I**mfkr (please read)

[tard_zone]

I am going to try working out EOD and keep track of my progress and lifting intensely. You base a lot of your information on Mike Mentzer and I researched Mike and he truely is a smart guy. I constructed a new routine and would like to start this monday so I'd appreciate your input prior to monday so I can start my new plan.

Day 1 - Chest, Triceps
Day 2 - Recovery
Day 3 - Back, Biceps
Day 4 - Recovery
Day 5 - Legs, lower back
Day 6 - Recovery
Day 7 - Shoulder, Traps, Forearm, Abs
Day 8 - Recovery
Day 9 - Repeat

I have a few questions:

1. The muscles I train together, are they correctly placed?
2. How many reps and sets do you do, and how much resting time between sets? (I know reps and sets vary per muscle group, but I'd like just an "average")
3. 45 minutes is tops as far as time spent lifting?
4. How many exercises per muscle, because seeing how before I could do biceps only for an hour and now splitting it with my back an even larger muscle group, I can see how it might be difficult to shorten my workouts.

Also are there any other lifting techniques with a HIT program, like lifting slowly?

Thank you very much I**mfkr, you've really helped me out a ton. I'm hoping to spend less time in the gym and get better results.

[guest589745]

I split em like this:

1-chest/biceps/front delts
2-off
3-back/traps/triceps/side-rear delts
4-off
5-quads/hams/calves/abs
6-0ff
7-repeat


I honestly think this is good for my own bodies recuperation ability. It may change over time but right now its the best I can come up with to suit me.

[IBdmfkr]

I am going to try working out EOD and keep track of my progress and lifting intensely. You base a lot of your information on Mike Mentzer and I researched Mike and he truely is a smart guy. I constructed a new routine and would like to start this monday so I'd appreciate your input prior to monday so I can start my new plan.

Day 1 - Chest, Triceps Add shoulders here
Day 2 - Recovery
Day 3 - Back, Biceps Add Traps here, forearms will get worked simultaneously
Day 4 - Recovery
Day 5 - Legs, lower back Calve, Use straight leg Dead Lifts for leg/lower back compound movement, Deep stretch!s
Day 6 - Recovery
Day 7 - Shoulder, Traps, Forearm, Abs Repeat HERE, no need for this day it can be avoided... I followed the routine I just outlined for 6months with great results, now I go 1on2off as I'm becoming more advanced and require more rest
Day 8 - Recovery
Day 9 - Repeat

I have a few questions:

1. The muscles I train together, are they correctly placed? In bold
2. How many reps and sets do you do, and how much resting time between sets? (I know reps and sets vary per muscle group, but I'd like just an "average") 2Sets, 2 exercises per bodypart to failure.. Reps for upper body 6-10, reps for lower body 12-20 normally.
3. 45 minutes is tops as far as time spent lifting? 45-1hr is recommended on HIT training but if it takes you 1hr 15min then so be it.. don't rush your workout but move at a steady pace.. I get a Heart rate monitor and when my heart rate goes down to 130bpm I do my next set, it normally jumps to around 150-160 during the set, I burn upwards of 800-1000calories during my workout.
4. How many exercises per muscle, because seeing how before I could do biceps only for an hour and now splitting it with my back an even larger muscle group, I can see how it might be difficult to shorten my workouts.
You gotta figure a muscle like the biceps or triceps is being hit from the beginning of the workout with your primary muscle groups.. Ex. (Triceps) they are hit on the 2chest excercises, both shoulders, and then finished on the isolated tricep lifts.. mine will literally cramp for the next 2days after if flexed, very intense.
Also are there any other lifting techniques with a HIT program, like lifting slowly? You always lift in a controled manner to work the muscle not put stress on tendons/ligaments, people who use bad form either get hurt or worse waste their time doing a lift wrong for years without stimulated the muscle to it's fullest impeeding growth. I recently have been using the Positive/Negative/Static failure and it seems to be the most intense way I can work my muscle.. utterly painful. If done correctly you cannot work the muscle again for a week, trust me

Thank you very much I**mfkr, you've really helped me out a ton. I'm hoping to spend less time in the gym and get better results.

