Winter cycle. Please critique

[Aizen Sosuke]

I will start this in December. I know it's very early yet but I like to plan ahead. I had thought about using boldenone but I've never tried deca and everyone says nothing but good things about it. Here it goes
testosterone enanthate 400mg/week for 13 weeks
nandrolone decaonate 400mg/week for 12 weeks
mesterolone 50mg/day weeks 6-13

PCT will start on week 14 2 days after last proviron pill
nolvadex 20/20/10/10
hcg 1500iu 3 weeks
vitamin e 1000iu/day for 3 weeks

hope to keep 10-15lbs from this stack. Let me know if anything seems out of order or improvements that could be made.
Thanks in advance

[peachfuzz]

STATS? These need to be provided anytime your asking for help.

cycle looks fine

pct start time is wrong and the pct needs alot of work as well

[marcus300]

Stats?
Cycle history?
Your PCT start time is out,

[Aizen Sosuke]

Sorry I thought that they were visible since I updated my profile anyways
25years old
5'9"
167lbs
almost 2 years lifting with only a week off(I had gotten sick)
9% bodyfat
my goal is 180lbs single digit bf. What's wrong with PCT?
Thanks

[Matt]

Diet alone will get you to 180lbs lol, post your diet, lets see whats happening..

[Aizen Sosuke]

Here's my diet. I'm a hard gainer. It's easier for me to bring my bodyfat to 6 or 7 % than gain 10 lean pounds
Diet

Breakfast 6:50AM
3 scrambled eggs
1/4 cup eggs white
1tbsp olive oil
1/2cup of potato
1 slice whole grain bread
1/2tbsp cream cheese
1 multivitamin
1 cup orange juice
5g creatine monohydrate
Water

Snack 9:00AM
1 cup of 2% milk
75g of whole grain oatmeal
Water

Lunch 12:00PM
8 oz turkey, chicken, beef or fish
sweet potato or wild rice
1 cup broccoli , spinach , carrots etc
1g vitamin C
Water

Snack 4:00PM
1 1/2 scoops whey protein
1 cup 2% milk

During Workout 6:00PM
1 serving Scivitation Xtend
3.5g leucine
1.7g isoleucine
1.7g valine
2.5g glutamine
1.0g citruline malate
2 cups water

Postworkout 7:30PM
1 scoop whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
5g creatine monohydrate


Diner 8:30PM
Same as lunch
1 Vitamin B complex

Late Snack11:00PM
1 cup cottage cheese
1 tbsp jelly
Water

[Matt]

Im going to be a pain here because i cant be bothered to do it myself lol..

Could you give us some macros???

[Matt]

Here's my diet. I'm a hard gainer. It's easier for me to bring my bodyfat to 6 or 7 % than gain 10 lean pounds
Diet

Breakfast 6:50AM
3 scrambled eggs
1/4 cup eggs white
1tbsp olive oil
1/2cup of potato
1 slice whole grain bread
1/2tbsp cream cheese
1 multivitamin
1 cup orange juice
5g creatine monohydrate
Water

Snack 9:00AM
1 cup of 2% milk
75g of whole grain oatmeal
Water

Lunch 12:00PM
8 oz turkey, chicken, beef or fish
sweet potato or wild rice
1 cup broccoli , spinach , carrots etc
1g vitamin C
Water

Snack 4:00PM
1 1/2 scoops whey protein
1 cup 2% milk

During Workout 6:00PM
1 serving Scivitation Xtend
3.5g leucine
1.7g isoleucine
1.7g valine
2.5g glutamine
1.0g citruline malate
2 cups water

Postworkout 7:30PM
1 scoop whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
5g creatine monohydrate


Diner 8:30PM
Same as lunch
1 Vitamin B complex

Late Snack11:00PM
1 cup cottage cheese
1 tbsp jelly
Water

Those that i have highlighted in red are the only real foods you are eating..

