27 yrs old w/108 test levels...HRT Im coming!

[ollerroc11]

Hey guys

Here is what I have going on. Hypothyroidism diagnosed about 6 months ago. Endo put me on .75 mcg's of Synthroid, hasnt done crap. Feel as bad as I did before. Blood work reads as follows:

FSH - 1.4
LH - 2.1
Total Test- 108 (including 9 for my SBHG)
Prolactin- 17.2
Cortisol- 19.8
IGF-1 - 118

I will post the other stuff later. Just got bloodwork done today, so new results should be around the same. Never taken steroids, eat pretty clean, exercise 5-6 times a week, cardio is around 150 minutes a week. I want to compete for bodybuilding, which is how I train, but I cant lose the body fat it seems at all. My diet is pretty much spot on, and I have a nationally ranked guy helping me. Weight is 347 and body fat via hydrostatic testing was 33.7%. I am looking to weigh in at the top of the light heavies, but at the pace I am at now with results, aint gonna be a while.

I am trying to get my endo to 1- put me on cytomel to increase t3 production, 2- Get on 125-150mg's of Test C 3- Try to get doc to put me on Hgh around 1-2 iu's day...

Just wanted to say how bad this disease sucks, and that it feels like Im spinning my wheels at the gym. I wanted to get my story out here so younger guys can follow it, and for those who have advice, I would love to hear it. Im not looking for a cycle, Im looking to get my life back...

[Tenebrous]

Hi ollerroc. Best of luck with this.

Based upon your body fat, low SHBG, and low TT results, I'd ask if you could post your cholesterol numbers. Your numbers suggest possible metabolic syndrome, especially the low SHBG. I mention this because I've got the metabolic syndrome myself. Some recent studies have demonstrated that low SHBG and low TT are strong predictors of metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome will typically present with low HDL cholesterol, high triglycerides, among other things.

I myself am dieting aggressively since I started TRT like 3 weeks ago. Hoping when I get my BF down my own numbers will improve. Most of my starting numbers were comparable to yours. I don't have hypothyroidism but my doc suggests I might have "subclinical hypothyroid" because my TSH is over 3. I don't know much about clinical hypothyroid but my foremost submission would be get that BF down, down, down. High BF like that wreaks havoc. I feel 1000% better when my BF is reasonable.

Keep us posted!

[aer_vlad]

No offense, but your diet is NOT in check - you're 33% BF. You're (very) over weight.

Losing body fat will certainly help your hormone imbalances - could even be the primary cause. And don't tell me you're fat BECAUSE of your hormones. Progress can be made in the gym with low testosterone/thyroid.

[ollerroc11]

Tene,

I will ask my Endo about this and see what he says. That is very helpful information and I appreciate it! I know my chol. levels were in check, but exact I dont have right now. I will get those for you soon.

Vlad,

No offense chief, but I wasnt asking for you nutritional advice, and unless you eat every meal with me, you have no clue what I eat. My diet has been worked over by a nationally ranked bodybuider, and I update weekly with where my progress is. I know what I eat down to the calorie, if I have a cheat meal, I eat subway. I dont eat ice cream (lactose intol.), cookies, cake or other goodies. I have an allergy to high fructose corn syrup, so that takes care of that. yes, my body fat is high, but my lean body mass is still ovder 215...may I ask you what massive size you are>? I carry fat on me, but I take offense to you saying Im fat. I love advice from pro's like you

Im not blaming my excess fat b/c of my hormone imbalance, but it does make it diff to lose the body fat and weight. Dont tell me about training. I have competed in powerlifting for 5 yrs, then got into bodybuilding. I have been lean, I know what it takes to diet down for 25 weeks, go through competition hardships...but the past few years, my weight has steadily gone up, though I work hard to keep it down. I have made progress, but it has been sig. hindered from the lack of the hormones that most people have. Unless you've lived it, dont comment on this topic big boy.

[Tenebrous]

My pleasure Olle. I figured you had to be really muscular at 347 and 33.7% bf. I would only weigh something like 220 at 33.7%.

If you're lipid profile is all good then you can probably just disregard what I said about metabolic syndrome. I only mention it because I saw the low SHBG. Mine is 8. I'm at 20% BF, but its mostly visceral fat which is another big indicator is metabolic syndrome. Its worth reading about, if only because there are some threads out there about difficulty with TRT in people with low SHBG. I'm really hoping my numbers improve when I get my BF down.

Anyways.

It would be great if you could turn this thread into a TRT log and keep us posted on your progress. When you get lean you'll be unstoppable.

