Hello, just a quick question.

[J_scrolls]

I'm 20 yrs old and believe I suffer from low testosterone, I also have cystic fibrosis.

My reasons for believing that I may have low testosterone is the following factors:

- I didnt get any kind of arm pit hair until I was about 17 (lol)
- I still have little to no facial hair, just a seedy moustache and nothing else really (brother had a LOT more facial hair than me)
- I have almost no upper leg hair, just a little bit of lower leg hair (my brother is pretty hairy, along with my dad)
- I've never felt aggressive in my teenage years (this may mean shit all, but I notice a lot of my friends have aggressive tendencies)

Yes I should have seen a hormone specialist when I had little to no signs of puberty at 16, but I was too embarassed it wasnt until about a year ago I manned up and got tests with my doctor. My doctor called me about a week later and said 'The normal range is 9-28, you're at 15 which is right in the middle, you have nothing to worry about'. However I have since found out that this is not optimal and especially for someone at my age who should have their test peaking.

What are my options to increase my testosterone levels? I'm currently working out on a pretty serious diet and have gained some decent mass, but it's annoying me knowing that my test is far from optimal..


Thanks in advance, I have tried to read most of the stickies and do searches but couldn't find exactly what im after as my case is rather unique!

[zaggahamma]

you havent confirmed your low T, yet, correct?
and if i knew what i know now i would love to know my bloodwork at the earliest age possible and check often...are you going to find a doc that will test you...you must have some docs around you since you are dealing with cf
good luck bro

[J_scrolls]

you haven't confirmed your low T, yet, correct?

I've had millions of blood tests for my test but the only figure I got was '15' which I believe was my free testosterone. This is in the normal range, but to my understanding its not optimal.

Honestly I'd rather self-medicate than go through my doctor, she knows I like going to the gym and she is just going to think I want steroids - which is true to a degree as having higher testosterone isn't a necessity its just that I would prefer to be at the optimal level. Although I dont want to go all out and go above the maximum natural level, I just want to be in the high range if you can do such a thing.

[zaggahamma]

yes, i hear you....you want to use but not abuse

make sure you learn how to do pct if you take any aas

i also wonder if i was low my whole life as the beard came late and gained weight in middle easy...i did a cycle in my early 20's and saw great results and did not do any pct and so i'll never know why my levels were just under 300 at age 37
so you're young bro....dont make mistakes made by others...educate yourself....try to include you doc....you can learn from him and this forum...and you will have the ultimate decision
make the best of it

[J_scrolls]

yes, i hear you....you want to use but not abuse

make sure you learn how to do pct if you take any aas

i also wonder if i was low my whole life as the beard came late and gained weight in middle easy...i did a cycle in my early 20's and saw great results and did not do any pct and so i'll never know why my levels were just under 300 at age 37
so you're young bro....dont make mistakes made by others...educate yourself....try to include you doc....you can learn from him and this forum...and you will have the ultimate decision
make the best of it

yep all great points and sound advice, I'd need to do a lot of research before considering doing anything obviously.. but I guess my question is is there anything I can do other than injecting? As I said before I'm not aiming to have super high test, just optimal within the normal range. I understand there is creams/pills? I dont see much information on a non-injectable steroid options, is that because they're junk and a waste of money? All the 'starter' cycles I see contain test-e, meaning injections.

[zaggahamma]

yes bro...you have a good attitude...DO research this site and/or talk with doctors and continue with your GOOD DIET and BUSTIN ASS IN THE GYM...like theres no tommorrow and you cant go wrong...you got all these people behind you...1 person (like your doc) or anyonelse might not have the answer but gather bits and pieces from everyone and everywhere and form your own sound plan...together you'll beat the odds you were delt because the human heart is phenomenal.
you will also find the answer to your question about forms of medicine with your continued research i want you to find it on your own
find a doc that is willing to test your hormones properly and discuss them with you...not just give you a weird round about number with no units of measure like 15 wtf? 15 lbs? 15 gallons? wtf is this guy/gal talking about...you have a serious concern and you are an adult now....these doctors work for you....if you're serious about your health and not just trying to score some legal roids you have every right to demand these tests
list your weight, bf%, diet, exercise routine and the breakdown of what you mentioned about gaining some mass lately

[binder]

If those are the ranges your doctor gave you on free test then you are fine. Right in the middle. Why question that?