[Aizen Sosuke]

You forgot the cream cheese and orange juice in the breakfast, the milk in 2 meals and jelly at the end. I'll get the nutrients totals just give me some time gotta go through a lot of food labels. Either way I failed to see your point. Could you please elaborate? Also I cycle the creatine 1 month on and 2 off. While I'm off these next 2 months I'll try some beta alanine pre workout. Sometimes I'll have a shake at 2 or 3 in the morning when I wake up hungry. That's about it. Thanks

[Matt]

My point is this lol, your 5'9 and 167lbs, this tells me that your not eating the correct food or the correct amounts.

Your looking at steroids to as an alternative to a good diet. Your goals are very realistic and can easily be reached with a better diet...

[Aizen Sosuke]

I understand your point but I don't see how I could eat anymore than that. Even on weekends when I don't work is hard to incorporate another meal because there's no more time. I was under the impression they were all healthy foods and I'm pretty sure I take the right legal supplements. I have no doubts I could get to 170lbs but from there to 180 is quite the stretch. Also what is wrong with the PCT? IMO that's even more important than the actual cycle. Thanks

[marcus300]

Go to the diet section and check out the stickies on bulking diets, I wouldnt cycle until you have change some of your meals to muscle building foods

[Aizen Sosuke]

I looked at the bulking diets the only thing I could do is throw a casein protein shake instead of cottage cheese and jelly right before bed. And throw a tuna and whole grain bread sandwich at 4:00PM. I will add some essential fatty acids as well. The foods I have listed are muscle building foods. For proteins eggs, milk, whey, chicken, fish, beef etc. And complex carbs such as oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice, whole grain bread etc. So what is wrong with the PCT guys?

[feeldapump89]

You should stop the deca 2 weeks prior to the test and you dont really need to run that long tops maybe run the test 10-12 weeks and deca 8-10 its your first cycle no need to go crazy or anything. Run nolva at 40/40/20/20 and clomid at 100/100/50/50 for your pct keep things simple.

[feeldapump89]

Correction you are correct you can get away with cutting short 1 week before you stop test.

[Aizen Sosuke]

Ok so no HCG requiered? Sounds cheaper and less pinning so I'll give it a try. I'll also bring deca to a stop at week 11 and testosterone enanthate to week 12. I think 12 weeks is plenty as well. Thanks for your input man. One last thing I'll be injecting glutes on Monday and Thursday is 1 1/2 long 22gauge the right size needle?

[jamyjamjr]

your diet does need an overhaul..

i usualy do this in the diet section, but what they hey..

if you wanna get to the real problem.. i need you to do everything in my sticky.. word for word...


Welcome to the diet forum....

if you have not already done so, post up your stats

age
weight
height
bf
goals.. be specific

please take the time to follow these directions, they will better prepair the both of us for the critique and tweaking of your diet..

you need to figure our your BMR (this is the basal metabolic rate of your body... which means if you were to do nothing all day, ur body would burn these many calories)

once u'v figured out your BMR, u need your TDEE (this is your total daily energy expenditure, it's based upon your activity level)


But first things first, please post up your current diet.. you have to be brutally honest about what you've been eating on average for the last few weeks so i know where your metabolism is at..
please include macros

MACROS = pro/fat/cal/carb of every meal and a daily total on the bottom
you can use fitday . com to help you our with this... be as detailed and specific as possible

please include the time of when u eat and the time of your workout

example:

6am pro/carb/fat/cal
10 egg whites 50/0/0/200
1/2 cup oats- 3/50/2/218
53/50/2/418


REMEMBER

1g protien - 4cal
1g carb - 4cal
1g fat - 9cal
1g alcohol - 8cal (some would argue 7)



also tell me what your workout reg is...