[Vettester]

What is your TSH value? Has that score improved since you've started your meds? Get with your doctor if that prescription isn't doing the job and look at something else. Thyroid issues are a biatch! Thank God I haven't ever had any, but I know several who have.

Do the best you can for the time being. You've got a long way to go to get in the single digits on BF for competition. Aim for some short term goals too to take the steps you need to meet your long-term vision. Keep working with a trainer, hopefully he is setting a realistic pace for you with where you are currently at. I used to train with a former BB in the 90's, and he pushed one guy so hard that the poor dude got a hernia and was laid up for months. Hopefully your guy is considerate to your personal program that fits your situation.

Best!

[ollerroc11]

Tene,

I am looking forward to grabbing my paperwork so I can update on the lipids. 75% of my body fat is just like yours, carried through my stomach. I also know the adverse things that brings, which makes me want to get this off as soon as I can. Im in the same boat, and I think my issues will hopefully be completely gone by the time I am lower than 12% body fat. Your advice and support means a lot bro, thanks!

Vette,

TSH value - 2.796.
t4- 8.9
t3 uptake- 35.8
fti- 3.2
free test- 34.3
free test % - 3.2
SHBG- 9
Ferritin- 13
Iron- 36

TSH level hasnt changed that much. Still feel almost the same as I did before I started the Synthroid. Sucks! Ya bro, I am not rushing it at all. The way I see it is, I didnt put the weight on overnight, nor will it come off overnight.

I am running a diet that looks like this for, I plan, about 40 weeks.

3 protein shakes:

1 cup fat free milk
1/2 cup oats
2 scoops protein

If shake is after 3 pm, I drop the oats.

2 meals:

8 oz chicken
1.5 cup veggies (spinach/green beans)

Each meal is kept under about 420 calories each one. I eat around 2100 calories day. I hope by the end of the year, that I will be competing, but if not, I still will be down a lot. I have short 4 week goals to keep me going, and mid range goals of 18-20 weeks. My guy is pretty good. Thanks bro! Your posts are a great read with good info, so thanks guys!

[zaggahamma]

No offense, but your diet is NOT in check - you're 33% BF. You're (very) over weight.

Losing body fat will certainly help your hormone imbalances - could even be the primary cause. And don't tell me you're fat BECAUSE of your hormones. Progress can be made in the gym with low testosterone/thyroid.

not always the case

[durak]

I have copy of the Quick Weight Loss Center diet (the one Rush Limbaugh used) PM or email me and I will send some info.

[zaggahamma]

I have copy of the Quick Weight Loss Center diet (the one Rush Limbaugh used) PM or email me and I will send some info.

i would never recommend a quick weight loss

[ollerroc11]

Durak,

I appreciate the info man, but I have to agree with jpk on this one...I didnt put it on overnight, nor do I expect to lose it overnight. I have worked hard for my muscle and plan on keeping as much of it as I can. I feel my diet is more than in check, and once I get everything working as it should, I know it will fall off like my trainer anticipates.

Thanks guys!

[aer_vlad]

The fact that you're 33% BF doesn't necessitate what you eat, but primarily how much you eat. If you eat 2100 kcals/day, I find your high body fat suspicious: 1) your calorie counting is wrong or 2) you're not 33% BF - probably the latter.

BTW, I'm not here to post some e-stats in hopes of raising my ego.

Have you had a cortisol stim test? You might be suffering from some sort of adrenal fatigue (often paired with hypothyroid).

[durak]

i would never recommend a quick weight loss

its relative to how you use the information. If you doubled portions the weight loss would not be so quick (or adjusted them to 2100 calories a day). I dare say doing the diet he is suggesting for 40 weeks would not be healthy either. You need variation in what you eat over time.

[ollerroc11]

The fact that you're 33% BF doesn't necessitate what you eat, but primarily how much you eat. If you eat 2100 kcals/day, I find your high body fat suspicious: 1) your calorie counting is wrong or 2) you're not 33% BF - probably the latter.

BTW, I'm not here to post some e-stats in hopes of raising my ego.

Have you had a cortisol stim test? You might be suffering from some sort of adrenal fatigue (often paired with hypothyroid).

Vlad,

I appreciate your input, but I am not new to the game of lifting and dieting. Not my first rodeo. I understand how to count calories, as I could sit here and tell you each calorie that is in what I eat. It is 2100 day. Im not looking to raise my ego, Im just telling you again, I am not a newbie in the world of training, and by you assuming I dont know how to count calories, doesnt strike my fancy. Hydrostatic testing, pinch test and Electro testing all put me above 30%. The highest was 33% via underwater testing.

