Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    cj1capp's Avatar
    cj1capp is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,271

    Lightbulb Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron

    I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


    I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

    [Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron
    A basic guide for the lazy man

    There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin , but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    60mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
    • Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg’s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3
    HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.

    Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 6/20/05)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    2,393
    The original post in the sticky was totally removed by the original poster, so having the post as a sticky didn't make sense anymore. Here's what the post was:

    http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...38&postcount=1

    Since it didn't make sense to have that as a sticky, it was removed.

  3. #3
    InsaneInTheMembrane's Avatar
    InsaneInTheMembrane is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The Nut House
    Posts
    2,139
    Blog Entries
    8
    I hope Redbaron has his updated version out soon (and re-make it a sticky)....otherwise we'll just have to keep bumping this thread for people to read!

    cheers

  4. #4
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
    Doc.Sust is offline Retired "hall of famer/elite powerlifter"
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    a van down by the river!
    Posts
    11,248
    i hope when he does re write this it is made a sticky

  5. #5
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    7,795
    Red isn't gone, he is still around. He is having troubles connecting to this site and a few other sites too. Once that issue is resolved you will see him online a lot more.

    -Gear

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Gym
    Posts
    302
    Hey there guys!

    Gear has the scoop right. What has happened to me is that I "upgraded" to a higher speed DSL connection at home a few months back. Since then, I haven't been able to get on to AR and about 3-4 other forums that I used to check in with regularly. I have put a bug in my providers ear on several occasions, but to date they haven't fixed anything for me.

    At home I had rewritten and updated a few guides that had been up for a long while. I thought I had successfully transferred them to a flash key disk, and brought them to one of my offices to attempt the update, since it just didn't seem like it was happening from home anytime soon. I pasted the new guides over the old, but after doing so I realized I had the wrong files ... thus the update coming soon in place of the existing guides. I figured that was better than an unrelated topic pasted in error.

    At both of my offices, they have updated the network to monitor usage pretty closely, so I have for the most part avoided getting on the forums too much from them. I will try in the near future to get the guides (old or new) and a working connection to this forum in the same room at the same time. When I get that going, I will get the guides back up and online.

    Well, until then (or until I figure out what my DSL providers deal is), I had better be off for now. Everyone stay safe and take care. Hope to be more present in the near future.

  7. #7
    cj1capp's Avatar
    cj1capp is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,271
    Quote Originally Posted by cj1capp
    I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


    I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

    [Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron
    A basic guide for the lazy man

    There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin , but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    60mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
    • Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg’s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3
    HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.

    Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 6/20/05)
    the controversy grows!

  8. #8
    peace_frog's Avatar
    peace_frog is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    trash can alley, VT
    Posts
    198
    Ive had trouble with hypo glycemia in my life time, so I woudnt want to mess with slin. I saw you gave an alternative of dextrose and whey iso. Would any of the "insulin mimicers" be a good choice post work out( ie r-ala, things like that)? Also , if you dont throw test into the mix, what kind of results might you see with this stack?(assuming a 20 wk stack no slin) I can get the hgh and igf, but Im hurting in the AS department.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Gym
    Posts
    302
    Here is the latest iteration of this post just for anyone interested ... not that it is really too different from the original. Little prettier with the bolds and italics though

    Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Insulin – by RedBaron
    A basic peptide cycle guide for the lazy man


    There are volumes of studies available regarding the use of HGH, IGF-1 (and all its variants), and Insulin, but for the most part coming up with a good cycle incorporating all of these is a tedious process and requires more of an investment in time pouring over studies and other reading than most people wish to invest. The following is put forth as a basic guide. It is meant to be a quick and simple reference as to what a cycle including all three of these components might look like and a brief description of the action of each of the components. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide, a technical document, nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results. Myself and several athletes and all levels of competition have used the basic cycle principles below with good success over the last few years. You will certainly want to tweak this for your particular application, but this should at least get you headed in the right direction.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 3 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 3 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 3 IU’s 1-2 p.m. or pre-workout (or IM post-workout with your insulin if preferred)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, and upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    80 – 100 mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non-workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8 – 12 IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrient Routine
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following in exacting fashion -
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 7 grams of dextrose per IU of Insulin. (If you don’t wish to split the shakes, add the whey isolate described as well here for a single shake).
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 65g of whey isolate protein in water (skip if taken with above)
    • Injection + 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another 30g or so whey isolate protein drink with this meal if you have tore down sufficient muscle groups to utilize this without it being stored as fat)
    (i.e. – two boneless, skinless chicken breasts baked or grilled, a serving of brown rice, sweet potatoes, or pasta, with green beans)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. . Lack of attention to detail in this area can end in a nice ambulance ride, a visit to the hospital or even a one-way trip to the morgue. Be ready and act smart. The price of stupidity is really, really high.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 or T4 - Every Day
    one of the following –
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs T3 taken once each day
    -or –
    • 100 mcgs T4 taken once each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue and use only during the weeks of LR3 injections to avoid any potential negative impact to our IGF levels by increased IGF binding proteins. The 13 amino acid side chain of LR3 IGF-1 has specifically been engineered to resist being impressed by or bound to IGFBP’s, so any increase in the below ramp up/down will not kill your IGF levels. A reasonable dose AAS component of the cycle will further protect lean tissue from being used for fuel. In absence of these above-mentioned components, you won’t want to run your T3 above 50mcgs per day. It will begin to elevate IGFBP’s and will dismantle and burn through hard-earned muscle proteins quicker than you could imagine.]