BMR formula #1 (if you bf is high, use this one... you need an accurate bf reading)


BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)



in order to figure out your bmr, you need to know what your lean body mass is.. so, in turn, u need to know what your body fat percentage is...

if you dont know your bodyfat percentage, go to your gym and get tested (please dont use electronic scales to get your bf checked, they're horrible)

if you cannot find a gym to get tested at, please post up a picture for estimates, we're pretty good at it (you also have the option of pming it to me if you have more then 25 posts)

Total weight x bf in decimel form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

if your total lean body mass is in lbs, u can divide it by 2.2 to get it in kilograms..

for example..

i am 6'4 275lbs at 14% bf... so i would multiply 275 by .14 (converted from percent to decimal)= 38.5lbs

275 - 38.5 = 236.5lbs lean body weight

236.5 / 2.2 = 107.5 lean mass in kg

370 + (21.6 x 107.5) = 2692 BMR (this is high for the average person, im a big guy)




BMR formula #2 (only to be used if your bf is low)

Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )


female BMR = 655 + ( 4.35 x weight in pounds ) + ( 4.7 x height in inches ) - ( 4.7 x age in years )


TDEE

Once u have you bmr, u need to calculate your TDEE, this is simply done with some multiplication...

you can multiply it by an activity number to figure out your daily caloric expenditure, be honest here as this is the very cornerstone of your diet, if you are between two of the below activity levels then just multiply by a number in between them

To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:


If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9



Once you have your TDEE, i need you to watch these videos

Milos Sarcev "Secret of the Pro's" on Nutrition

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

this video will give you a great idea as to what your diet should be looking like and the foods you should be eating..

it's also very informative as to how dieting works and what you need to be doing..


once you've aquired this vast knowledge and done what i'v asked of you, please post up a new diet for critiquing and finalization...
please include macros and times just as before...


try to remember that dieting is not an overnight thing.. it takes time and patience....

[jamyjamjr]

Here's my diet. I'm a hard gainer. It's easier for me to bring my bodyfat to 6 or 7 % than gain 10 lean pounds
Diet

Breakfast 6:50AM
3 scrambled eggs
1/4 cup eggs white
1tbsp olive oil
1/2cup of potato
1 slice whole grain bread
1/2tbsp cream cheese
1 multivitamin
1 cup orange juice
5g creatine monohydrate
Water
you have about 30g protien in this meal and a whole mess of worthless caloreis
Snack 9:00AM
1 cup of 2% milk
75g of whole grain oatmeal
Water
8g protien in this meal
Lunch 12:00PM
8 oz turkey, chicken, beef or fish
sweet potato or wild rice
1 cup broccoli , spinach , carrots etc
1g vitamin C
Water
this is okay.. good selections.. except i'd keep the beef to bedtime
Snack 4:00PM
1 1/2 scoops whey protein
1 cup 2% milk
unless this is pwo, omit.. you need to be eating real food
During Workout 6:00PM
1 serving Scivitation Xtend
3.5g leucine
1.7g isoleucine
1.7g valine
2.5g glutamine
1.0g citruline malate
2 cups water

Postworkout 7:30PM
1 scoop whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
5g creatine monohydrate
cut the soy milk and condensed milk.. use water.. add a semi-simple or complex carb... white bagel, rice, pasta.. oat

Diner 8:30PM
Same as lunch
1 Vitamin B complex

Late Snack11:00PM
1 cup cottage cheese too many simple sugars... omit for a lean beef
1 tbsp jelly is this sugar free?? if not, omit..
Water

your not eating as much as you think you are bud.. your filling yourself up on calories that arn't optimal...

[Aizen Sosuke]

Thank you. Now that was very helpfull. I'll restructure my diet and see if I could stick to it for a week. If so I'll post it up again with macros
stats
25yo
5'9"
167lbs
9% bf (this was done with calipers a month ago at my gym)
I would like to get to 180lbs and stay in single digit bf
I just got a casein protein powder so I could switch it for the cottage cheese at 11:00pm. I'll also change that 4:00pm shake for actual food, maybe some tuna with whole grain bread.
Thanks again man.

[jamyjamjr]

ill be waiting on the post...