To answer your question, no, I have not had a cortisol stim test.

I dont mean to be a smart ass, but I am wanting to perform at the highest level at the gym, and it is beyond aggrivating when people assume I eat ho ho's or twinkies, or my portion size is off. My group of guys I train with all know who I am and what I am about. I know what goes into my body, and I know how hard I train. I wouldn't be so worries if my diet was off or I didnt exercise like I should, but that isnt the case.

Something is going on that is hindering the gains & losses in the gym...I do appreciate the thought on the adrenal though, interesting.

[Bio-Active]

Tene,

I am looking forward to grabbing my paperwork so I can update on the lipids. 75% of my body fat is just like yours, carried through my stomach. I also know the adverse things that brings, which makes me want to get this off as soon as I can. Im in the same boat, and I think my issues will hopefully be completely gone by the time I am lower than 12% body fat. Your advice and support means a lot bro, thanks!

Vette,

TSH value - 2.796.
t4- 8.9
t3 uptake- 35.8
fti- 3.2
free test- 34.3
free test % - 3.2
SHBG- 9
Ferritin- 13
Iron- 36

TSH level hasnt changed that much. Still feel almost the same as I did before I started the Synthroid. Sucks! Ya bro, I am not rushing it at all. The way I see it is, I didnt put the weight on overnight, nor will it come off overnight.

I am running a diet that looks like this for, I plan, about 40 weeks.

3 protein shakes:

1 cup fat free milk
1/2 cup oats
2 scoops protein

If shake is after 3 pm, I drop the oats.

2 meals:

8 oz chicken
1.5 cup veggies (spinach/green beans)

Each meal is kept under about 420 calories each one. I eat around 2100 calories day. I hope by the end of the year, that I will be competing, but if not, I still will be down a lot. I have short 4 week goals to keep me going, and mid range goals of 18-20 weeks. My guy is pretty good. Thanks bro! Your posts are a great read with good info, so thanks guys!

You may want to drop those protein shakes and add in real food. The more food your body has to digest the more calories burned. Its just my 2 cents but when i drooped the shakes for food i was able to drop another 20 pounds working within the same macros. Best Jim

[aer_vlad]

Vlad,

I appreciate your input, but I am not new to the game of lifting and dieting. Not my first rodeo. I understand how to count calories, as I could sit here and tell you each calorie that is in what I eat. It is 2100 day. Im not looking to raise my ego, Im just telling you again, I am not a newbie in the world of training, and by you assuming I dont know how to count calories, doesnt strike my fancy. Hydrostatic testing, pinch test and Electro testing all put me above 30%. The highest was 33% via underwater testing.

To answer your question, no, I have not had a cortisol stim test.

I dont mean to be a smart ass, but I am wanting to perform at the highest level at the gym, and it is beyond aggrivating when people assume I eat ho ho's or twinkies, or my portion size is off. My group of guys I train with all know who I am and what I am about. I know what goes into my body, and I know how hard I train. I wouldn't be so worries if my diet was off or I didnt exercise like I should, but that isnt the case.

Something is going on that is hindering the gains & losses in the gym...I do appreciate the thought on the adrenal though, interesting.

I never said you ate Ho Ho's and Twinkies - you can certainly get fat by eating chicken, rice, and almonds (Calories in vs. Calories out). Why do you feel the need to keep validating yourself?

If your concerned about "perform[ing] at the highest level at the gym," I suggest you lose weight. Insulin resistance (increased resistin) decreases protein synthesis and lipolysis, not to mention hormonal imbalances. You realize 25%+ BF constitutes obesity? Hell, weight loss should be important just for overall health purposes.

[ollerroc11]

I never said you ate Ho Ho's and Twinkies - you can certainly get fat by eating chicken, rice, and almonds (Calories in vs. Calories out). Why do you feel the need to keep validating yourself?

If your concerned about "perform[ing] at the highest level at the gym," I suggest you lose weight. Insulin resistance (increased resistin) decreases protein synthesis and lipolysis, not to mention hormonal imbalances. You realize 25%+ BF constitutes obesity? Hell, weight loss should be important just for overall health purposes.

It seems like in the argument, I know you are but what am I... Heres the thing Vlad, I didnt say you said I eat that stuff, nor really do I care. If I validated, so be it. Maybe my self esteem is SO low I need to do that.