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-8 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce an average of 6 or so pulses of GH per day, the mega pulse being 2 hours after we fall asleep. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that as suggested by a couple of studies will suppress these pulses for an approximate 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night, as well as blunting the effects of cortisol, the two biggest peaks of which are occurring at these same times (early morning, early afternoon).

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute necessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, CTS, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small-localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be a key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so our addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound by binding proteins, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (probable half life of approximately 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little if any of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in other parts of the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 100 - 300 mcg’s (in some cases more) bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours (if not days), and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth and other medical recovery purposes subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot for a couple of weeks if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for our purposes of muscle growth anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with my workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results. I would suggest that you inject between 80 – 120 mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    The added bonus of using LR3 in our cycle is that fat loss will be accomplished while still eating a great number of clean calories per day. You will visibly see yourself leaning out from a couple of weeks in on while using LR3 at doses suggested here.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes our muscles to end up in a catabolic state after a good hammering. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's action of interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors after action on the liver. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 6-12IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it subQ or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 4IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your desired 8-12IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-12 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3 or T4
    HGH can (but certainly not universally) have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 or T4 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, and coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. While many profess they don’t suffer from this rebound problem, I can personally attest to MANY that do. If you don’t have a desire to find out whether you are one of the lucky ones or not, consider the ramp up/down to minimize the rebound. It is a real bummer to lose a bunch of fat only to pack it right back on because your metabolism is in the toilet for many weeks post thyroid cycling. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue (muscle proteins are really attractive, easy marks), so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs of T3 or 100mcgs of T4 per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs of T3 or 200mcgs of T4 or above - at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly enough to be a consideration) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein synthesis, 12.5mcg of T3 or 50mcgs of T4 will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or T4 at doses above 100mcgs or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 or T4 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the basic peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your preferred anabolic portion of the cycle –a simple testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) or a more complex cycle. In either event, add something along those lines and you have a great combination that can be tailored for whatever your goals may be.

    I hope this guide helps get you going on the right path. Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 1/15/07)

  10. #10
    GearIdentity is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    212
    Hi,

    My question is regarding 3rd dose. Ive had great results with 4ius AM, 4ius early PM (preworkout), slin postworkout. I will be increasing my daily hgh dose to 10ius in my current cycle. I thought maybe adding it with my slin pw...

    8:00AM 3.33ius + 100mcg T4
    2:00PM 3.33ius preworkout
    4:00PM 3.33ius postworkout + 10ius humalog

    Thank You Redbaron!

  11. #11
    Peace Missile's Avatar
    Peace Missile is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Gym
    Posts
    123

    sorry

    ..sorry edited!
    Last edited by Peace Missile; 10-29-2010 at 05:50 AM.

  12. #12
    elendil is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    30
    good luck sir

  13. #13
    Granovich's Avatar
    Granovich is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA-New Jersey
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by GearIdentity View Post
    Hi,

    My question is regarding 3rd dose. Ive had great results with 4ius AM, 4ius early PM (preworkout), slin postworkout. I will be increasing my daily hgh dose to 10ius in my current cycle. I thought maybe adding it with my slin pw...

    8:00AM 3.33ius + 100mcg T4
    2:00PM 3.33ius preworkout
    4:00PM 3.33ius postworkout + 10ius humalog

    Thank You Redbaron!
    thats a good question. im interested in the answer as well!

  14. #14
    Anxnymous's Avatar
    Anxnymous is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    212
    Just gonna bump this thread-
    I'm looking to follow this but I cant figure out how to do the dosages following this.
    When I start it will be at 2.5 iu's first 5 weeks then ramp up. 5 each week, but when I get over 3iu's how would I inject? Some weeks its just one shot of GH a day but when you get over 3iu's you're suppose to split dosages, so do you still split the dosages once you're past 3iu's or do you do it all in one pin? (I.e. week 11- 6iu's-one shot first thing in the morning? Or, week 11- 6iu's-first thing in morning and early afternoon)

  15. #15
    wheels27 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    41
    Bump

  16. #16
    xthedukex is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    390
    good reading !!

  17. #17
    mrlittleman is online now Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    88
    Would it be ok to go super simple, and just do say 2ui of hgh open waking and 4ui of slin, then also post workout, 2ui hgh 4ui slin. Then up the slin to 6-8ui. I want to keep it simple unlike basskiller preworkout intraworkout and post bs...... ???

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •