WANNA ADD A STEROID? dont know what?

[ranging1]

hey guys

currently on my second cycle

cycle consists of

800mg test cyp weeks 1-16

im 12 weeks through atm

the bloat is starting to really iritate me, its summer in australia and though im already fairly lean i really am irritated by the bloat

i wanted to lower the bloat but maintain or increase anabolic activity for the last 4 weeks

i was thinking of adding in another non aromatising steroid for the last 4 weeks, and lowering my testerone dosage to 500mg

was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on what would be a good compound?

[stevey_6t9]

id finish off w/ winny since its summer

[ranging1]

id finish off w/ winny since its summer

i was thinking this also since it sprob the simplest, dunno what dosage though?

[bladerunner9]

Should be 100mg ED but 75 is fair too.
Wait for ppl to reply.

[Mooseman33]

why add another steroid. U are young, already on 2nd cycle, and running a high dose of test, add some adex man, that will take care of your bloat.

and 16 weeks of 800mg test, i hope ur using HCG, u are to young to shut urself down that hard and for that long..

[yungone501]

Wow, 16wks of test? I knew there was an explanation for the "shitty situation" LMAO

Dude, why so much so long?

By the way, cool new avatar. Your leaning out quite a bit.

[ranging1]

why add another steroid. U are young, already on 2nd cycle, and running a high dose of test, add some adex man, that will take care of your bloat.

and 16 weeks of 800mg test, i hope ur using HCG, u are to young to shut urself down that hard and for that long..

i was thinking of adding adex but i am a big believer and from research ive done that it does suppress gains to some extent, so i refuse to use it unless i start notciing unwanted side effects

no im not using HCG, i found my last cycle of 14 weeks of test i recovered very fast without hastle,

Should be 100mg ED but 75 is fair too.
Wait for ppl to reply.

100mg might be abit high, 75 maybe sound better

Wow, 16wks of test? I knew there was an explanation for the "shitty situation" LMAO

Dude, why so much so long?

By the way, cool new avatar. Your leaning out quite a bit.

lmfao smart arse, yes well 800mg test would make anyone persue such a shitty situation

the cycle was meant to be 12 weeks but my gains seem to be getting better still, so i didnt wanna discontinue my cycle when for some reaosn now im noticing the most gains in both strength and size, the dosage is 800mg since i found ym previous cycle of 600mg gave me good results but i wanted to see what an extra 200mg would give on benifits vs sides, needless ot say im glad i did raise it to 800mg, really has given me the extra kik i was looking for

thanks im 231 pounds in that photo, got my bf% tested yesterday and came out at exactly 11%, which i thought was pretty dam good considering how bloated i am which would give me a hgiher bf% reading anyways

[MuscleScience]

You dont need another compound, resist the urge to do so if you can. Its really not needed especially considering that when you go off you will drop a lot of the water weight associated with it. If anything you may want to add an A.I.

[Reed]

diet and cardio to lean out would be optimal

[t-gunz]

MS knows whats going on

listen to him ranging..... homosexual lol

[D7M]

i was thinking of adding adex but i am a big believer and from research ive done that it does suppress gains to some extent, so i refuse to use it unless i start notciing unwanted side effects

There's no substitute for real world experience.

Read all the threads you want how an AI will hinder gains,

but I've run AI's on several cycles, and in low doses you shouldn't hinder gains that much.

Oh, and don't run anymore compounds.

[gymnerd]

If its just the bloat just run the dex. It will not hurt yoiu gains in any noticable way. That will take the bloat away somewhat the rest will come off after you get off.

[ranging1]

MS knows whats going on

listen to him ranging..... homosexual lol

okay baby cakes

There's no substitute for real world experience.

Read all the threads you want how an AI will hinder gains,

but I've run AI's on several cycles, and in low doses you shouldn't hinder gains that much.

Oh, and don't run anymore compounds.

i have been reading alot of thrads, and their seem to be inconsitant reviews on adex hindering gains, but their still tends ot be alot of people believing it does hinder it to some extent

diet and cardio to lean out would be optimal

wasnt looking to lean out, im fairly lean already just wanted ot stay anabolic with the bloat, but yes u are definetaly right if i wanted to lean out

If its just the bloat just run the dex. It will not hurt yoiu gains in any noticable way. That will take the bloat away somewhat the rest will come off after you get off.