[Aizen Sosuke]

So I restructured my diet a bit. You also wanted to know my training split. Here it goes as well.
Chest and Tricepsb(4 or 5 sets of 6 to 12 reps usually failure)
Bench Press 6 sets or Dumbell Bench Press
Incline Dumbell Press or Incline Bench Press
Isolateral wide chest press or Decline Chest Press
Flye Machine or Cable Crossover
Skullcrusher or Cable Pushdowns
Reverse Pushdowns or Behind neck extension
Kickback or One arm reverse pushdowns
I won't bother you with the rest in details but at least know this
Back(3 exercises) and Biceps(3 exercises)
Legs(7 exercises)
Shoulders(5) and abs (3)
rest
these will be changing in 2 weeks as I have been on this split for 6 weeks already. Here's the diet
Diet

Breakfast 6:30AM
3 scrambled eggs
1/4 cup eggs white
1tbsp olive oil
1/2cup of potato
1/4 cup oatmeal
1 cup milk 2%
1 multivitamin
1 cup water
P54g. C100g. F57g.

Snack 9:00AM
2 slices whole grain bread
oz tuna
1 Tbsp light mayo
P23g. C42g. F5g.
Water

Lunch 12:00PM
8 oz turkey, chicken, beef or fish
1 cup sweet potato or wild rice
1/2 cup broccoli , spinach , carrots etc
1g vitamin C
Water
P76g. C55g. F12g.

Snack 4:00PM
1 scoop ON whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
P32g. C19g. F8g.

During Workout 6:00PM
1 serving Scivitation Xtend
3.5g leucine
1.7g isoleucine
1.7g valine
2.5g glutamine
1.0g citruline malate
2 cups water

Postworkout 7:30PM
1 1/2 scoop ON whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
5g creatine monohydrate
P44g. C20g. F9g.

Diner 8:30PM
Same as lunch
1 Vitamin B complex
P70g. C50. F10.

10:00PM
1 serving of ON ZMA

Late Snack11:00PM
1 scoop ON casein protein
1 cup 2% milk
1tbsp condensed milk
P32g. C24g. F12g.

Total protein 331g
Total carbs 310g
Total fats 113g
Total calories 3581

Let me know what you think. I weighed myself yesterday and I was at 169lbs. I have to get my body fat measured now since last time I did was a month ago I was at 166lbs. I project I could be at 175 by december when I plan on starting the cycle mentioned above. That gives me plenty of time to learn more. On a side note when I started 2 years ago I was at 140lbs so that's almost 30lbs the natural way and my body fat has gone down. Granted I was in bad shape which makes the progress seem like more but I think I know what I'm doing now.

[boarderpro1]

I have been a member of this website for 4 years now I dont post much except when I have a question thats very important or I feel I need to chime in every now and then. The thing I dont understand is why heck does it matter what some ones diet is. Its not hard to realize half these dudes make their diets up let alone stats. If someone wants to do a cycle they will do it regardless of what we all say. I personally feel I might as well lead them in the direction I would do my own cycle with the gear they supposedly have. With that said.

Test week 1-12 400mg

Deca week 1-10 400mg

PCT

Nolva week 14-18 30mg daily

Clomid week 14-16 100mg daily week 16-18 50mg daily

[Matt]

I have been a member of this website for 4 years now I dont post much except when I have a question thats very important or I feel I need to chime in every now and then. The thing I dont understand is why heck does it matter what some ones diet is. Its not hard to realize half these dudes make their diets up let alone stats. If someone wants to do a cycle they will do it regardless of what we all say. I personally feel I might as well lead them in the direction I would do my own cycle with the gear they supposedly have. With that said.

Test week 1-12 400mg

Deca week 1-10 400mg

PCT

Nolva week 14-18 30mg daily

Clomid week 14-16 100mg daily week 16-18 50mg daily

I think it would be a good idea if you didnt post so much. In bbing diet is without dought the most important factor.

The op seems to be more than interested in getting his diet right before cycling, and ive seen many many people come here and rethink their diets before cycling..

You seem to think that its not important to ask for stats or diet, well if we follow what you say then hell lets stop asking for stats. And when some 15 year old kids parents come on asking who the fvck would give a cycle plan to a 15 year old before even asking for stats then we can tell them this was your idea...

