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Thread: Tamoxifen (Nolva) + Anastrozole (Arimidex)

  1. #1
    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Tamoxifen (Nolva) + Anastrozole (Arimidex)

    Hello guys,

    Is it ok to take both at the same time for the gyno (mammary tissue)? I read that nolva blocks the receptors in the breast tissue, but it raises estrogen up to 300% (read a study) in other parts of the body. So I was wondering if I could take both, so that arimidex would control the total estrogen to avoid any possible rebound after discontinuing.

    I was thinking about:

    Day 1-7, Arimidex 0,25mg EOD

    Day 8-35, Arimidex 0,25mg EOD, Nolva 10-20mg ED

    Day 36-49, Arimidex 0,25mg EOD

    I would do the BW after 3 weeks and adjust if necessary.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    just to clarify . Nolvadex does NOT raise estrogen per se , IT IS ESTROGEN . its just a very non estrogenic form of estrogen that has a very strong binding affinity to certain receptors in the body. so it , being estrogen, will bind to receptors in breast tissue AS an actual estrogen, but its an estrogen that does not illicit any estrogenic effects. so it "occupies" these receptors in place of a stronger form of estrogen like E2.

    can your blood serum levels of estrogen be elevated when taking Nolva.. yeah sure. but thats not a problem. because the receptors are getting blocked , or "occupied", and the estrogenic effects themselves are not taking place.

    can you add an AI ? sure.. but those come with their own side effects. over do it and you'll wind up having gyno plus a non functioning penis, brain fog and extreme lethargy . nolva alone is by far much safer. IF you were on cycle , Nolva and Masteron together are the best combo.


    just be aware.. taking an AI when you have no exogenous androgens coming in can lead to a host of problems.

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    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks GearHeaded for this explanation.

    So, if I understand you correctly, there is no need to ad AI... What happens with the excess of estrogen, when discontinuing Nolvadex then?

    Is there any way of knowing how much of AI is too much?

    I am not using any androgens, I actually have low T, normal E2 and slight gyno with lactation.

  4. #4
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    ok so there is no 'excess estrogen" if you don't have any exogenous test coming in, and your in pct and your natty test is crashed as well.
    you don't have any aromatization hardly happening at all. so there is not going to be any excess or any new estrogen really even coming in. which is why an AI would be pointless really and risk crashing the little estrogen you do have.

    in fact your symptoms may not be all that "high" estrogen related at all.. many guys get gyno symptoms or high estrogen symptoms, even though E levels are normal, simply because they no longer have enough androgens to off set things. if your estrogen to androgen ratio is way off (meaning androgens are lower then estrogen), then that will cause E like symptoms.

    this is why guys, may often times run things like Halotestin at the first signs of gyno. because its a very very potent androgen. also why Masteron helps (its not only androgenic but its specifically made to blunt receptors in the breast .. thats why its called MASTeron , "mast" means "breast'').

    so again,, you'd hate to think that you have estrogen problems (which is not likely cause you don't have any testosterone to convert to estrogen in the first place) and throw an AI at the problem , and end up making things worse.

    start with the basics . 40mg of Nolva for 7 days then drop to 20mg and just see what happens . but again IF your androgen levels are super low or non existent, its doing to take some time to off set things until your androgen levels get elevated.

    if you have low T to begin with, you'd probably be better off and healthier blasting and cruising then messing with PCT though

  5. #5
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    what was the last cycle you did

  6. #6
    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks GearHeaded.

    So I'll try to be as short as possible.

    First cycle: July-Sep 2015, Test.Enanthate 500mg/week (12 weeks) + Week 7-12 30mg Winstrol ED, PCT only nolva 40/40/20/20

    I think I didn't recover well, because I felt low energy and sleepy all the time, so I jumped back on in April 2016. I never did the blood work. I was stupid and didn't do my research. My hormones were probably a mess at this point already.

    So in April 2016 I jumped back on 500mg Test.Enanthate and noticed nipple pain and a lump almost immediately, so I lowered the dose to 250mg/week and took some Arimidex for two weeks I think. It resolved, pain went away and lump also. I stayed on Testo since then, until I wanted to stop in 2017 when I also opened this thread: https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...lp-needed.html (At this point I was already lactating, probably for a long time, I just didn't know.)

    After some advice there, I lowered my dose to 125mg/week, started HCG 250IU 3x/week (used 5000IU) and then did Clomid and Nolva. I think 75/75/50/50 and 40/40/20/20. Can't say for sure, I didn't keep log. I ended with this in April last year.

    Since then, I've been living my "Low T, low libido, transparent sperm, milky breasts" life. (Year and a half)

    I started looking for medical help in November last year. Been to many many Doctors. Was on Caber Therapy (April-September) for Prolactin, because it was thought that it's the one causing the lactation, but it turns out it isn't. I was lactating the whole time on caber and still am. I have another thread about all this, just not getting any more input there:https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...power-pct.html

    So that's it. I never recovered and I don't know what to do. Doctors don't know either (at least not the ones I've met).

