How to grow the chest?

[TinTin78]

I seem to have trouble growing good size in the chest. I do them 2 times a week right now, mondays hard chest training and friday only 2 exercises. I have very easy to develop more arms and shoulders and I really want more chest. I am doing 6-8 reps right now but I am open for suggestions as I am clueless right now. So some good exercises and the way to do them and for how many reps and so on would be appreciated.

Thank's

[novastepp]

could you post your current routine...

[ToTheBuckeT21]

yea we gotta know what your doin now to improve on anything

[ToTheBuckeT21]

I do flat bench, flat flys, incline bench, incline flys, cable flys (for decline) and dips. I get pretty good size like that.. other then the top of my chest i feel is laggin for whatever reason.

[TinTin78]

sure, I have a pretty tough chest training at the moment,

Flat Benchpress 3 sets, 6-8 reps
Incline dumbell press 3 sets, 6-8 reps
flat flyes 3 sets, 12 reps
standing flyes version, like an uppercut? with both hands, 3 sets, 12 reps
and often finnish with some pullovers 3 sets, 12 reps

that is the monday, on friday I only do flat benchpress and incline dumbellpress, 3 sets, for 6-8 reps.

I am in my 9th week test cyp/deca and I am getting kinda nervous not being able to get the chest were I want, everything else is responding great.

[novastepp]

IMO here is what i would say to you, why are you doing flies? some guys get results while others do not. i do not see it as a mass building exercise. that is why i ask. I would say do flat BB bench, Incline DB press, Decline DB press, Close Grip Bench and leave it. Then after a few weeks maybe switch it up to Flat DB presses with Incline and Decline BB press. if you want to do something another day of the week do some stretching, flexing and rotator cuff movements, with maybe a set of flies to aid the stretch. but i think less is more ESPECIALLY on gear...this is again, my $.02

[TinTin78]

So you say I should do both wide grip BB bench and small grip BB bench?

[ToTheBuckeT21]

I do flys as a warm up for each workout.. You can also try to throw in some flat bench negatives.. i always loved negatives

[ToTheBuckeT21]

i thought close grip bench was more for tris

[J-Dogg]

Close is more tri,

Like T21 suggested, negs work great. Try drop sets also. I alternate each week.

Normal work out week1
Week 2 I do drops, smoke'm good, you'll get hella pumped and never want to put on a shirt.

[TinTin78]

Do you think it's good to train them 2 times a week like I do now? Or am I only overtraining them they way I do. I want them to catch up with the rest, that's why I put it in twice a week.

[J-Dogg]

IMO over training is really over extagerated most the time.

2 times a week would be fine if you make sure your diet is in check. Just make sure your getting enough protien and calories to support working them twice a week.

Don't quit trying to make those other parts grow though, your chest will catch up.

[l2elapse]

I work out chest twice a week, and i love it. Usually on Day 2 and Day 5, and it feels i get enough rest to build it up bigger. Have you ever tried half moon dips? works well for me

[TinTin78]

No never tried moon dips, what is that?

I appreciate all help, this board is amazing and the people on it, keep it up.

[TinTin78]

I think I will also try to stop doing to much finetune exercises and go for more basic stuff like nova said. I need both upper and lower development, so I will go for 2 incline exercises, 2 flat and maybe 1 decline then.

[timtim]

flies are the main mass builder for chest because its practically an isolation movement which you can go very heavy on. pressing movements stimulate the shoulders, tris, and back alot. also, look at the way the muscle contracts. charles poliquin makes great points about this in his book poliquin principles where he talks about the shape of the muscle and the manner in which it contracts. pressing movements do not mimic the way the pec muscle contracts from insertion to insertion whereas fly movements are nearly identical. check out the literature. i think his web page is elite fitness systems (not elite fitness the aas board). his theories are very sound and all backed by scientific research. check it out.

[novastepp]

i thought close grip bench was more for tris

Yes, it is...
But incorporating tris more means they help your bench. And tri's are a MAJOR part of pressing. so therefore, you can press more weight.

[novastepp]

Do you think it's good to train them 2 times a week like I do now? Or am I only overtraining them they way I do. I want them to catch up with the rest, that's why I put it in twice a week.

Put your balls on the table once a week and really show your chest some HAVOC! do this with full blown intenisty and i bet you are still sore the day you would normally do chest again...

[novastepp]

flies are the main mass builder for chest because its practically an isolation movement which you can go very heavy on. pressing movements stimulate the shoulders, tris, and back alot. also, look at the way the muscle contracts. charles poliquin makes great points about this in his book poliquin principles where he talks about the shape of the muscle and the manner in which it contracts. pressing movements do not mimic the way the pec muscle contracts from insertion to insertion whereas fly movements are nearly identical. check out the literature. i think his web page is elite fitness systems (not elite fitness the aas board). his theories are very sound and all backed by scientific research. check it out.

I do not agree because compound movements involve more mass building, and you even stated that it is an isolation movement. I do believe flies are one of the best shaping exercises for chest, but I never had success with it as a mass builder.