[boarderpro1]

listen any knuckle head will make their stats up to get answers. thats all im saying so lets get to the bottom line at the end of the day you dont really care about the person your helping out so if they screw themself up then they do. on top of that if some 15 yr old kid comes on here and asks for advice and claims 2 be 25 how you gunna know your not. fact of the matter is he really wants cycle advice not diet advice anyone can find a good diet plan anywhere not everyone can find a halfway intelligent person to tell them a proper way to cycle correctly.

[Aizen Sosuke]

Cool it guys. You both have valid points. I am intrested in both diet and steroids. And hey man I'm not making up my stats. I'm very serious about al this just wanna do it right. BTW I could get pretty much any gear so if you think something might be better than deca for a begginer like me then elaborate. I do wanna stick to test enanthate and proviron as an AI. Thanks for the help.

[jamyjamjr]

I think it would be a good idea if you didnt post so much. In bbing diet is without dought the most important factor.

The op seems to be more than interested in getting his diet right before cycling, and ive seen many many people come here and rethink their diets before cycling..

You seem to think that its not important to ask for stats or diet, well if we follow what you say then hell lets stop asking for stats. And when some 15 year old kids parents come on asking who the fvck would give a cycle plan to a 15 year old before even asking for stats then we can tell them this was your idea...

im gonna have to agree... cant drive cross country on an empty tank of gas buddy...

diet is key..

[jamyjamjr]

to the op... what kinda potato is that in breakfast??

we need to up your calories another 300...

[Aizen Sosuke]

Regular potato. Why what do you suggest? Also what could I incorporate in order to bring it another 300cal?

[jamyjamjr]

So I restructured my diet a bit. You also wanted to know my training split. Here it goes as well.
Chest and Tricepsb(4 or 5 sets of 6 to 12 reps usually failure)
Bench Press 6 sets or Dumbell Bench Press
Incline Dumbell Press or Incline Bench Press
Isolateral wide chest press or Decline Chest Press
Flye Machine or Cable Crossover
Skullcrusher or Cable Pushdowns
Reverse Pushdowns or Behind neck extension
Kickback or One arm reverse pushdowns
I won't bother you with the rest in details but at least know this
Back(3 exercises) and Biceps(3 exercises)
Legs(7 exercises)
Shoulders(5) and abs (3)
rest
these will be changing in 2 weeks as I have been on this split for 6 weeks already. Here's the diet
Diet

Breakfast 6:30AM
3 scrambled eggs
1/4 cup eggs white
1tbsp olive oil
1/2cup of potato omit for sweet potato, yams, or oats
1/4 cup oatmeal
1 cup milk 2%
1 multivitamin
1 cup water
P54g. C100g. F57g.

Snack 9:00AM
2 slices whole grain bread u can add carbs here..
oz tuna
1 Tbsp light mayo
P23g. C42g. F5g.
Water

Lunch 12:00PM
8 oz turkey, chicken, beef or fish
1 cup sweet potato or wild rice by wild rice i hope you mean brown rice
1/2 cup broccoli , spinach , carrots etc
1g vitamin C
Water
P76g. C55g. F12g.

Snack 4:00PM
1 scoop ON whey protein double up on this
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk u should add complex carb.. lose the milks..
P32g. C19g. F8g.

During Workout 6:00PM
1 serving Scivitation Xtend
3.5g leucine
1.7g isoleucine
1.7g valine
2.5g glutamine
1.0g citruline malate
2 cups water

Postworkout 7:30PM make this 2 scoops
1 1/2 scoop ON whey protein
1 cup soy milk
1 tbsp condensed milk
5g creatine monohydrate
P44g. C20g. F9g.

Diner 8:30PM
Same as lunch
1 Vitamin B complex
P70g. C50. F10.

10:00PM
1 serving of ON ZMA what exactly is this??

