Cycle, Clen and PCT questions

[isaidme]

Guys, trying to get a game plan for my second cycle. Its going to be a month or so before I start this but getting everything together. What I have is D-bol at 30mg a day for 4 weeks, Sust-250 2x a week for 5 weeks. I am thinking of finishing up using Clen for 3weeks after stack using the pyramid dosing method. I am considering using 10mg Nolva per day during stack portion of my cycle to prevent gyno and help reduce water retention because both were problems during my first.

Questions:

1st: Can I get away with Nolva alone for PCT at 40/40/20/20 and when do
I start it?

2nd: Never used Clen and am concerned with increased body temp and Cardo.
Im age 32, living in Texas and this summer seems to be the ****ing hotest summer I can remember so strokes have been a concern. I plan to do light cardio everyday during my cycle but would like to get back to my 3 spin classes that I do every week ASAP which are 45-60mins long and are cardo extensive.

Thanks for any input in advance!

[Reed]

Well first off you need to extend the cycle as 5 weeks on the sust and the long ester will just be beginning to week. Shooting that for 5 weeks would be a waste; Try 12 weeks. Also with the short prop ester mixed in w/ the sust to make use of it and to keep from blood levels going up and down its best to shot sust ed or eod..


I'd recommend to add clomid into your PCT

Also don't waste the clen with the exact reasons you listed especially during PCT as this is a time where we do not want calories to be burned off so using clen during PCT is dumb IMO

also what are your stats
age
height
weight
body fat
years training

[isaidme]

32
5'8"
190lb
% N/A
2 straight years training but have worked off and on thru out my years

[isaidme]

So Clen should be a cycle by itself then. Are you sugesting stretching out the weekly dose of sust to smaller everyday injections, ive read they should be every 3 days? I hate to sound like a puss but that is far too many holes for me. I could score sust350 giving me more weeks but im getting the 250 for cheap. Im not sure im ready for a 12week long cycle as I do fear Liver problems. You obviously know what your talking about and am not doubting it.

[isaidme]

As for PCT are you saying Clomid in addition to Nolva or instead?

[Reed]

Well after reading that its time to do some research. Start reading the stickies around the board and learn things for yourself. The newbie starter pack that is stickied, the PCT thread, steroid profiles and start learning these things for your self and less having your hand held

You won't get liver problems from test. The dbol is an oral and can do such but the liver scare is way over played and you'd have to take that for years before you have definite problems.


Yes I am suggesting to stretch out the weekly dose with smaller ed or eod injections. Sus250 as four different esters in it. The short one is prop and will peak in 24-36 hrs and will steadily declined from there and with a twice a week pinning schedule your blood levels with be up and down this may cause more sides.

The goal during use is to keep stable blood levels HOWEVER many do and continue to pin sus250 twice a week so the choice is yours, I personally recommend ed or eod as this is what i have done with sus250

Or try to purchase test e or test c for more stable blood levels throughout your cycle w/ a twice a week protocol.


If you do the dbol first run the clen at some point during the 12 week cycle in order for you to burn fat. But head down to the diet section as this is where most if not all your results will be derived from not just drugs.


And yes add in the clomid and nolva together in during PCT which will be approx. 18 days after your last injection. But my recommendation is to start reading the stickies and more in depth into the forum

[isaidme]

Yes I just read about propionate in one of your responses to another thread. I am patient and am in no hurry to do another cycle. Forgive me but what would the every day dosage be then? And last what should my clomid and nolva PCT look like / / / /?

[Reed]

wk 1-4 clomid: 50mg
wk 1-4 nolva: 20mg

http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=77

^^^ If you are in no hurry start reading the stickies so you may understand what PCT is more about compounds etc.


And yes it is a simple math problem with the sus250. It would approx be .3ml ed for your pinning

[isaidme]

Oh ok so its still going to be 500mg per week, im not literate to all the terminology on this forum yet =) ill do a lil more reading but everywhere you go its a different story.
Thanks

[Reed]

You are welcome my friend I don't mean to run you off or sound rude but I am sure all your questions can be answered with some reading that most steroid users just skip

Take your time, be patient, read the stickies, use the awesome search feature we have at the top, hit up the diet and workout forum and watch your physique do incredible things, ESPECIALLY with a well calculated diet, I can never stress that enough, if you do it right food is a drug for sure, i know from first hand experience

If you however would like to ask more questions I will be glad to help you, good luck!!!

[CptAmericaX]

Reed why wouldnt u want him to run nolvadex 40/40/20/20? for 1 month

[Reed]

From a thread I read a while back there was no difference b/w 20mg and 40mg so why use more when it is not needed, I did a search and now can not find it but look at swiftos PCT or here Pheednos and notice the studies all are conducted with just 20mg of nolva

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

However I now recommend torem for PCT but too many are unable to get there hands on it or just don't know where to look....

[CptAmericaX]

From a thread I read a while back there was no difference b/w 20mg and 40mg so why use more when it is not needed, I did a search and now can not find it but look at swiftos PCT or here Pheednos and notice the studies all are conducted with just 20mg of nolva

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

However I now recommend torem for PCT but too many are unable to get there hands on it or just don't know where to look....