    On top of that, I've recently had a nipple pain again and a lump. I thought it was because of the prolactin raising back, but it was still in range, so I have no clue what was/is happening. The pain went away though, but the lump stayed. Mammography confirmed some tissue.

    That's the whole story.

  7. #7
    5millionbucks is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    Thanks GearHeaded.

    So I'll try to be as short as possible.

    First cycle: July-Sep 2015, Test.Enanthate 500mg/week (12 weeks) + Week 7-12 30mg Winstrol ED, PCT only nolva 40/40/20/20

    I think I didn't recover well, because I felt low energy and sleepy all the time, so I jumped back on in April 2016. I never did the blood work. I was stupid and didn't do my research. My hormones were probably a mess at this point already.

    So in April 2016 I jumped back on 500mg Test.Enanthate and noticed nipple pain and a lump almost immediately, so I lowered the dose to 250mg/week and took some Arimidex for two weeks I think. It resolved, pain went away and lump also. I stayed on Testo since then, until I wanted to stop in 2017 when I also opened this thread: https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...lp-needed.html (At this point I was already lactating, probably for a long time, I just didn't know.)
    After some advice there, I lowered my dose to 125mg/week, started HCG 250IU 3x/week (used 5000IU) and then did Clomid and Nolva. I think 75/75/50/50 and 40/40/20/20. Can't say for sure, I didn't keep log. I ended with this in April last year.

    Since then, I've been living my "Low T, low libido, transparent sperm, milky breasts" life. (Year and a half)

    I started looking for medical help in November last year. Been to many many Doctors. Was on Caber Therapy (April-September) for Prolactin, because it was thought that it's the one causing the lactation, but it turns out it isn't. I was lactating the whole time on caber and still am. I have another thread about all this, just not getting any more input there:https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...power-pct.html

    So that's it. I never recovered and I don't know what to do. Doctors don't know either (at least not the ones I've met).

    On top of that, I've recently had a nipple pain again and a lump. I thought it was because of the prolactin raising back, but it was still in range, so I have no clue what was/is happening. The pain went away though, but the lump stayed. Mammography confirmed some tissue.

    That's the whole story.

    Damn man; thats why prebloods are needed before cycle at all time. I think the test e you had or whatever test you were taking were contaminated with something else; shit happens. I would stay away from gear unless you already have kids or dont plan on having kids and just stay on for the rest of your life. Or you can get surgery and get rid of that extra breast tissue and see from their.

  8. #8
    Windex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5millionbucks View Post
    Damn man; thats why prebloods are needed before cycle at all time. I think the test e you had or whatever test you were taking were contaminated with something else; shit happens. I would stay away from gear unless you already have kids or dont plan on having kids and just stay on for the rest of your life. Or you can get surgery and get rid of that extra breast tissue and see from their.
    Contamination would've caused infection / abcess and put him in the ER for antibiotics, not create lactation years later.

    Telling him to stay away from gear is also nonsensical when the root cause hasn't even been determined and he may very well need gear (HRT) for the rest of his life.

    Stop posting nonsense on topics you have zero understanding about. Thousands of people read this board and spreading misinformation is both irresponsible and dangerous.
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  9. #9
    5millionbucks is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Contamination would've caused infection / abcess and put him in the ER for antibiotics, not create lactation years later.

    Telling him to stay away from gear is also nonsensical when the root cause hasn't even been determined and he may very well need gear (HRT) for the rest of his life.

    Stop posting nonsense on topics you have zero understanding about. Thousands of people read this board and spreading misinformation is both irresponsible and dangerous.
    Contamination meaning some asshole could of sold him a mix to deca /test or tren /test(which I've seen some sources even very reputable ones do before based on lab testing). So why don't he just see what his endo does.I feel really bad for OP I really do but going this route is clearly a gamble on one's body depending on their genetics; but you telling him he needs to hop on gear is the solution and answer; and BTW read everything before you post Windex I clearly told OP hop on trt for the rest of his life is another option. But I think he needs to find the root of the problem first before hoping on TRT; so what do you suggest Windex ?? I agree with Gearheaded maybe go on Nolva see what that does; also OP do you have precycle bloods? Like did you have low t to begin with before you started your test cycle? Me personally I would just shoot test and be on for the rest of my life; a year and half feeling depressed with low libido fuck that I salute OP for lasting this long; I also have low t to begin with based on my prebloods.
    Last edited by 5millionbucks; 11-14-2019 at 09:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    No, sadly I don't have BW before my first cycle. But I think I was ok. I had no trouble being lean, with decent mass. 86-88kg, around 12% BF @ 6ft Height.

