Need PCT advice after becoming a near vegetable (bus accident) HELP!!

[SuperVegeta]

Hi all, long story short, was basically done with my 17 week steroid cycle, got hit by a bus. Erm, can't really move much, just walking with crutches in excruciating pain. No gym, but can do assisted machines/resistance bands a little

I finished a 17 week cycle (16.5ish), was supposed to blast and cruise, but now the gym isn't really on the agenda anymore, no choice but to PCT. But ofcourse I want to keep my muscles since I won't be building any thanks to my injuries. (I have forced myself to do bullcrap exercises in the past week to maintain my muscle and will continue training.) Aim was to pack on size (was bulking), gained 7kg, lost a lot of fat as towards the end I was doing an aggressive cut. (Still cutting right now.)

Anyways. Here was my cycle:
Week 1 - 17 = Hcg 250iu/Week.
Week 1 - 17 = Arimidex 0.25mg EOD.
Week 1 - 2 = Test E FRONTLOAD 1G/WEEK.
Week 2 - 5 = Test E 525mg/Week.
Week 5 - 8 = Test E 157.5mg/Week.
Week 4 - 8 = Anadrol 50mg/ED.
Week 2 - 5 = NPP 402.5mg/Week.
Week 2 - 8 = Masteron E 402.5mg/Week. (I did double dose/frontload the first 2 doses.)
Week 5 - 17 = Tren A 402.5mg/Week.
Week 8 - 17 = Mast P 402.5mg/Week.
Week 8 - 17 = Test P 140mg/Week.

At week 13 I did a 11 day DNP cut while on cycle. 200mg first 4 days. 400mg until day 11. Lost like 4kg.

Overall cycle was good. PRs went up, net gain (including cut towards end) was +7kg. Squat 280kg × 4 ~ 300kg × 4. Bench Press 180kg × 5 ~ 195kg × 8. I look super ripped, maybe 11% bf 90kg. Still ultra bloated, still hasn't gone yet??

Troubles/side effects on cycle: None. 0 issues. 0 acne, basically a dream cycle. Nipples got bumps under them but in the past week they have felt better since stopping the cycle. They are still there though. Boner/drive is 0 though my loads are decent. My face throughout the cycle was bloated, a lot, looked so terrible. Gut felt full of water despite being lean. Hence why I tinkered with the esters yet it did nothing, eh, trial and error. Towards the end I had it in mind to switch to fast esters so I can start a PCT sooner. (Wasn't sure of blast and cruise idea just yet.)

Please advise me. Last pin was on 29th September (5ish days ago). My plan was just to do a high HCG dose for today and tomorrow (1000iu) (I have a lot of it left and obviously over £200+ worth of hcg will go in the trash, so how shall I best utilise it?) then start some kind of PCT? I have nolva and clomid with me. I am concerned as I know NPP/TREN have metabolites that'll suppress you for 18 months, hence why my initial plan was to blast and cruise.

What shall I do?!

Thanks all.

[SuperVegeta]

Bloods: Getting blood test on October 20th, so 3ish weeks away. Would've started my PCT by then, so yeah.

I can't wait to get my bloods as honestly right now (even the weeks before the accident) I've felt really tired/lethargic. Especially after the DNP .

Also, in February I did an EC stack cut. I swear that messed me up permanently. Aggressive cut, lost 5kg in 4 weeks. Since then my libido reached near 0 and I've had like 0 energy since then. Hopping on steroids didn't really change that. However I did hop on eclomiphene (post LGD) over a month later that helped my libido a small amount. Testicles grew a lot. Any ideas? I thought EC stacks were supposed to be mild, what could it have done to me? I haven't felt the same since. My normal life has me consuming 0 caffeine anyways, so stopping it cold at the time may have done something to me? I don't know. Anything to look out for in my blood test with this in mind? If there's anything else to check out?

Also during that last cut, I was eating so little, maybe a 1800+ calorie deficit. Strength went up, cut felt too aggressive as I barely lost 0.3kg/week, if that, should've been like 1.5kg/week like it was in February. I don't know, just some thoughts of what I thought was weird on cycle, was I recomping, holding extra water, etc etc. I've read there are thyroid issues linked with metabolism issues. Thoughts?

Man, I am scared. Blasting and cruising was supposed to be my ticket out of this, but maybe this is a good thing with the insane tiredness going on.

[Cuz]

I used to long cycles. 16-20 weeks. Then I had to get on trt. Feel shitty and tired no matter what I do now.

[SuperVegeta]

I used to long cycles. 16-20 weeks. Then I had to get on trt. Feel shitty and tired no matter what I do now.

Yeah but as long as I use ny bloods as a criteria/checklist for what needs to be restored to normal values, it should be alright in time right? I'm guessing with you, you've probably been happy to hop on trt as a way out, except that's fine as you still lift properly. Would you rather do the whole steroid routine the PCT way instead of the trt/pinning 24/7 way?