[novastepp]

I think I will also try to stop doing to much finetune exercises and go for more basic stuff like nova said. I need both upper and lower development, so I will go for 2 incline exercises, 2 flat and maybe 1 decline then.

I would say that would be better. here is what i had just finished doing for 4 weeks (chest/tri).

begin with cable cross over *for stretching only*
2 warm up sets for flat BB
1 warm up set for each the incline and decine DB

Flat BB Bench
Incline DB Press
Decline DB Press
Dips
Close Grip Bench
Overhead One-armed Tricep DB Ext. * these have worked well for me in the past and they are a personel preference*

[timtim]

nova

you dont believe in working antagonistic muscle groups? chest/tris is pretty old school considering that the tris and cns will be taxed by the chest routine which was finished first. you dont believe in the push/pull theory?

i mean in my case, when i do weighted dips and such, i usually have between 60 and 120 pounds around my waist. close grip bench i would get up to 275 or so (low reps). all this after chest would be a moot point because i wouldnt be able to push any harder. i would actually think this could lead more to injuries or over use injuries. i may be reading it wrong though. do you mean doing these muscle groups for hypertrophy reps or max effort? i guess if your working 8 to 12 reps, fatigue would set in but the workout would be manageable. but if your talking power routines i would be interested to hear how you do these workouts and are able to finish them.

not questioning your info here, just curious to hear others opinions and routines.

[novastepp]

I do working sets of 8, 6, 4 reps. last two sets are til failure. on every exercise listed. dips are done with added weight.

kind of funny you should mention the antagonist thing because recently i had a thread about it. after my next 4 week switch up, i am actually going to try chest/bi & back/tri. i have never done it before. so i hope to get great gains from it for it being my first time. have you ever done such a split TimTim, and if you have what was it like and did you have success with it?

[timtim]

my split is ALWAYS the same, schedule reasons:
bi's/tri's
chest/traps
shoulders/back
*cant do anything but deadlifts for lower body, have previous injuries that make squats, lunges, leg press, too painful - refuse to be a leg extension/curl guy
cardio: love to walk uphill, do 5 sessions a week, times and intervals vary, usually do 5 hours a week - keeps the legs in nice shape since i cant use free weights

the best way that i found works for me is to go an exercise of bi's then of tri's and continue to alternate. same with all the other body parts too. i use a zig zag training approach for my routines (figured i'd explain how i utilize the training with alternating muscle groups). i have 4 routines set up: a tempo rotuine where all sets are 8 reps and the tempo will vary but all sets are slow concentric and eccentric, 12 to 15 rep phase, mainly a high rep hypertrophy session with drop sets and super sets included, strict hypertrophy, all sets 8 reps with the heaviest weight i can handle for all 8 reps every set, and the power phase, 3 to 5 reps. every week i have a different regiment for each body part. i've been training with this schedule for the last 5 or 6 years. i have just begun the zig zag approach after using micro cycles for the last 5 to 6 years. the micro cycles were rep and set oriented and worked in 3 week phases comprising 12 weeks in total for an entire cycle. i think you'll like this approach when you try it, you can push harder in my opinion.

[l2elapse]

half moon dips are dips but instead of having the knees bent and away, you put them tilted forward and lean forward, it its like a half moon, and keep the elbows wide for maximum chest development. they are so much harder than regular and work far better

[helium3]

decline is the most effective at recruiting the maximum amount of fibres,weighted dips are fantastic done correctly,but it is also a genetic thing and theres not a lot you can do about genetics except keep on training hard

[novastepp]

decline is the most effective at recruiting the maximum amount of fibres,weighted dips are fantastic done correctly,but it is also a genetic thing and theres not a lot you can do about genetics except keep on training hard

why do you say decline is most effective? arguments started because they say that the shoulders are almost completely taken out of the movement. what is your take on why it is effective Helium3?

[pelly789]

working chest twice a week is pointless if you can do chest on day 2 and 5 like someone said they did your not training hard enough, once a week per muscle group is enough especially for mass, also i agree with nova that flies arent a big mass builder, its an isolation movement and for mass you want heavy compound lifts im not saying not to do flies because i do but i dont rely on them for building up more chest its more for definition for me my advice for chest would just stick do the basics doing

flat bb bench press
inlcline bb bench press
incline/flat db bench press
flies at the end

just my opinon though

[helium3]

why do you say decline is most effective? arguments started because they say that the shoulders are almost completely taken out of the movement. what is your take on why it is effective Helium3?

there are many studies but this one i had bookmarked so have a look.

[helium3]

sxxt the link: http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/mark4.htm

[novastepp]

i think you forgot to post it bro...
nevermind i didn't see it...maybe i should get my eyes checked

[helium3]

what ya think?
note: press one arm in an incline to the wall feel your chest youll feel that its just th upper flexing,now push your fist down into your knee or something you can now feel most of the chest flexing,a bit of a cheesy experiment but i think it holds true.