No problem bro, hope this helps.. It's worked wonders for my physique, hope you can lift intensely enough to see the same results.. it's not for everyone, you gotta cause yourself pain.. go into the gym every day you lift and think to yourself I am about to feel ****ing pain and I'm going to like it.. lol Goodluck and enjoy

Skull, switch the Bi's and Tri's you have them on the wrong days and it will affect your back workout 2days later. Also hit your shoulders on Chest day and don't hit anterior delts directly, they get indirectly stimulated with your chest routine.. focus on your medial and posterior delts and do them between Chest and Tri's.. PM me if you'd like a more specific routine for this.
Not telling you what to do, just offering help

[guest589745]

Skull, switch the Bi's and Tri's you have them mixed up on days.

But dont ya think I could hit em harder when they arent being worked after my back already kinda used em up ?

[IBdmfkr]

I think you'll overtrain your bi's very quickly with the routine listed, not to mention it'll affect the amount of weight you can pull with your back from the already fatigued muscle group.. I enjoy doing isolated movements to preexhaust my larger muscle groups first, THEN I go back and hit it hard with a compound.. otherwise the smaller muscle group will fatigue first and you won't correctly train your larger muscle to failure..
Ex: Doing Pec Deck flies to failure one set, then immediately going to say Incline smith chest press and doing a set to Positive failure, ouch the burn! Chest will feel like it's gonna pop. Wait a minute then do 1set to negative failure staying within the 6-10 rep range.. Then one minute later do a static hold for as long as you can possibly hold it.. Your chest is done, now move on to shoulders and do the same thing, then tri's.. Try it with maxium intensity with a spot ofcourse and tell me it isn't an extremely intense routine that causes maximum damage to your muscle tissue.. My chest will cramp of later that night if I reach across my body for something at times.

lol You're getting me to give away my secrets
This particular routine I pulled from mentzer, and it works great.. there are many more similar to it as you'll want to change things up every 6-8wks IMO.. EX: I'd do preexhaust for a month or two and then move on to rest-pauses or Max contractions etc..

[guest589745]

Lol, I need to talk to you thoroughly after I recoup from my surgery.

[guest589745]

How do you pre exhaust your lats?

[IBdmfkr]

Standing Lat pulldowns, similar to this but standing.. not sure what this guy is doing in pic
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exerc...tpulldowns.htm

Then go directly into this movement.. underhand palm up closegrip pulldowns
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/excercise/1.htm

Then I'd finish it with these:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/excer...rebellrows.htm

[guest589745]

I LOVE underhand close grip pulldowns. Mentzer is who got me doin those and ever since then I love em.

[guest589745]

I have never done standing lat pulldowns......gotta try em now.

[tard_zone]

I see you never said anything about abs, I'm trying to bulk right now and wouldn't mind cutting abs out of my work out and do abs when cutting time comes. Also should I switch up the way I am training, for example:

Chest, Triceps, Shoulder

Should one chest exercise then one tricep then one shoulder be done? I can see how doing all my chest exercises first in this scenario will warm the triceps and shoulders up, but will I ever start the day with shoulders or triceps? Any specific order for lifting?

Also 2 exercises seems inadequate for some body parts, for example: would I do chest with a flat bench press and incline bench press or replace one of them for a fly?

thanks again for the help, I'll try and post my final workout schedule saturday or sunday

[tard_zone]

Burning 800-1000 calories per workout. So you'd probally reccommend I chuck my bottle of no-xplode and start eating heavy before the gym to stay out of catabolic state. I go on an empty stomach just beacuse your suppose to take no-xplode on an empty stomach, I just really like no-xplode because of the energy rush I get. BTW, I go in the morning and I'd have to be up way too early to eat big then let it settle then take no-xplode, so I can only do one.

[tinyguy2]

take a caffiene pill or some amp

[IBdmfkr]

I see you never said anything about abs, I'm trying to bulk right now and wouldn't mind cutting abs out of my work out and do abs when cutting time comes. Also should I switch up the way I am training, for example: Abs are hit indirectly (squats/BB rows/Deadlifts/military press etc)

Chest, Triceps, Shoulder

Should one chest exercise then one tricep then one shoulder be done? I can see how doing all my chest exercises first in this scenario will warm the triceps and shoulders up, but will I ever start the day with shoulders or triceps? Any specific order for lifting? I concentrate on one bodypart at a time, if you preexhaust your Tri's then your chest will be neglected because you won't be able to push it to its max.. do larger bodyparts first IMO