What's your advice on a PCT? I can't hop on trt, just pointless with my injuries.

[SuperVegeta]

Please guys, any help/insight is needed!! In a rush to start the PCT!

[Cylon357]

Hi all, long story short, was basically done with my 17 week steroid cycle, got hit by a bus. Erm, can't really move much, just walking with crutches in excruciating pain. No gym, but can do assisted machines/resistance bands a little

I finished a 17 week cycle (16.5ish), was supposed to blast and cruise, but now the gym isn't really on the agenda anymore, no choice but to PCT. But ofcourse I want to keep my muscles since I won't be building any thanks to my injuries. (I have forced myself to do bullcrap exercises in the past week to maintain my muscle and will continue training.) Aim was to pack on size (was bulking), gained 7kg, lost a lot of fat as towards the end I was doing an aggressive cut. (Still cutting right now.)

Anyways. Here was my cycle:
Week 1 - 17 = Hcg 250iu/Week.
Week 1 - 17 = Arimidex 0.25mg EOD.
Week 1 - 2 = Test E FRONTLOAD 1G/WEEK.
Week 2 - 5 = Test E 525mg/Week.
Week 5 - 8 = Test E 157.5mg/Week.
Week 4 - 8 = Anadrol 50mg/ED.
Week 2 - 5 = NPP 402.5mg/Week.
Week 2 - 8 = Masteron E 402.5mg/Week. (I did double dose/frontload the first 2 doses.)
Week 5 - 17 = Tren A 402.5mg/Week.
Week 8 - 17 = Mast P 402.5mg/Week.
Week 8 - 17 = Test P 140mg/Week.

At week 13 I did a 11 day DNP cut while on cycle. 200mg first 4 days. 400mg until day 11. Lost like 4kg.

Overall cycle was good. PRs went up, net gain (including cut towards end) was +7kg. Squat 280kg × 4 ~ 300kg × 4. Bench Press 180kg × 5 ~ 195kg × 8. I look super ripped, maybe 11% bf 90kg. Still ultra bloated, still hasn't gone yet??

Troubles/side effects on cycle: None. 0 issues. 0 acne, basically a dream cycle. Nipples got bumps under them but in the past week they have felt better since stopping the cycle. They are still there though. Boner/drive is 0 though my loads are decent. My face throughout the cycle was bloated, a lot, looked so terrible. Gut felt full of water despite being lean. Hence why I tinkered with the esters yet it did nothing, eh, trial and error. Towards the end I had it in mind to switch to fast esters so I can start a PCT sooner. (Wasn't sure of blast and cruise idea just yet.)

Please advise me. Last pin was on 29th September (5ish days ago). My plan was just to do a high HCG dose for today and tomorrow (1000iu) (I have a lot of it left and obviously over £200+ worth of hcg will go in the trash, so how shall I best utilise it?) then start some kind of PCT? I have nolva and clomid with me. I am concerned as I know NPP/TREN have metabolites that'll suppress you for 18 months, hence why my initial plan was to blast and cruise.

What shall I do?!

Thanks all.

First things first, why are you complicating the cycle so much? No need to front load, no need to specify "402.5mg per week" just say 400. The way you have laid this out is very confusing. A better way would be:

Hey, I did a cycle with long esters to start, shorter ones to finish. Test E, Mast E, some NPP in the first half, Mast P, Tren A, Test P in the back 9 weeks. HCG throughout, Adex .25 mg EOD throughout. Did some a-bombs in weeks 4 - 8.

But even that looks daffy. This is probably way too advanced for you, it would be for a lot of men that aren't pros. It's OK to start with long esters and finish with short ones if blood work is coming up, but this seems a little haphazardly designed. Not harshing, just laying out what I see. And the number one reason I think this might be too advanced for you is: you are asking about PCT. That should be a no brainer.

But Old Man Cy ain't just gonna be a d!ck, I will try to help, too.

Since you finished with several weeks of short esters, you can start PCT 7 to 10 days after your last shot. Use 500iu HCG EOD right up to the start of PCT. IMO, PCT can consist of:

Enclomiphene: 50mg per day for week 1, 25mg per day for weeks 2 through 4
Nolvadex : 20mg per day for week 1, 10 mg per day for weeks 2 through 4
Whatever herbals you think might help, Longjack comes to mind for me, but this is MOST DEFINITELY optional.

That's it.

The OTC stuff won't actually help with HPTA restart, but short term use of some supplements can improve mindset at least in the short term, and eh, it's only money.

[SuperVegeta]

First things first, why are you complicating the cycle so much? No need to front load, no need to specify "402.5mg per week" just say 400. The way you have laid this out is very confusing. A better way would be:

Hey, I did a cycle with long esters to start, shorter ones to finish. Test E, Mast E, some NPP in the first half, Mast P, Tren A, Test P in the back 9 weeks. HCG throughout, Adex .25 mg EOD throughout. Did some a-bombs in weeks 4 - 8.