    I also think my gear was ok. At least the Testo. Not sure about the Wini. I gained about 7kg and stayed lean or got even leaner. I was a beast ))))

    But everything went sideways after that. I think I fucked up for not using HCG on my first cycle. Stupid ass. Nolva was probably just not enough. Or I didn't give myself enough time to recover. Although I was off for 5 months after that.

    So yeah, who knows.

    Let's not argue here tho. I think Windex never advised me to hop on the gear, he advised me against it. I think what he meant was, that after I resolve my boob problem, I will probably need HRT/TRT. Not now.

    So I want to start Nolva today. Just not sure if I should go PCT dose like 40/40/20/20 or 10/10/10/10/10/10. I am leaning more towards second option.

  11. #11
    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    So, I started Nolva. I will be taking 10mg ED. The plan is six weeks, but will see. Would have a few questions for you guys...

    1. Should I be worried about the potentialy elevated estradiol from Nolva?
    2. Can Nolva indirectly cause elevated prolactin? Elevated Estradiol = Elevated Prolactin??
    3. Should I do BW now, in between or after the therapy?

    Cheers

  12. #12
    Windex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    So, I started Nolva. I will be taking 10mg ED. The plan is six weeks, but will see. Would have a few questions for you guys...

    1. Should I be worried about the potentialy elevated estradiol from Nolva?
    2. Can Nolva indirectly cause elevated prolactin? Elevated Estradiol = Elevated Prolactin??
    3. Should I do BW now, in between or after the therapy?

    Cheers
    1. No
    2. No
    3. 5 Weeks after Tamoxifen is discontinued

    I would wager you might want 15-20mg for 6 weeks rather than 10mg.
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    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    1. No
    2. No
    3. 5 Weeks after Tamoxifen is discontinued

    I would wager you might want 15-20mg for 6 weeks rather than 10mg.
    Thank you. Will do.

  14. #14
    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi guys.

    I was just reading this sticky thread about the PCT here on the forum: https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...ct-thread.html

    In the first post from the OP, there is this paragraph, saying...


    "What might a typical PCT look like?
    Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)

    Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.

    What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.

    Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate."


    Does this only apply, if you are experiencing gyno on those two compounds? (Superdrol and pheraplex)

    This kinda scared me, being on the nolva for the gyno symptoms at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    Hi guys.

    I was just reading this sticky thread about the PCT here on the forum: https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-...ct-thread.html

    In the first post from the OP, there is this paragraph, saying...


    "What might a typical PCT look like?
    Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)

    Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.

    What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.

    Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate."


    Does this only apply, if you are experiencing gyno on those two compounds? (Superdrol and pheraplex)

    This kinda scared me, being on the nolva for the gyno symptoms at the moment.
    keep in mind that he starts out by recommending Nolvadex for 6 weeks as the basis for PCT..

    when he moves on to talking about not using nolvadex with progestin based compounds, he is mistaken on two parts, one being the old bro myth that nolva can't be used with 19 nors (progestins) and two he referred to superdrol as a progestin when its not, its a dht.

    I would disregard a lot of what was said here. in your situation nolvadex is likely one of the best things to take

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    this is my most blunt advice . if your natty test levels are basically crashed and you need to be on TRT , then I wouldn't waste my time with pct protools . I'd get on 150mg a week of test, 350mg of mast, and then run 20mg of nolva and 10mg a day of Halotestin (and if sex drive is an issue still, add in some proviron and cialis). within 3-4 weeks your gyno issues will likely subside, your sex drive through the roof, and you'll feel like a beast.. then come off and just cruise on a little bit of test

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    Bjorg89 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    this is my most blunt advice . if your natty test levels are basically crashed and you need to be on TRT , then I wouldn't waste my time with pct protools . I'd get on 150mg a week of test, 350mg of mast, and then run 20mg of nolva and 10mg a day of Halotestin (and if sex drive is an issue still, add in some proviron and cialis). within 3-4 weeks your gyno issues will likely subside, your sex drive through the roof, and you'll feel like a beast.. then come off and just cruise on a little bit of test
    Thanks for the input GearHeaded. I don't know if I have to be on TRT yet. My levels are chrashed, but I was hoping to try restarting my HPTA, before going on TRT.

    I had a debate in my other thread (wrote about it in the post #6) about, whether I should do a Power PCT or some kind of restart protocol for my HPTA, due to having a low T.

    But there is also this other lactating problem that I have and to make it all worse, I got gyno symptoms recently.

    So that's why I decided to go with the Nolva.

    I would love to hop back on the testo and drive my levels into the sky and feel like a beast, but I was thinking to give myself a chance of recovery and see if I can get on my normal T levels naturally.

    I wrote a lab and managed to get some BW from year 2013, when I was all natty. I assume that's total T. Seems good.

    Estradiol: 23,5 ng/L -----> 7,6 - 42 ng/L
    Testosteron: 6,55 ng/L -----> 2,8 - 8 ng/L

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