Also 2 exercises seems inadequate for some body parts, for example: would I do chest with a flat bench press and incline bench press or replace one of them for a fly? Come workout with me and then say that, you need to up your intensity and up the weight used but keep strict form.. up the intensity/lower the frequency, Stimulate/stress the muscle and get out of the gym to start the recovery process.

thanks again for the help, I'll try and post my final workout schedule saturday or sunday

Burning 800-1000 calories per workout. So you'd probally reccommend I chuck my bottle of no-xplode and start eating heavy before the gym to stay out of catabolic state. I go on an empty stomach just beacuse your suppose to take no-xplode on an empty stomach, I just really like no-xplode because of the energy rush I get. BTW, I go in the morning and I'd have to be up way too early to eat big then let it settle then take no-xplode, so I can only do one.

BCAA's and a form of faster acting carbs is a good idea prior to the workout for various reasons.

[tard_zone]

What is a form of faster acting carbs, is that like simple sugars? And the only conflict I have with the 2 exercises thing is for chest. I love flat and incline press but they are similar except for the angle of your chest. For chest would you recommend a fly and a press or just two presses.

[guest589745]

What is a form of faster acting carbs, is that like simple sugars? And the only conflict I have with the 2 exercises thing is for chest. I love flat and incline press but they are similar except for the angle of your chest. For chest would you recommend a fly and a press or just two presses.

Pre exhaust with flies then go to a press. That should work.

and yes fast acting carbs are simple carbs like sugars they are highly glycemic. This is one exception of when to eat carbs high on the GI chart, PWO. I would suggest learning as much as possible about this because it was hard for me to figure it out and I still dont know everything.

[tard_zone]

Should I switch from week to week?

Flat Flyes, Flat Bench week one
Flat Flyes, Incline Bench week two

For the 2 sets being performed, should any warm up sets be done

[mark_newcastle]

What is a form of faster acting carbs, is that like simple sugars? And the only conflict I have with the 2 exercises thing is for chest. I love flat and incline press but they are similar except for the angle of your chest. For chest would you recommend a fly and a press or just two presses.

i like a combination of 50% dextrose and 50% maltodextrin pwo buddy give it a go

a lot of people i know prefer a 100% dextrose alternative which you could maybe try too

[IBdmfkr]

Should I switch from week to week?

Flat Flyes, Flat Bench week one
Flat Flyes, Incline Bench week two

For the 2 sets being performed, should any warm up sets be done

If that suits you.

I look for weak parts on my body and base my workouts around there. My upper chest has been lagging a bit so I incorporated heavier incline movements.. now it's really started to come together and you can see the separation over a 6month period.. As it evens out I may incorporate more flat/decline presses to build more mass. Idea is to stay symmetrical and proportionate.

[tard_zone]

Are maltodextrin and dextrose obtained through supplements? Because I did some quick searching for dextrose and the main thing that would come up is honey and that's not going to be my pre-workout meal. If your burning in the range of 800-1000 calories per workout, it is smart to at LEAST consume 800-1000, right? No-xplode has 60 calories and I looked in the ingredients and there is Maltodextrin, but at 60 calories being the only thing in my body after waking up, I'm still burning more than I am consuming, and that prevents weight gain.

Also, are any warm up sets required for the two intense sets being performed?

Thanks everyone for helping, I didn't expect this many questions to arise, but I keep finding out more stuff im doing wrong.

[Columbus]

Sorry to derail, but I too have been studying and reading up more on Yates than Mentzer - albeit same principle. I truly am starting to believe this is the way to train as right now my lower back is KILLING be from 5x a week training. Standing oh press one day, str8 leg deads one day, reg. deads, squats. Just plays a toll. My only confusion is this: Let's use day one as an example - Bench, Tri Delt

FLAT BENCH - 2 WARMUPS 50% MAX - 12 REPS, 10 REPS THEN...
2 SETS HEAVY - BALLS OUT 80-90% OF MAX FOR 6-8 REPS (TOTAL OF 4 SETS INCLUDING WARMS)

STANDING OH PRESS - 2 WARMS 50% OF MAX, 12 10 REPS.....THEN 2 SETS SAME AS ABOVE

TRIS - SKULL CRUSHERS - SAME AS ABOVE - SO 12 SETS IN TOTAL, 6 WARMS 6 BALLS OUT....Correct?

