals
    P 200 C 255 F 50

    Was planning on needing to add in more oats and rice over the next several weeks as weight gain stalled but obviously that may be further off than I expected.
    Hey man. I’m confused as to why you’re concerned about the rapid weight gain? You’re bulking after all right? One phrase that has never been uttered in the history of bodybuilding is “oh my god! I’ve just gained way too much muscle way too fast! :/“

    That’s what your after right bro? Gaining muscle! I do think you should consider upping your calories as much as you can imho.
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    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...pensation.html


    Check this out man! Great read. Explains the rapid weight gain and why that’s a good thing and to be expected

  25. #25
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Hey man. I’m confused as to why you’re concerned about the rapid weight gain? You’re bulking after all right? One phrase that has never been uttered in the history of bodybuilding is “oh my god! I’ve just gained way too much muscle way too fast! :/“

    That’s what your after right bro? Gaining muscle! I do think you should consider upping your calories as much as you can imho.
    First off loved the thread link, thanks for recommending. Funny enough I read it before but it kinda slipped my mind (as noted by my worry above)

    I guess my worry wasn't so much that I'm losing abs or gaining too much muscle(haha yeah I won't complain there) I was just worried that I was putting on mostly fat.
    I don't have any problems putting on weight to achieve long term physique goals. Just thought that the rate was a sign that I was actually putting on lots of fat.
    Didn't want to be the guy who was thinking he is "super jacked" while it's just being fat.

    But this is why I posted it here so I can get feed back from you guys who know better or have a different perspective and of course vastly larger amounts of experience.

    Thanks again
    Last edited by Thors_Hammer; 04-20-2019 at 12:40 AM.
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  26. #26
    balance is online now Associate Member
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    Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread! (GH, FG, etc...)

    OP

    Your starting this cycle right about where I was in December last year (6í 200lbs around 16% BF) Gearhead helped me out immensely and really let me see the light no AI wise much like you. If you have a minute check out my progress log here. I seriously wouldnít stress on the rapid weight gain as itís likely majority water, especially considering your calories. Depending upon how active you are throughout the day I really think your going to need to be closer to 3400 calories to add serious meat to your current frame. I would really not limit your progress by not eating enough. As Iím not super active but 3000 calories for me pretty much holds me steady.

    Also you should really consider doing a cycle progress log here on the forums. It really helps to keep you motivated. Also a huge benefit is the encouragement from the community here, and last but certainly not least guys here can really help you out with extremely helpful information and perspective. Good luck with this cycle,
    LIFT EAT SLEEP!


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread! (GH, FG, etc...)

    OP

    Your starting this cycle right about where I was in December last year (6’ 200lbs around 16% BF) Gearhead helped me out immensely and really let me see the light no AI wise much like you. If you have a minute check out my progress log here. I seriously wouldn’t stress on the rapid weight gain as it’s likely majority water, especially considering your calories. Depending upon how active you are throughout the day I really think your going to need to be closer to 3400 calories to add serious meat to your current frame. I would really not limit your progress by not eating enough. As I’m not super active but 3000 calories for me pretty much holds me steady.

    Also you should really consider doing a cycle progress log here on the forums. It really helps to keep you motivated. Also a huge benefit is the encouragement from the community here, and last but certainly not least guys here can really help you out with extremely helpful information and perspective. Good luck with this cycle,
    LIFT EAT SLEEP!


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    Lol thanks balance. I’m not the real knowledgeable one though! A lot of the stuff I’ve learned is first hand from my first cycle plus all the great knowledge from the guys on this forum of course!

    Definitely agree on OP upping calories. It’s hard to eat too much on cycle if you eat mostly clean. Also agree 100% on the cycle logs...speaking of which I need to post something on mine. I’ve been slacking

  28. #28
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread! (GH, FG, etc...)

    OP

    Your starting this cycle right about where I was in December last year (6’ 200lbs around 16% BF) Gearhead helped me out immensely and really let me see the light no AI wise much like you. If you have a minute check out my progress log here. I seriously wouldn’t stress on the rapid weight gain as it’s likely majority water, especially considering your calories. Depending upon how active you are throughout the day I really think your going to need to be closer to 3400 calories to add serious meat to your current frame. I would really not limit your progress by not eating enough. As I’m not super active but 3000 calories for me pretty much holds me steady.

    Also you should really consider doing a cycle progress log here on the forums. It really helps to keep you motivated. Also a huge benefit is the encouragement from the community here, and last but certainly not least guys here can really help you out with extremely helpful information and perspective. Good luck with this cycle,
    LIFT EAT SLEEP!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Definitely true, I'm loving the advise and help here. I feel like this community is fantastic for anyone needing advice when they are open to applying it and putting in the work.

    Definitely going to take all of this advice for this coming week.

    Will be keeping the diet frame mostly but adding in several more things
    a large spinach salad with various veggies
    some beats (gross but supposed to be full of micronutrients)
    Potatoes
    Plus some more brocoli

    Switching some chicken for 80/20 beef (till I stock up at the inlaws...not gonna lie having free beef from a cattle ranch is awesome because it's like 5 bucks a pound here) then it'll be about 93/7

    I'll also up the carbs, adding in more rice and oats (honestly I make these in the microwave and I just have to wash each bite down with water because they are gross haha)

    Looking forward to seeing the progress I make on this cycle especially getting loose ends tied up this early on
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  29. #29
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Lol thanks balance. I’m not the real knowledgeable one though! A lot of the stuff I’ve learned is first hand from my first cycle plus all the great knowledge from the guys on this forum of course!

    Definitely agree on OP upping calories. It’s hard to eat too much on cycle if you eat mostly clean. Also agree 100% on the cycle logs...speaking of which I need to post something on mine. I’ve been slacking
    I'll definitely have to start one of those I'll be sure to take a look at that section tomorrow, actually thought I was kinda doing that here but would rather make it official and straight forward
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    Definitely true, I'm loving the advise and help here. I feel like this community is fantastic for anyone needing advice when they are open to applying it and putting in the work.

    Definitely going to take all of this advice for this coming week.

    Will be keeping the diet frame mostly but adding in several more things
    a large spinach salad with various veggies
    some beats (gross but supposed to be full of micronutrients)
    Potatoes
    Plus some more brocoli

    Switching some chicken for 80/20 beef (till I stock up at the inlaws...not gonna lie having free beef from a cattle ranch is awesome because it's like 5 bucks a pound here) then it'll be about 93/7

    I'll also up the carbs, adding in more rice and oats (honestly I make these in the microwave and I just have to wash each bite down with water because they are gross haha)

    Looking forward to seeing the progress I make on this cycle especially getting loose ends tied up this early on
    I wouldn't be eating food just because, especially if you find it gross. There is always food substitutions you can make or change the way the food is prepared to make it palatable.

    Diets are all about compliance and adherence - if you aren't enjoying every meal you make it's going to be extremely challenging to have it be a longterm lifestyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I wouldn't be eating food just because, especially if you find it gross. There is always food substitutions you can make or change the way the food is prepared to make it palatable.

    Diets are all about compliance and adherence - if you aren't enjoying every meal you make it's going to be extremely challenging to have it be a longterm lifestyle.
    I actually agree with windex here! I find it hard to actually “enjoy” meals when I’m really stuffing myself all the time. So I don’t stuff myself like that anymore. It’s just no fun.
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  32. #32
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I wouldn't be eating food just because, especially if you find it gross. There is always food substitutions you can make or change the way the food is prepared to make it palatable.

    Diets are all about compliance and adherence - if you aren't enjoying every meal you make it's going to be extremely challenging to have it be a longterm lifestyle.
    Thanks Windex. I guess I've always adhered to the "end justifies the means" mindset. Even back in highschool I would just eat for nutrition rather than taste.... Not fun but I've done it.

    Ill have to experiment to find other ways to prep it but in the mean time I'll keep sucking it up until I find that way.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    Thanks Windex. I guess I've always adhered to the "end justifies the means" mindset. Even back in highschool I would just eat for nutrition rather than taste.... Not fun but I've done it.