There are many other reasons for a person not to develop early on. I grew a beard in 7th grade, but i didn't grow in height until I was 16. So does that mean I had high test or low test? Neither. There are too many other factors.

What about female children that do not grown? Their growth is delayed or not at all due to a possible disease process or just a variation in human nature.

Maybe you had a cleaner (steroid free) diet as a child. Puberty is defined as a period of about a decade that starts in the teen years. Puberty can last as long as mid twenties.

No body hair also doesn't mean low test. I have a friend that is 26 and still does not at all grow body hair except a short amount of hair on his head. I've seen clinical cases of people that do not grow any hair at all on their bodies.

Go with what your doctor says. If you're going through puberty now, then your hormones are working fine....why alter that at such an early age and possibly throw it all away?

I'm confused why anyone even goes to their doctor when they just second guess them and throw their knowledge under the bus when they hear it.

[zaggahamma]

If those are the ranges your doctor gave you on free test then you are fine. Right in the middle. Why question that?

There are many other reasons for a person not to develop early on. I grew a beard in 7th grade, but i didn't grow in height until I was 16. So does that mean I had high test or low test? Neither. There are too many other factors.

What about female children that do not grown? Their growth is delayed or not at all due to a possible disease process or just a variation in human nature.

Maybe you had a cleaner (steroid free) diet as a child. Puberty is defined as a period of about a decade that starts in the teen years. Puberty can last as long as mid twenties.

No body hair also doesn't mean low test. I have a friend that is 26 and still does not at all grow body hair except a short amount of hair on his head. I've seen clinical cases of people that do not grow any hair at all on their bodies.

Go with what your doctor says. If you're going through puberty now, then your hormones are working fine....why alter that at such an early age and possibly throw it all away?

I'm confused why anyone even goes to their doctor when they just second guess them and throw their knowledge under the bus when they hear it.

i need to research that further....are you saying test level(s) have NOTHING to do with beard growth, growing of musculature, deepening of the voice, etc,?
and about the doctor...i made a post in another thread about advice here vs. doctor advice....doctor you can sue....but I WOULD DEFINATELY NOT put my health 100% in a doctor's hands...i will listen to him, research, etc., but i am the ultimate decider of what i put in my body
i believe that these young fellows are getting the point i'm trying to get across

[J_scrolls]

If those are the ranges your doctor gave you on free test then you are fine. Right in the middle. Why question that?

I have many reasons to question it, I wasnt diagnosed with Cystic Fibrosis until I was 14, meaning doctors failed to see my symptoms and think to get me tested. Despite 95% of people getting diagnosed before the age of 3, it wasn't until I read an article in the newspaper that I decided to get tested and guess what I had it! There is a lot of great doctors out there, dont get me wrong, but there is also a lot of bad ones just like in any occupation.

My doctor who gave me the ranges is a lung specialist and a GP, not a endocrinologist. I've since read just because you're in the normal range doesnt mean its optimal and a lot of people benefit from being in the higher threshold. I read that on the sticky on this forum..


As for my routine, I started out at about 5"11, 145 and i've been bulking for a steady year with a few minor mishaps (went to hospital for my lungs, broke my hand). I workout 4 times a week and eat roughly 5-6 meals a day, this is my workout.