[IBdmfkr]

Are maltodextrin and dextrose obtained through supplements? Because I did some quick searching for dextrose and the main thing that would come up is honey and that's not going to be my pre-workout meal. If your burning in the range of 800-1000 calories per workout, it is smart to at LEAST consume 800-1000, right? No-xplode has 60 calories and I looked in the ingredients and there is Maltodextrin, but at 60 calories being the only thing in my body after waking up, I'm still burning more than I am consuming, and that prevents weight gain.

Also, are any warm up sets required for the two intense sets being performed?

Thanks everyone for helping, I didn't expect this many questions to arise, but I keep finding out more stuff im doing wrong.

Deff don't want to go with 800-1000calories preworkout, as you'll be too stuffed to lift, also a meal that size isn't easily digested nor can you body utilize all the nutrients in time causing fat to be stored. Your body stores glycogen to fuel your body for different activities during the day etc.. If you sip on a maltodextrin or dextrose drink mixed with Protein (3-4:1) then it will help keeping you in an anabolic state and keeping your glycogen levels from bottoming out per say. You consume calories throughout the day and night so 1000calories aren't needed directly before a workout, the body stores calories consumed a day prior etc assuming your will need or use them at a later time. If you read books I'd suggest you do so on this subject a bit to help expand your knowledge.

[vitor]

I have been more of a volume trainer b/f. My new training partner though, is a big follower my the heavy duty princible outlined by Mentzer.

I tried one of hes chest workouts 6-days ago which was:
-Low incline flyes-to failure, 1 drop set to failure(1 set) +superset to incline bench, no rest.
-incline bench press-to failure, 2 forced reps, 1 slow negative(1 set)
-Pec deck flyes- to failure(1 set)

After warm-up the workout took about 7-8 minutes, and I am still sore after 6days. I can swear my chest looks bigger...

I think the biggest adjustment is to really concentrate of foucusing maximum intensity on those few sets, since I am used to the volume approach.

[IBdmfkr]

Glad you liked it, be sure and keep a log so you can track progression Vitor.. As soon as you see things start to stall out strengh-wise then quickly change things up in order to keep things moving.

[vitor]

Glad you liked it, be sure and keep a log so you can track progression Vitor.. As soon as you see things start to stall out strengh-wise then quickly change things up in order to keep things moving.

Will do, thanks.

Do you train like this every time you go to the gym now, or do you mix things up with lighter weights(more sets/reps) once in a while?

This type of training seems to be more taxing on your muscles, so taking more rest days between workouts like you do is probaly a wise idea.
7-days since my chest workout now, and I still feel sorness, I think I will have to wait, 9, maybe 10 days b/f I can hit the same bodypart again...

[IBdmfkr]

Will do, thanks.

Do you train like this every time you go to the gym now, or do you mix things up with lighter weights(more sets/reps) once in a while? Light weight? HA hell no brother, I progressively go heavier Every time! Lighter weight will do nothing for growth other than put blood in the muscle giving you a "pump", which in sense is a false sense of working the muscle. You must cause the most amount of muscle fibers to contract to promote the muscle to want to become bigger/stronger, that's why HIT/Max contraction training is the best IMO.
This type of training seems to be more taxing on your muscles, so taking more rest days between workouts like you do is probaly a wise idea.
7-days since my chest workout now, and I still feel sorness, I think I will have to wait, 9, maybe 10 days b/f I can hit the same bodypart again...
Good thinking! Also keep this thought in mind, IF you were to work say Chest on Monday and then you follow it with Back on Wednesday, the Chest will actually stop repairing itself on Wed when you do your back routine causing your CNS to be taxed once again, it will then continue to rebuild when and only when the CNS has fully recovered allowing your body to then rebuild muscle tissue.. This being said you may be training too closely together, I've recently put 2days inbetween lifts with awesome results and recovery.. Just an Idea I have, haven't read that one anywhere lol

Thanks for feedback Vitor, your a respected member I always like to hear from you guys to see how ppl respond to similar routines.

[tard_zone]

Chest, Triceps, Shoulder
Flat Bench Press
Incline DB Press
Close Grip Bench
Lying Tricep Extensions
Standing Side Lateral DB Raise
Standing Barbell Press

Does that look decent for my 1st workout of 2 exercises, 2 sets, w/ 6-10 reps. I'm planning on doing that for tomorrow and then I'll finish my Back/Biceps/Trap day and Legs/lower back/calve day. Am I suppose to do any warm up sets, because from the sounds of it I want to just go to the gym, go heavy with strict form and "cause pain" and warm up sets seem like they would be unnecessary energy waste

[IBdmfkr]

I'd do shoulders before Tri's because it's a larger muscle group.. doing tri's first will affect your shoulder workout.