But even that looks daffy. This is probably way too advanced for you, it would be for a lot of men that aren't pros. It's OK to start with long esters and finish with short ones if blood work is coming up, but this seems a little haphazardly designed. Not harshing, just laying out what I see. And the number one reason I think this might be too advanced for you is: you are asking about PCT. That should be a no brainer.

But Old Man Cy ain't just gonna be a d!ck, I will try to help, too.

Since you finished with several weeks of short esters, you can start PCT 7 to 10 days after your last shot. Use 500iu HCG EOD right up to the start of PCT. IMO, PCT can consist of:

Enclomiphene: 50mg per day for week 1, 25mg per day for weeks 2 through 4
Nolvadex : 20mg per day for week 1, 10 mg per day for weeks 2 through 4
Whatever herbals you think might help, Longjack comes to mind for me, but this is MOST DEFINITELY optional.

That's it.

The OTC stuff won't actually help with HPTA restart, but short term use of some supplements can improve mindset at least in the short term, and eh, it's only money.

Hi, thanks man, I remember you from months ago, much appreciated. Sorry for rambling/not making sense. Yeah, that cycle was a little weird, though I have a few cycles under my belt. My concerns regarding PCTing isn't because I'm a beginner/don't know any better, it is because I am injured badly and I don't know how I'll react to side effects since I'm in pain all over.

So, hmmm, I have clomid and enclomiphene with me. What's your thoughts on the preffered one? It seems like I'd go through a bottle of 30ml enclomiphene at 12.5mg/ml quite quickly with the dosage you laid out. 50mg enclomiphene is like 100mg clomid right?

Was your PCT outline bother enclomiphene and nolvadex together or as one or the other? Just clarifying.

My plan was to start tomorrow morning (literally in 12ish hours), so I'll wait on your reply and do a little research for now. It has been 7ish days since I last pinned, 3ish days since last hcg.

Should I have dropped arimidex by now? Had a dose just yesterday as my nipples still have lumps under them/was worried about the sensitivity. Maintained size for past week, but a week ago they were growing/sensitive.

What other stuff/ancillaries do you recommend I buy? I have 1g vitamin c, zm6 extreme and an adult multivitamin everyday. Amazon same day delivery is great in UK so I can buy whatever now.

Thanks.

[SuperVegeta]

Also I am concerned with trying 50mg enclomiphene ED. I remember doing 12.5.mg ED earlier this year and in the night I was sweating a whole bunch. 12.5mg seems like the upper end of what is recommended cycle wise, so why do you recommend 5x this?

Thanks.

[Cylon357]

Some good questions here.

Enclomiphene dosage is based on the tried and true "planning my first cycle" recommended plan. It recommends 100mg clomid that first week... that yields 62.5 mg Enclomiphene. I just opt to round down.

Enclomiphene and Nolvadex are recommended together because they serve different purposes. The Enclomiphene functions more for HPTA restart, the nolva for gyno prevention.

The doses of both of those are in fact high, but the goal is HPTA restart, not long term HRT.

You could cut those doses in half, use as recommended, or follow the PCT that has worked for you in the past.

I'm not sure I would continue adex use in PCT, but maybe someone else will chime in on that.

[SuperVegeta]

Some good questions here.

Enclomiphene dosage is based on the tried and true "planning my first cycle" recommended plan. It recommends 100mg clomid that first week... that yields 62.5 mg Enclomiphene. I just opt to round down.

Enclomiphene and Nolvadex are recommended together because they serve different purposes. The Enclomiphene functions more for HPTA restart, the nolva for gyno prevention.

The doses of both of those are in fact high, but the goal is HPTA restart, not long term HRT.

You could cut those doses in half, use as recommended, or follow the PCT that has worked for you in the past.

I'm not sure I would continue adex use in PCT, but maybe someone else will chime in on that.

Thanks for your response, really thanks!

Yeah that makes sense about the 2 together, have read such things in the past. Fits me quite well since PCTs are individual dependant. Just wanted to know if you're just arbitrarily throwing around PCT plans at me haha. Some people's reasoning is that it worked for them or that it's popular, so yeah lol.

Anyways, this morning I had 12.5mg Enclomiphene and 20mg nolvadex. (Lowered your enclo recommendation, turns out I was symptomatic on 6.25mg enclo back in March with the sleep sweats, not 12.5mg! Eh, I'm coming off a heavy cycle this time around so I will push through with the 12.5mg, see what happens I guess.)