You dont need another compound, resist the urge to do so if you can. Its really not needed especially considering that when you go off you will drop a lot of the water weight associated with it. If anything you may want to add an A.I.

nws, im going to go with you advices and just not add anything else, ill just tolerate the bloat since i am still gaining well

thanks guys

[AlphaMaleDawg]

why shouldn't he use something like anavar? just wondering why no one suggested this

[MuscleScience]

why shouldn't he use something like anavar? just wondering why no one suggested this

There is no real point to adding it especially at his age and cycle experience coupled with the point at which he is at in his cycle.

[stevey_6t9]

what an anti climax for you ranging

[ranging1]

why shouldn't he use something like anavar? just wondering why no one suggested this

dunno but i agree with above, i dont need to add anything

what an anti climax for you ranging

lol meh, probably better off not adding in any compounds

saves me money anyways, plus valentines days coming up so gonna need some money to take my gf out lol

[darkcrayz]

the cycle was meant to be 12 weeks but my gains seem to be getting better still, so i didnt wanna discontinue my cycle when for some reaosn now im noticing the most gains in both strength and size, the dosage is 800mg since i found ym previous cycle of 600mg gave me good results but i wanted to see what an extra 200mg would give on benifits vs sides, needless ot say im glad i did raise it to 800mg, really has given me the extra kik i was looking for

when you ran 600mg did you notice a drop in strength when you stopped or just stopped at 12 weeks because you planned to? really interesting you are having the opposite situation most guys talk about, ala, the reason to stop at 12 weeks.

[marcus300]

At 19yrs old and on your second cycle, you seriously want to consider your health, your reckless.

[ranging1]

when you ran 600mg did you notice a drop in strength when you stopped or just stopped at 12 weeks because you planned to? really interesting you are having the opposite situation most guys talk about, ala, the reason to stop at 12 weeks.

during my first cycle of 600mg i noticed prob a 2% strength loss during PCT lol, it was very minor, i lost say 3-4 reps in all my lifts, alwise i maintained everything else, i stopped originally at 12 weeks coz i planned to, my gains also were starting to taper off then so i felt it was best to end it then

At 19yrs old and on your second cycle, you seriously want to consider your health, your reckless.

i was waiting for your comment marcus

though i do find it ironic on this board that we critsize people like me who are clearly dedicated to bodybuilding, and work hard

yet we idolize bodybuilders like arnold schwazzenegger, lee priest and many other body builders who starting juiceing much younger then me and ran huge dosages of steroids, not to mention everything else

its shameful

[marcus300]

i was waiting for your comment marcus

though i do find it ironic on this board that we critsize people like me who are clearly dedicated to bodybuilding, and work hard

yet we idolize bodybuilders like arnold schwazzenegger, lee priest and many other body builders who starting juiceing much younger then me and ran huge dosages of steroids, not to mention everything else

its shameful

I think many of us idolize many pro's but that doesn't mean you should start steroids at 18-19yrs old, the chances of you becoming half what they achieved are very very slim, infact i'd say impossible its the elite and top ten in the world who have crazy genetics' what achieve this status.

I think people forget about exactly how reckless and immature you really are, your first cycle consisted of tren for the last part and now your on your 2nd cycle straight away with dosages what are stupid for someone your age, your way of thought regarding steroids is dame right reckless for our readers and that's what i am pointing out.

You should use what you have naturally but instead your think the answer is in an injection or pill, its completely madness and stupid for any 18-19yrs old to cycle like you are, we try to push a safe board and we dont advice young immature boys like yourself who have no idea what they are doing,.

If any newbies are reading please dont follow this guys advice, its reckless and he doesn't know what damage he is doing.

[stevey_6t9]

I think many of us idolize many pro's but that doesn't mean you should start steroids at 18-19yrs old, the chances of you becoming half what they achieved are very very slim, infact i'd say impossible its the elite and top ten in the world who have crazy genetics' what achieve this status.

I think people forget about exactly how reckless and immature you really are, your first cycle consisted of tren for the last part and now your on your 2nd cycle straight away with dosages what are stupid for someone your age, your way of thought regarding steroids is dame right reckless for our readers and that's what i am pointing out.