[tard_zone]

Besides the order I put them in does it look alright? Also, no one has answered if I'm suppose to do a warm up set or not with H.I.T.

[IBdmfkr]

Ofcourse you do a warm-up, it doesn't stress the muscle and it helps prevent injuries.

The routine looks ok, Try it and keep a log like suggested and see how you results are.

[tard_zone]

First day was amazing, I really felt it in the chest. My second workout is as follows

Back/Traps/Biceps
Barbell Rows
Pull Ups
Shrugs
Upright Rows
Barbell Curls
Hammer Curls

and for my third work out

Quads/Hams/Calves/Lower Back
Squat
Leg Press
Lunges
Stiff Leg Dead Lift
Leg Press Calf Raises
Seated Calf Raises
Hyper extension


looking good as far as structure goes?

[IBdmfkr]

I'd switch shrugs with back movement (finish back and then do shrugs).. my third back movement would be Deadlifts.

Legs: I'd replace SLDL's with goodmornings or laying leg curls to failure.
I'd only do 2excercises for calves to failure.

[tard_zone]

So for legs replace SLDL w/ goodmornings, and cut back on my calves. I do not get what you are trying to suggest with the back statement. You say finish back and then do shrugs, which is what I am doing. Also how would deadlifts be involved in your upper back work out. Thanks once again I**mfkr, you've really helped me make better games and have more free time.

[IBdmfkr]

Deadlifts will produce gains throughout your whole body and is one of the most overlooked exercises that exists. Forget it helping your upper back much, your lower back is actually a larger muscle and supports your whole body next to your a**ominals.. if you have a weak core, it is like having a weak link in your foundation.. You wouldn't build a mansion on a thin slab would you?

[tard_zone]

should my deadlifts be on my legs/lower back day, seeing how that exercises targets both. I agree with its importance, but would it be a better choice to put on my legs/lower back day

[IBdmfkr]

I do them on Back day as they primarily focus on lower back.
Do squats/leg press/good mornings/lunges for legs.

[Muscle_4_Hire]

I**... agree on the deadlifts... I've been natty for years now and deadlifts make me look like a roided freak. My deadlift is 400lbs right now. Do you know how tough it is to stand there thinking "I gotta lift all that now!"... yea, thats the shit right there..

And wtf... they block **? as in I b d mfckr... ** ** ** ** **

[tard_zone]

but i train my lower back with legs anyway, why would I want to hit my lower back twice by adding it into my upper back routine? I know deadlifts are important but since i dont train my lower back on the same day as upper back why would I put an exercise for legs and lower back on an upper back day. If you recommend it still, I'm going to have to take your word for it because you have a lot more experience than me and the way you've got me training is a lot better.

[IBdmfkr]

I**... agree on the deadlifts... I've been natty for years now and deadlifts make me look like a roided freak. My deadlift is 400lbs right now. Do you know how tough it is to stand there thinking "I gotta lift all that now!"... yea, thats the shit right there..

And wtf... they block **? as in I b d mfckr... ** ** ** ** **

lol ** just so happens to be the initials for a UG lab.. go figure.

but i train my lower back with legs anyway, why would I want to hit my lower back twice by adding it into my upper back routine? I know deadlifts are important but since i dont train my lower back on the same day as upper back why would I put an exercise for legs and lower back on an upper back day. If you recommend it still, I'm going to have to take your word for it because you have a lot more experience than me and the way you've got me training is a lot better.

I've personally never worked lower back on the same day as legs, you posted that routine I was just helping you with it.

Therefore if you followed a routine where you did your whole back together this would work nicely. Legs and lower back? lol j/k bro

[vitor]

Deadlifts will produce gains throughout your whole body and is one of the most overlooked exercises that exists. Forget it helping your upper back much, your lower back is actually a larger muscle and supports your whole body next to your a**ominals.. if you have a weak core, it is like having a weak link in your foundation.. You wouldn't build a mansion on a thin slab would you?

Agreed.

I think heavy Deadslifts are a greate exercise to develop trapezius too, so thats a bonus. When you watch Olympic-lifters you can see their traps are always well developed compared to other bodyparts, b/c of the massive load the traps have to take as they pull the bar of the floor.