Yah you read something I missed. I know I ran it 40 40 20 20 and it was awsome for me. If you got the money might as well. Thats just IME

[Reed]

true that

here read this: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

[CptAmericaX]

so penicle sugested 20 mgs ed day but for 6 weeks intresting IM going to bed and will read this for sure tommoro thanks man

[isaidme]

Oh no I appreciate the input Reed, Ive actually been to other forums and could not stand some of the attuitudes people have which turn into flame wars.
Pinnicle actually recomended not using Clomid at all but did recomend Nolva in conjuntion with a substance called Aromasin which unless I over looked it the sponser doesnt have. Is there any alternative substitute for Aromasin?
CptAmericaX, Pinnicle did suggest 20mg ed however he is also running another substance along with it so that might be the reason or maybe as Reed is saying its no more effective.

[Reed]

Well basically I'll give it to you like this.

How to run PCT is a matter of opinions based on word of mouth throughout the bodybuilding, sport, and steroid community by subjective experience. There are no actual scientific write ups done by any university or studies with this type of protocol on post cycle steroid users.

However all you have to do is look at the studies of the PCT drugs and there effects and how this can correlate to our benefits once we decide to come off the AAS drugs.

The link I provided in Post 12 of Pheednos PCT has a good read on clomid vs nolva and how the two together are different and can make a beneficial PCT protocol.

Aromasin is a aromatize inhibitor (AI) meaning they effectively lower estrogen in the blood while Clomid and Nolva are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) and these drugs block certain estrogen receptors that keep the estrogen from binding but will not lower it in the blood stream. Read: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

You need to be careful with AIs as estrogen is a important hormone in the male body and lowering it too much can cause severe side effects, and running AIs during cycles can actually hold gains back as estrogen is know to help along side with mass gains. You want your estrogen to be in a certain range and be on the look out for sides

What you need to understand is in the end we as humans don't know everything about our bodies, the steroids, or even exercise. Anadrol is a perfect example of drug that is confusing for science as it is a DHT derivative and its widely accepted that DHT derivatives do NOT aromatize thus cannot have estrogenic side effects and which should not cause gyno. This is not the case. Studies have been done to see if it may have some progestin activity but a study released some 25+ years ago in France revealed it has less progestin activity than testosterone. So in the end it must have some unknown interaction with the estrogen receptors

What I am saying is read up on your material, take different opinions and responses from everyone, be smart, and come up with what works for you. Always be willing to learn more about the basics as well, cardio, diet, training as if you began to read books or watch videos you may realize you know a lot less than you original thought, I know it happened to me and recently at that......

isaidme I'd would just suggest a basic clomid/nolva cycle simple, easy and as been widely used for some time especially for a simple cycle like you have but look through the PCT forums and read up for yourself

I know this is long and drawn out but I hope it helps and gives you a little bit of insight Now back to bed LOL!

[UncleTim]

Well basically I'll give it to you like this.

How to run PCT is a matter of opinions based on word of mouth throughout the bodybuilding, sport, and steroid community by subjective experience. There are no actual scientific write ups done by any university or studies with this type of protocol on post cycle steroid users.

However all you have to do is look at the studies of the PCT drugs and there effects and how this can correlate to our benefits once we decide to come off the AAS drugs.

The link I provided in Post 12 of Pheednos PCT has a good read on clomid vs nolva and how the two together are different and can make a beneficial PCT protocol.

Aromasin is a aromatize inhibitor (AI) meaning they effectively lower estrogen in the blood while Clomid and Nolva are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) and these drugs block certain estrogen receptors that keep the estrogen from binding but will not lower it in the blood stream. Read: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198848

You need to be careful with AIs as estrogen is a important hormone in the male body and lowering it too much can cause severe side effects, and running AIs during cycles can actually hold gains back as estrogen is know to help along side with mass gains. You want your estrogen to be in a certain range and be on the look out for sides

What you need to understand is in the end we as humans don't know everything about our bodies, the steroids, or even exercise. Anadrol is a perfect example of drug that is confusing for science as it is a DHT derivative and its widely accepted that DHT derivatives do NOT aromatize thus cannot have estrogenic side effects and which should not cause gyno. This is not the case. Studies have been done to see if it may have some progestin activity but a study released some 25+ years ago in France revealed it has less progestin activity than testosterone. So in the end it must have some unknown interaction with the estrogen receptors

What I am saying is read up on your material, take different opinions and responses from everyone, be smart, and come up with what works for you. Always be willing to learn more about the basics as well, cardio, diet, training as if you began to read books or watch videos you may realize you know a lot less than you original thought, I know it happened to me and recently at that......

isaidme I'd would just suggest a basic clomid/nolva cycle simple, easy and as been widely used for some time especially for a simple cycle like you have but look through the PCT forums and read up for yourself

I know this is long and drawn out but I hope it helps and gives you a little bit of insight Now back to bed LOL!

Short and to the point. Awesome read.