You should use what you have naturally but instead your think the answer is in an injection or pill, its completely madness and stupid for any 18-19yrs old to cycle like you are, we try to push a safe board and we dont advice young immature boys like yourself who have no idea what they are doing,.

If any newbies are reading please dont follow this guys advice, its reckless and he doesn't know what damage he is doing.

Agreed. he's a bad influence to young people

[t-gunz]

okay baby cakes

nawww i get all warm and fuzzy when you call me that

[ranging1]

I think many of us idolize many pro's but that doesn't mean you should start steroids at 18-19yrs old, the chances of you becoming half what they achieved are very very slim, infact i'd say impossible its the elite and top ten in the world who have crazy genetics' what achieve this status.

I think people forget about exactly how reckless and immature you really are, your first cycle consisted of tren for the last part and now your on your 2nd cycle straight away with dosages what are stupid for someone your age, your way of thought regarding steroids is dame right reckless for our readers and that's what i am pointing out.

You should use what you have naturally but instead your think the answer is in an injection or pill, its completely madness and stupid for any 18-19yrs old to cycle like you are, we try to push a safe board and we dont advice young immature boys like yourself who have no idea what they are doing,.

If any newbies are reading please dont follow this guys advice, its reckless and he doesn't know what damage he is doing.

and becuase pros acheiev such amazing size that makes it okay? so its fine for us to idolize them?

also my first cycle didnt consist of tren, i s lied to you coz i knew your views already, so im still a virgin to tren

and again my dosages are stupid for my age? wow whered u pull that one from? this is just simply YOUR opinion, theres no set guideline for steroid dosages for age, if their were lee priest wouldnt have been on grams of testerone by 16,

i chose to cycle becuase my goals were not naturally acheievable, im sick of hearing you should stay natural still, if your goals arent natural then its your choice whether you pursue steroid usage

thats fine you choose to have ur standards and your safe board, i dont have a problem with that, what i do have an issue with is everytime i ask for advice, i have you come in and tell me how stupid and wreckless i am when i am clearly commited to bodybuilding

coz im 19 you somehow have this idea that i must be stupid? thats nothing but pure ignorance

i come onto this board, i never post my age when i ask questions, coz i already know you have an issue with it, i dont want noobs to see my age and therefore i dont post it to be respectful

most people who are on this board long enough know my age, and help me coz i dont go bragging about it, or show boating it, if anything i always hide it coz i dont wanna encourage younger people to cycle

yet you constantly have to point out my age?? all your doing is making the board look worse by telling everyone my age

if you were smarter you wouldnt come into every thread i post and give me a lecture about my age, and publicly show everyone my age

you would be smarter and just leave it be, i dont try to encourage anyone under the age of 25 to cycle

hell i give advice to people under 25 not to cycle since i respect this boards rules

yet you being so stubborn just need HIGLIGHT my age

well done

[marcus300]

and becuase pros acheiev such amazing size that makes it okay? so its fine for us to idolize them?

also my first cycle didnt consist of tren, i s lied to you coz i knew your views already, so im still a virgin to tren

and again my dosages are stupid for my age? wow whered u pull that one from? this is just simply YOUR opinion, theres no set guideline for steroid dosages for age, if their were lee priest wouldnt have been on grams of testerone by 16,

i chose to cycle becuase my goals were not naturally acheievable, im sick of hearing you should stay natural still, if your goals arent natural then its your choice whether you pursue steroid usage

thats fine you choose to have ur standards and your safe board, i dont have a problem with that, what i do have an issue with is everytime i ask for advice, i have you come in and tell me how stupid and wreckless i am when i am clearly commited to bodybuilding

coz im 19 you somehow have this idea that i must be stupid? thats nothing but pure ignorance

i come onto this board, i never post my age when i ask questions, coz i already know you have an issue with it, i dont want noobs to see my age and therefore i dont post it to be respectful

most people who are on this board long enough know my age, and help me coz i dont go bragging about it, or show boating it, if anything i always hide it coz i dont wanna encourage younger people to cycle

yet you constantly have to point out my age?? all your doing is making the board look worse by telling everyone my age