Monday: Chest/abs/calves
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: Back/bis
Thursdayff
Thursday: Shoulders/tris
Friday: off
Saturday: legs
Sunday: off

I'll give a sample of yesterdays diet:

8:30AM: 4 scrambled eggs (with yolk) with 3/4 cup of oats(uncooked measurment) and orange juice
11:00AM: 200g of tuna and a glass of milk
1AM: 350g of chicken with 2/3 cup of rice (uncooked)
3:30PM: 2 scoops of muscle milk with full cream milk
7:00PM: Chicken Parmigana (chicken with skin and ham/tomato paste and cheese) with brockerly and carrots
10:00PM: 2 slices of wholegrain bread with peanut butter and a glass of milk

I have almost the same stuff everday except my dinner will vary depending on what my mothers cooking, sometimes it will be steak, pasta, lamb etc.

After about a year with a few months MIA I'm at 170 pounds at around the same body fat (11%).. Cystic Fibrosis makes putting on fat almost impossible and its encouraged to eat a high fat diet. As I said, I dont want to be at an above natural level, I just want higher test as I want to see if my body benefits from it.

[binder]

i need to research that further....are you saying test level(s) have NOTHING to do with beard growth, growing of musculature, deepening of the voice, etc,?

nowhere in my post did i say that. don't quote me unless you quote me verbatim please.

now J. if you want to juice just say it. don't talk about your disease and signs and stuff when they don't point you in the direction of low test.

Being on the upper end doesn't mean anything. You've made great growth without it so why do you think it's too low? Mine is BELOW the normal range and i'm only 25 years old. I function normal, i don't feel sluggish or depressed or any of those "low testosterone" symptoms. I have to shave twice a day because i grow a beard that fast....

point being that your test is in the normal range. If you want to use steroids then just say that and don't bs with all this stuff about how you're "just barely under the middle of the range" and how that is affecting you.

[zaggahamma]

wtf r u talking about.....i clicked the quote button and then said myself that "i need to research that further"...
then i asked you...."are you saying that test level(s) have NOTHING to do with beard growth, growing of musculature, deepening of the voice, etc,?
so, i dont know where you're coming from....the only thing that got quote was your whole post...check it out again bro...

[zaggahamma]

I have many reasons to question it, I wasnt diagnosed with Cystic Fibrosis until I was 14, meaning doctors failed to see my symptoms and think to get me tested. Despite 95% of people getting diagnosed before the age of 3, it wasn't until I read an article in the newspaper that I decided to get tested and guess what I had it! There is a lot of great doctors out there, dont get me wrong, but there is also a lot of bad ones just like in any occupation.

My doctor who gave me the ranges is a lung specialist and a GP, not a endocrinologist. I've since read just because you're in the normal range doesnt mean its optimal and a lot of people benefit from being in the higher threshold. I read that on the sticky on this forum..


As for my routine, I started out at about 5"11, 145 and i've been bulking for a steady year with a few minor mishaps (went to hospital for my lungs, broke my hand). I workout 4 times a week and eat roughly 5-6 meals a day, this is my workout.

Monday: Chest/abs/calves
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: Back/bis
Thursdayff
Thursday: Shoulders/tris
Friday: off
Saturday: legs
Sunday: off

I'll give a sample of yesterdays diet:

8:30AM: 4 scrambled eggs (with yolk) with 3/4 cup of oats(uncooked measurment) and orange juice
11:00AM: 200g of tuna and a glass of milk
1AM: 350g of chicken with 2/3 cup of rice (uncooked)
3:30PM: 2 scoops of muscle milk with full cream milk
7:00PM: Chicken Parmigana (chicken with skin and ham/tomato paste and cheese) with brockerly and carrots
10:00PM: 2 slices of wholegrain bread with peanut butter and a glass of milk

I have almost the same stuff everday except my dinner will vary depending on what my mothers cooking, sometimes it will be steak, pasta, lamb etc.