    Ill have to experiment to find other ways to prep it but in the mean time I'll keep sucking it up until I find that way.
    Switching to a rice cooker with bone broth or stock is an easy fix.
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  34. #34
    Thors_Hammer is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Switching to a rice cooker with bone broth or stock is an easy fix.
    Well I do the rice cooker for rice oats are what I microwave.

    BUT that actually sounds like a great idea! I am gonna try out that for my next batch of rice! Already got this week's made but I'll grab some broth my next grocery store visit.
    Honestly I'm pretty excited for the switch!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
    example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

    EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

    this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
    funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

    anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

    also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

    if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
    if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

    again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

    people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

    aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

    so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

    theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here
    Apologies, don't mean to hijack this thread but very interested in this response. i'll make it quick. So if someone were interested in running a trt dose of test (200/wk) with say 600/wk of EQ, judging from this answer, could you expect the benefits of test (strength, size) with minimal to zero estro issues because of the EQ minimizing or eliminating the estro conversion?
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  36. #36
    Littlearnie is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
    example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

    EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

    this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
    funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

    anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

    also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

    if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
    if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

    again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

    people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

    aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

    so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

    theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here
    Wow I almost missed this reply. I wish this website layout wasn’t from the dawn of creation and I actually got a prompt when there’s a reply...

    Anyway thank you very much for the info.


    Also this isn’t the first time you’ve shut down resources I’ve been trying to learn from. First it was the anavar guy now online profiles and the anabolic doc.

    Do you have some good names to learn from or some sites with reliable and current info?
    Last edited by Littlearnie; 04-29-2019 at 09:23 AM.
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  37. #37
    pgc640 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thors_Hammer View Post
    Hey everyone I'm excited to announce I'm starting my first cycle tomorrow.

    I am following Austinites protocols verbatim so there shouldn't be any crazy surprises.

    I will post periodic updates throughout my cycle so that others who are starting out will have a reference as well.
    Good luck with it man. I just don't see what type of protocols you could be following on a first cycle. I mean take some test maybe some dbol or something and make sure you have your estrogen covered that's it. Like I Said best of luck!

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgc640 View Post
    Good luck with it man. I just don't see what type of protocols you could be following on a first cycle. I mean take some test maybe some dbol or something and make sure you have your estrogen covered that's it. Like I Said best of luck!

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
    Probably these protocols:

    https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...rst-cycle.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Smith54 View Post
    Apologies, don't mean to hijack this thread but very interested in this response. i'll make it quick. So if someone were interested in running a trt dose of test (200/wk) with say 600/wk of EQ, judging from this answer, could you expect the benefits of test (strength, size) with minimal to zero estro issues because of the EQ minimizing or eliminating the estro conversion?
    well the benefits of test, ie. size, come largely from its ability to aromatize and increase estrogen levels. estrogen is very anabolic in the presence of elevated androgens (test is an androgen, as androgen levels go up, estrogen going up with it will really help put on the size). This is why ranchers have injected cattle with estrogen along with their androgens. you'll get more muscle and more growth with high levels of estrogen.

    but anyhow, if you don't want the elevated estrogen (you may limit your growth potential) you can still get some basic anabolic tissue building effects out of stacking low dose Test with high dose EQ.
    in fact I've promoted this protocol lots of times on this board . here it is .. if your estrogen sensitive but you want to run a gram of test (and avoid AI's) then simply stack 800mg of EQ with 200mg of Test and that will give you your 1000mg base your looking for, but at much much lower estrogen effects then running a gram of just test (the purpose of test to a large degree is to get your estrogen and dht conversion.. if you don't want either of those hormones then you barely need to run any test with your cycles). and EQ is basically testosterone without the strong estrogen effects. so its very valid to use EQ to replace Test for the purpose of keeping total estrogen load low in your cycle.


    this is all situation and context dependent though.. if your in a position where you need to put on 50 pounds over the next couple years, your going to want to run wet and estrogenic compounds as the estrogen will help with growth. If your just trying to refine the mass you already have, then go dry and light on the estrogen.
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  40. #40
    Mr.Smith54 is offline New Member
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    So it's the same net effect, 1gr. test and an AI or 200mg. test and 800mg. EQ. ?

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