if you were smarter you wouldnt come into every thread i post and give me a lecture about my age, and publicly show everyone my age

you would be smarter and just leave it be, i dont try to encourage anyone under the age of 25 to cycle

hell i give advice to people under 25 not to cycle since i respect this boards rules

yet you being so stubborn just need HIGLIGHT my age

well done

All because some pros use in their teens doesnt mean you should, your a typical case of a young boy who thinks gear is the be all and end all and if i use gear i will also look like the pros lol, you have stated many times that you used Tren on your first cycle but now you saying you was lying, what a charming boy you are lying to everyone but I think you wasnt lying and you did use Tren because you defended yourself by saying you wanted to see how you responded..

For godsake your 19yrs old and your using drugs all because the pro did, use what you have naturally and do some hardwork in the gym instead of thinking the answer is in an injection, you arent going to be in the top ten of bodybuilders your in dream land son!

Your reckless and stupid, you go around giving advice on compounds you havent even used to people who have done more cycles than you have had hot dinners, you are completely insane and reckless for a 19yr old and I will carry on stating this time and time again because we dont support reckless advice here,

[marcus300]

And while i am at it, let see how much of a lying reckless kid you really are, lets look back over your threads and post, you say you never done tren do you!!

age 25
bf around 11%
height just on 6 feet tall
150kg is 3 n half plates, just find it amazing what steroids can do in terms of strength gains, try member thats 12 reps
i can do 4 plates each side for about 8 reps

On 07-13-2009, 10:11 PM you stated you was 25yrs old http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=394512 but your lying arent you 18-19yrs old really...

hello everyone
this is my first cycle n have just started it
im trying to get asmuch info or knowledge from experienced or knowledgeable people regarding my complete cycle and plan
i would like some opinions from people on how i could adjust my plan to acheive better results

my stats are
age:25
bodyweight:88 kilograms
bf% 12 at most, 6 feet tall
lifts: bench press 90 kilograms 8 reps, deadlift 180 kilograms 6 reps, barbell shoulder press 70 kilograms 10 reps, 45 degree leg press 420 kilograms, 10 reps
i only said this so people could have an idea on my body condition as obviously training and nutrition would vary

i will be running
weeks 1-4 30mg dbol daily
weeks 1-10 500 test ethanate, i was thinking for 12 weeks?

On 07-01-2009, 06:51 AM your still 25yrs old and 88kgs but your lying arent you http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=393243

hey guys was gonna post this in the steroid picture area

but since i dont have photos i didnt lol

just curious questions, what colour is trenbelone ethanthate?

not looking for a specific colour but guideline

u c i had a mate who used trenbelone and his was a darker oil colour

ive just got my first batch off trenebelone ethanthate and its almost identical colour to my testerone ethanthate i previously had

just thought it was od

i trust my source since hes never given me fake gear

i just found it odd that my oils are such a similar colour to my testerone ethanthate

can anyone tell me whether their trenebelone ethanthate has generally been a light coloured oil similar to their testerone ethanthate

or are all ur tren oils a darker oil? or does it vary?

This is when you first got your Tren, a compound you said you never used, but again your lying, how old are you in this thread by the way??http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407348

hey guys

just started my second cycle

pinned twice since injected 4ml, and only had 3ml syringes, used 5/8 inch 25g needle

anyways both were deltoid shots


my problem was


first i injected testerone ethanthate 2mls

and then tren ethenthate 2ml

the tren went in all fine, little blood, no oil leak

however the testerone didnt

after the shot alot of blood came out and it seemed oily, so im guessing i didnt get much in

any info on why this happened

im thinking maybe my needle was to small, but from researching few websites they reccomended a 5/8inch size needle for delts

any opinions? or reasons why u think it happened?

second cycle tren and test was you lying or just playing building blocks here son?? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407510

in my second cycle and going to be running 800mg testerone cyp

was originally running 400 test
400 tren

but feel trens not the best way to go about for a second cycle

so ive dropped then tren and now just gonna run test


wanted opinions on how high people have run tests and did they see the added benefits from increasing the dosage


from the reading ive doen and research it seems up to 750mg is documented to keep on having a increasing anabolic effect, without diminishing returns

cant find any studies finding higher dosages then that

from peoples personal experiences, how high have you run test?

and did you see the added benefit when u uped the dosage?

second cycle tren and and now upped the test 800mgs lol, still lying or is this true??http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=409880

hey guys recently just got hands on some 50mg drols

wanted to use some of them in my cycle but as a pre workout sorta thing

currently on testerone cyp

ive used dbol before while on cycle, taken 1 hour before my workouts gave me thatll little boost in strength and good pumps

so i was thinking of implementing drol in the same manner

could someone tell me when they think would be the best time before my workout to take 1 50mg drol to help boost my workout performance

wanted to use it in this manner on my lagging body part days, probably at most 3 times a week for the extra boost

now adding drol to the mix lol http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=412076

okay well after doing my first cycle and having blood work done ive come out great, and kept almost all my gains

blood tests were done (thanks to my healthcare system it was free and so was the doctors consultation apointment)

told my doc i had used steroids so to look for anything that was out of ordinary or not in a safe or desirable range

EVERYTHING came out in averag range

only things that were below average was my white cell count, which doesnt fuss me coz all my life its been like that, genetics i guess

my blood pressure was low, again normal sinc ei was born with it

sodium levels below average, so he told me to increase my salt intake slightly

as for psycolically my sex drive is fine, no issues at all

alwise everything else came out OK

decided to pursue my second cycle since ive just about finished university exams and think this 3 month summer break would be the best time for me to cycle so it wont interfere with my studies next year, aswell as ill have plently of time to eat, train and rest

CYCLE consists of

800mg testerone cyp weekly

cycle will be 10-12 weeks, shall decide depending on my gains at that time

both esters will be frontloaded

STATS
height 5'11
bf%11-12 est
bodyweight 93.8kg
age: 19

On the 11-13-2009, 11:23 PM your 19yrs old 93 kg lol http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407512

The truth is you cant even speak the truth, you come here with your reckless advice but in reality your a young immature kid playing big boys games who cant even tell people the truth. So if that was your 2nd cycle what really is this cycle?

I cant even look at anymore of your posts, your that full of sh1t its painfull

You reckless, immature, a lair and plain ignorant

[terraj]

Glad someone said what Marcus did.

[stevey_6t9]

wow thats heavy..

[D7M]

[marcus300]

Oh and one more

lol its 7 sets actually
but its coz im on a gram of anabolics now, so i can recover from that type of workout, never use to be able to
and i stilll stand by 6 sets for biceps is to much for me, and 7 sets for triceps is still a fair bit for me, but being on a gram of anabolic seems to get rid of that overtraining issue



its something ive been doing last few weeks and has really worked for growth, just make sure u eat enough and allow enough recovery, u usally have to give an extra recovery day between my chest workout salso since my triceps usually still havent recovered

the long rests between sets i found are essential since it allows you to have time to gain ur energy back and allow your muscles to be ready for another set

In this thread you state your on a gram of anabolics 11-24-2009, 02:50 PM - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=409197

[stevey_6t9]

i think regarding the tren, he stopped it after a week or two therefore rounding off hes never tried it in a full cycle.

And age wise yes hes 19, but syaing your that age on here isnt going to get any of your questions answered so i guess lying was his best bet.

[ranging1]

And while i am at it, let see how much of a lying reckless kid you really are, lets look back over your threads and post, you say you never done tren do you!!



On 07-13-2009, 10:11 PM you stated you was 25yrs old http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=394512 but your lying arent you 18-19yrs old really...

^^^^ ur point here, obvioosuly i lied about my age, how else would i get advice in the beggining?



On 07-01-2009, 06:51 AM your still 25yrs old and 88kgs but your lying arent you http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=393243


^^^ again same point



This is when you first got your Tren, a compound you said you never used, but again your lying, how old are you in this thread by the way??http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407348

read my 2nd log and ull see i didnt use the tren, so yea this is poor evidence, i discontued it 2 weeks in coz i thought it was a bad idea,






second cycle tren and test was you lying or just playing building blocks here son?? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407510


^^^ read my log again,




second cycle tren and and now upped the test 800mgs lol, still lying or is this true??http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=409880

im not evening to bother explaining this one, read the log and ull see i dropped then tren and upped the test, so yea great arguement u have



now adding drol to the mix lol http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=412076


didnt add the drol again, never got my hands on it




On the 11-13-2009, 11:23 PM your 19yrs old 93 kg lol http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=407512

The truth is you cant even speak the truth, you come here with your reckless advice but in reality your a young immature kid playing big boys games who cant even tell people the truth. So if that was your 2nd cycle what really is this cycle?

I cant even look at anymore of your posts, your that full of sh1t is painfull

You reckless, immature, a lair and plain ignorant

im not even going to bother argueing with you marcus, you find a few posts you think make ur arguement bullet proof, when really thier nothing but a few posts when i ask for advice on whether or no to use compounds

well done hero

this is public forum, i dont need to lie about my steroid usage, i use this forum as a resource,

if you have such a problem with me why do you even bother trying to keep correcting me, all you do is make this board look worse, and use weak arguements such a posts,

why not just PM me

[ranging1]

Oh and one more



In this thread you state your on a gram of anabolics 11-24-2009, 02:50 PM - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=409197

its a summary marcus, like im going to explain my exact cycle in a normal thread everytime i post, its a guideline to whta im using

well doen to you again

[ranging1]

i think regarding the tren, he stopped it after a week or two therefore rounding off hes never tried it in a full cycle.

And age wise yes hes 19, but syaing your that age on here isnt going to get any of your questions answered so i guess lying was his best bet.

thnaks stevey glad someone listens

[HustlerBrah]

[ranging1]

lmfao love you baby cakes

[ranging1]

btw marcus i think its cute how you have all the time to go searching for all my threads and posts to try find some dirt on me

ur life must really be eventful and meaningful

well done sir

im done with this thread,

btw i found it funny how 'merc' got banned, you did a great job their aswell

l8rz

[marcus300]

btw marcus i think its cute how you have all the time to go searching for all my threads and posts to try find some dirt on me

ur life must really be eventful and meaningful

well done sir

im done with this thread,

btw i found it funny how 'merc' got banned, you did a great job their aswell

l8rz

All because you got owned lol

Your a lair and anyone cant look back over your thread and see your full of it there are lairs everywhere.

You need to turn around go downstairs and tell your mum you have been naughty and you need to go on the naughty step for a few days lol


ps, here is admins quote regarding Merc, silly boy

Just to make things perfectly clear... anyone ever wanting to know answers to this or any other type of question can pm me at anytime... Many of you know that as you have pm'd me and been given an honest answer there is nothing to hide... and I take full credit for anyone who was affected by my allowing a second chance to someone who was not to be trusted with information that was both sensitive and personal... to each of you and you know who you are I am sorry... I was fooled twice by him sad to say...

Now as for your answer no he was not banned because of copying and pasting and that is not what marcus was saying... however I can see where you could get that... and it was not for taking credit for anyone else's writings... it was that he was put in a trusted position and gave out private and sensitive information that he then gained access to via pms and those persons in turn contacted myself and other HOF and Vets via pm (forwarded original pms) and were rightfully upset... hence he was banned...

btw this has happened in the past and I do feel that I made an error in judgment by allowing him to come back... he does bring good articles I agree however anyone can paste them here so please feel free when you find a helpful article to do so... giving full credit to the writer of course...


Hope this help those that are curious about merc... and remember in the future to just send a pm I have no reason to not answer you... ask around I generally get back to everyone it may take a day or two if busy but I do try to return all of them...


Much Respect

*admin*

so please dont try and divert the issue of you looking like a lying baby

[D7M]

btw marcus i think its cute how you have all the time to go searching for all my threads and posts to try find some dirt on me

ur life must really be eventful and meaningful

well done sir

im done with this thread,

btw i found it funny how 'merc' got banned, you did a great job their aswell

l8rz

You really shouldn't speak on things you don't know the whole story on.

[Mooseman33]

great job marcus.

this kid is reckless, he gives some of the worst advice and thinks he is a know it all.
once someone has been proven to be a liar, time and time again, they loose all credibility.

and for the love of god, i hate when people reference the pro BB's when defending the gear they run.

Again, great job Marcus, that was very "BIG" like......