I am able to get my blood test on October 20th. So 3ish weeks in. I don't know if I should wait until 6 weeks after my PCT is over instead to see if it has worked (I should do both in my situation really). But ofcourse I should know if my PCT is working during it too, just with my injuries I don't know if I can make it to the clinic properly. I will find a way if I have to, so if it is necessary, just say so and I will figure it out. (Not getting a home visit, my family is here and this is all private haha. Not sending a pin prick off, those are unreliable.)

What do you think?

I was also planning on stretching my PCT out to 6 weeks. Why? I just think that being on a big messy cycle for 17 weeks calls for more recovery time, thoughts?

I also haven't paired enclomiphene with nolvadex before, at these doses too. Since my body is broken now (bus injury right), I can't really feel out if e.g, I'm getting a headache or pain/tingling/blah blah since I'm hurting all over anyways. So can you please give me some things to watch out for symptom wise? I know I can Google but I just want to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks.

[Cylon357]

I think you are good to lower the dose and extend PCT. Cut your proposed doses in half after week 1.

Be advised that SERMs lower IGF-1, so maybe add some growth or CJC-1295 / ipamorelin to make up for that, especially since you are trying to heal.

[SuperVegeta]

I think you are good to lower the dose and extend PCT. Cut your proposed doses in half after week 1.

Be advised that SERMs lower IGF-1, so maybe add some growth or CJC-1295 / ipamorelin to make up for that, especially since you are trying to heal.

Hi man, I did read this on the day, thanks for explaining that. It has been 1 week since I started PCT, I don't seem to be symptomatic at all. Despite me getting night sweats on 6.25mg enclomiphene earlier this year, my 12.5mg seems to be fine?? Even the 20mg nolvadex , I don't feel any different. Balls feel the same. I remember earlier this year on 6.25mg enclomiphene my balls were sore as heck as if they were growing during the day (as early as day 2, I jotted down notes at the time), but now, nothing.

I understand that the first week of PCT the dose is higher to reach saturation levels faster, then you half the dose when you've peaked to maintain that level (doctors even do it). But since I am asymptomatic, shall I just leave the doses like this (12.5mg enclomiphene ED and 20mg nolvadex ED) for the rest of the cycle instead of cutting the dose in half? I'm tempted to increase, but I don't know much about diminishing returns, ideally you'd want the lowest dose that works.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Cylon357]

Hi man, I did read this on the day, thanks for explaining that. It has been 1 week since I started PCT, I don't seem to be symptomatic at all. Despite me getting night sweats on 6.25mg enclomiphene earlier this year, my 12.5mg seems to be fine?? Even the 20mg nolvadex , I don't feel any different. Balls feel the same. I remember earlier this year on 6.25mg enclomiphene my balls were sore as heck as if they were growing during the day (as early as day 2, I jotted down notes at the time), but now, nothing.

I understand that the first week of PCT the dose is higher to reach saturation levels faster, then you half the dose when you've peaked to maintain that level (doctors even do it). But since I am asymptomatic, shall I just leave the doses like this (12.5mg enclomiphene ED and 20mg nolvadex ED) for the rest of the cycle instead of cutting the dose in half? I'm tempted to increase, but I don't know much about diminishing returns, ideally you'd want the lowest dose that works.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Saturation levels are meaningless in PCT, IMO. You don't need to saturate your system with SERMs. Your goal is HPTA restart. The fact that you aren't having the same issues as before is likely because your system hasn't fully restarted yet. When it does, you may begin to experience your previous symptoms. But by that time, with luck, you will be coming off the SERMs.

[Cylon357]

To add, I would say you can keep your current doses for a while, you could even extend PCT if you want by a week or two.

[SuperVegeta]

Saturation levels are meaningless in PCT, IMO. You don't need to saturate your system with SERMs. Your goal is HPTA restart. The fact that you aren't having the same issues as before is likely because your system hasn't fully restarted yet. When it does, you may begin to experience your previous symptoms. But by that time, with luck, you will be coming off the SERMs.

Hmmm, interesting. Why would my symptoms have come so quickly previously? (Literally on day 1 8ish hours after the first dose, then day 2 was more rough.) I thought it was because of the enclomiphene as one or more of the medicines side effects, not because of the impact it had on my HPTA. Can you clarify? In that case, what symptoms do people usually get upon their HPTA restarting?

I would've thought the difference this time around would be because I used HCG throughout hence making the transition smoother/less pronounced? Assisting the "T" in HPTA, hence why I am asymptomatic? However, maybe you're right about me not even beginning the HPTA restart stage yet, since this was such a heavy/messy cycle compared to the light LGD nonsense earlier this year. Hmmm.

Yeah I'll keep the dose the same.

Thanks.

[Cylon357]

All we can do is speculate here, though there are facts that feed it.

Previously, your entire HPTA was functional.
Now, at least the P part of your HPTA is suppressed.
Theory: you are getting different results with enclomiphene because of this.

You are going to have to ride this one out.