Late Snack11:00PM
1 scoop ON casein protein
1 cup 2% milk lose the milk, add an efa.. something like natual peanut butter or almonds... any efa will do..
1tbsp condensed milk
P32g. C24g. F12g.

Total protein 331g
Total carbs 310g
Total fats 113g
Total calories 3581

Let me know what you think. I weighed myself yesterday and I was at 169lbs. I have to get my body fat measured now since last time I did was a month ago I was at 166lbs. I project I could be at 175 by december when I plan on starting the cycle mentioned above. That gives me plenty of time to learn more. On a side note when I started 2 years ago I was at 140lbs so that's almost 30lbs the natural way and my body fat has gone down. Granted I was in bad shape which makes the progress seem like more but I think I know what I'm doing now.

im not a big fan of milk.. it has too many sugars in it...

[Aizen Sosuke]

Yes it is brown rice. ZMA is a zinc, magnesium and B6 in a dosage ratio that promotes a testosterone increase. It's natural and it does work for me cause I get extremly horny on it. I'll switch the potatos for yam in the morning. What would be complex carb to add to the pre workout shake?

[Aizen Sosuke]

I got a bit of good and bad news. The good news is I've been able to follow the diet with ease and the more I eat my appetite seems to be growing. I think I'll up the meats to 10oz and 1 more egg and whites in the morning. Now onto bad news. My source cannot get me Deca-Durabolin for a long while. I've got some options but I need to sort them out in the next couple of months. I could try and find another source but I don't think I could trust anyone as much as my best friend whom I've known for over 10 years. Or I could switch to another compound. Now more research needs to be done.

[jamyjamjr]

dont up your meats that high.. you never need to eat more then 60g of protien per sitting...

what's your cycle history???

btw... i like your avi, bit of a fan of bleach

[Aizen Sosuke]

Thanks man I'm addicted to Bleach. I did one cycle before primobolan enanthate 200mg/week with trenbolone enanthate 300mg/week for 8 weeks. Gained 5lbs of lean muscle and muscle definition increased. Strength went up about 30lbs. Kept all gains with a PCT consisting of HCG for 2 weeks with clomid and nolvadex. Then kept the clomid and nolvadex for 10 days more at half the dosage(50mg and 20mg respectively). I did not experienced any side effects except for sweating at night. BTW my appetite has increased the more I eat the less full I am.

[jamyjamjr]

okay... so you've never done a test only cycle huh??

[Aizen Sosuke]

Nope. What do you suggest? As long as I don't have to pin more than 2 a week please. I am still not ready for propionate and acetate esters. Thanks.

[ninesecz]

can anyone say .........Diet Forum!

[jamyjamjr]

Nope. What do you suggest? As long as I don't have to pin more than 2 a week please. I am still not ready for propionate and acetate esters. Thanks.

12 weeks test e only... 600mg a week... 300 monday, 300 thursday...

[Aizen Sosuke]

Got it. Will do except at 500mg/week for 12 weeks. If I don't see results I will increase the dosage then to 600mg/week. I'll keep proviron on at around week 4-12 just in case. What gains should I expect from this after PCT and all? I'm hoping for 10-15lbs. Also I changed the potato in breakfast for sweet potato and upped the whey protein dosages. Cannot get rid of the soy and regular milks yet though. The shakes taste like crap without them. Also I just weighed myself I'm at 170lbs right now so I've gone up 3lbs in the last 2 weeks. I'll keep restructuring the diet and hopefully I'll be at 175lbs around december when I plan to cycle. PS one last thing. I measured my BF% with calipers and it was 9%. Then my electronic scale says 20%. That's not even close. Anyways would you guys be able to estimate more or less if I post a pic? If so how the hell do you post one? Thanks in advance.

[jamyjamjr]

try to remember thx to the heavy ester when you inject 250mg of test e your actualy only injecting around 175mg of test.. this is why i tell people to shoot for 600

you can easily keep a clean 15lbs at the end if you do it right..

my last test only cycle i did i gained 30lbs and held on to about 22 of them.. pretty good..

post a pic

[Aizen Sosuke]

You got an email man.