After about a year with a few months MIA I'm at 170 pounds at around the same body fat (11%).. Cystic Fibrosis makes putting on fat almost impossible and its encouraged to eat a high fat diet. As I said, I dont want to be at an above natural level, I just want higher test as I want to see if my body benefits from it.

props on the achievement thus far....25 % and same bf%....diet...not bad, imo

[binder]

wtf r u talking about.....i clicked the quote button and then said myself that "i need to research that further"...
then i asked you...."are you saying that test level(s) have NOTHING to do with beard growth, growing of musculature, deepening of the voice, etc,?
so, i dont know where you're coming from....the only thing that got quote was your whole post...check it out again bro...

ya i know, but your question implied that i said it had nothing to do with it. Nowhere in my post did i say it had nothing to do with it. It does affect it, but obviously not as directly as everyone thinks. I know quite a few patients on HRT that grow plenty of facial hair. I myself at 25 have to shave twice a day and my test levels are below the normal range, not just at the bottom of normal range. Testosterone isn't the only hormone effecting puberty.

[zaggahamma]

ya i know, but your question implied that i said it had nothing to do with it. Nowhere in my post did i say it had nothing to do with it. It does affect it, but obviously not as directly as everyone thinks. I know quite a few patients on HRT that grow plenty of facial hair. I myself at 25 have to shave twice a day and my test levels are below the normal range, not just at the bottom of normal range. Testosterone isn't the only hormone effecting puberty.

yes i agree....and the example you give with shaving twice a day...you did this before TRT? that is a perfect example then...if you are/were low T and shave twice a day...i wonder what hormone causes this?
all good bro

[J_scrolls]

nowhere in my post did i say that. don't quote me unless you quote me verbatim please.

now J. if you want to juice just say it. don't talk about your disease and signs and stuff when they don't point you in the direction of low test.

Being on the upper end doesn't mean anything. You've made great growth without it so why do you think it's too low? Mine is BELOW the normal range and i'm only 25 years old. I function normal, i don't feel sluggish or depressed or any of those "low testosterone" symptoms. I have to shave twice a day because i grow a beard that fast....

point being that your test is in the normal range. If you want to use steroids then just say that and don't bs with all this stuff about how you're "just barely under the middle of the range" and how that is affecting you.

I honestly want to take steroids more for benefits other than muscle mass, I thought it would increase my facial hair development and other hair development, I'm honestly the equivalent to a 15-16 yr old boy. I also look young too, I just assumed this is a testosterone deficiency - am I wrong, is there any other ways to increase this other than boosting testosterone? Muscle mass would be a very nice bonus in the process tho, I must admit.

Thankyou on complimenting my gains, CF is actually a luxury whilst bulking as I can cheat often and not put on any fat, I can also go well over my maintenance level of calories and still not gain any fat.

[FullMoonHowlingWolf]

J_scrolls get a copy of your blood tests and post the results so we can see them. It's good to keep copies of blood tests for your own records and doc/labs are happy to provide them for you. You are 20 and not done growing. When I was 20 I grew an 1.5 inches and put on 20 plus pounds before turning 21 as I hit my final growth spurt.

Whatever you do don't use steroids until you are 21. Also, you need to eat more if you want to gain mass. Sometimes you just have to force feed yourself.

[binder]

yes i agree....and the example you give with shaving twice a day...you did this before TRT? that is a perfect example then...if you are/were low T and shave twice a day...i wonder what hormone causes this?
all good bro

I've never been on HRT. The doctor i'm interning with is an internal medicine doctor. Even at my low levels he said it wasn't something to worry about. My cholesterol was very low and hormones are produced from cholesterol therefore it would affect all my hormone levels. I was consistently low on most of my hormones so we adjusted diet to change my cholesterol levels. I haven't had my blood work rechecked yet but i feel better.


J, the thing is you started late in puberty. Actually not late, you started about normal. 16 years old isn't really late in the game. Because of this you will continue to grow. Puberty is approximately a decade of your life. You're right in the middle of it. You could have tons of growing left to do. You're technically 4 years into your puberty. If another person starts at 13 then they would be 17 compared to your 20.

Also, the pituitary glad is mostly responsible for puberty and hormone control. It works in conjunction with the hypothalamus. Possibly discuss some things with a doctor that specializes in teen development or hormones. I would put money on a problem with the pituitary gland before i would low test. You've already had test checked and you've proven you can make good gains and growth. Before doing anything i would probably wait out the puberty and see what happens when the hormones balance out.