I understand about calories in and calories out...Your suggestion about losing weight is probably the best advice I have heard yet. Seriously, I came on this board to talk about HRT and TRT, and wanted to post my diet. I dont care too much about your thoughts on the diet. The guy that has my best interest in mind, and considering his prereqs, I think Im ok. 25% is obese, so is my BMI. I dont die on the treadmill running, can do a 5k without needing oxygen.

Unless you can post something relevant about HRT or TRT, I truly could give a rats ass about your thoughts and opinions. The bottom line is: My lbm is still pretty good, being over 220. I have weight to lose, no shit. I didnt want to gain it like I did, but I am still happy with my gym routine and how things are going. Thanks for the headsup about the obese thing

[ollerroc11]

Jim

I have thought about dropping two of the shakes and putting food in place of it, but I am going to keep on the track that I am on right now, and see how being consis with this and hopefully some sort of HRT and TRT will do. Great advice by the way!

[aer_vlad]

It seems like in the argument, I know you are but what am I... Heres the thing Vlad, I didnt say you said I eat that stuff, nor really do I care. If I validated, so be it. Maybe my self esteem is SO low I need to do that.

I understand about calories in and calories out...Your suggestion about losing weight is probably the best advice I have heard yet. Seriously, I came on this board to talk about HRT and TRT, and wanted to post my diet. I dont care too much about your thoughts on the diet. The guy that has my best interest in mind, and considering his prereqs, I think Im ok. 25% is obese, so is my BMI. I dont die on the treadmill running, can do a 5k without needing oxygen.

Unless you can post something relevant about HRT or TRT, I truly could give a rats ass about your thoughts and opinions. The bottom line is: My lbm is still pretty good, being over 220. I have weight to lose, no shit. I didnt want to gain it like I did, but I am still happy with my gym routine and how things are going. Thanks for the headsup about the obese thing

I'm just sayin' losing weight may help your natural levels of testosterone. HRT is infinite in nature. In other words, you're committed for life. I'd rather avoid HRT after exhausting all other options - but that's my opinion. Each to his own.

Your thyroid is fairly high though. T3 levels, assuming you posted in mcg/dL, are venturing towards overactive thyroid. T4 is only on the upper end, which is odd with high T3 and 75mcg of levothyroxine. Have you tried Amour (natural T3/T4 medication)?

[Vettester]

One concern that I have will be the E2 conversion isue you might face while on TRT. The current BF status will be prone for higher E2 levels. The TRT will definitely enhance this process. Would suggest just having your plan put together to address this subject when you're TRT is in place.

Love your ferritin levels at 13. Mine are down in the 700's now, used to be 1,500.

[ollerroc11]

I'm just sayin' losing weight may help your natural levels of testosterone. HRT is infinite in nature. In other words, you're committed for life. I'd rather avoid HRT after exhausting all other options - but that's my opinion. Each to his own.

Your thyroid is fairly high though. T3 levels, assuming you posted in mcg/dL, are venturing towards overactive thyroid. T4 is only on the upper end, which is odd with high T3 and 75mcg of levothyroxine. Have you tried Amour (natural T3/T4 medication)?

Thanks for the good post. I dont want to be on TRT or HRT for indefinite. I agree with you that my body fat could be the cause of the low T. My thoughts were increase my T levels, drop the body fat as quickly and safely as I can while sparing as much muscle, then hopefully my test levels will be back to normal once my body fat is below 10%. I want to be around 8% and maintain that. I havent tried Amour, but I have heard good things about it. I asked my nurse at the Endo, and she said that it is on some sort of back order...they cant get it in, or maybe she said that is was real expensive...who knows.

I think the majority of the issues stem from the BF, but it is insanely hard dropping the BF like I need to without some sort of normal ranges...any thoughts?

I think that I am opposed to HGH right now, b/c if my levels are low b/c of the high body fat, then I dont want to run the risk of messing up the pituitary...feedback?

[ollerroc11]

Update

Here are my updated levels as of today..Doc is going to run a full test panel this time and I will have those numbers in about a week.

Free Test (Direct)- 5.7L
TSH- 3.31
Triiodothyronine,Free Serum-4.1
T4,Free (Direct)-1.60

Sooooo, Doc feels thats test is low, but that full TRT is not the answer. He believes, like I do, that my body fat being 33% is the cause of the low test. He said it is a vicious cycle...A ton of stress produces excess cortisol, cortisol helps keep the fat on, fat on keeps body fat higher, fat high keeps testosterone low which help keeps fat on, causing more stress which releases more cortisol....

So, I have decided to stick to a clean diet and not vary from it. Thats first thing. We talked about time frame and we are thinking about running the test for between 20-40 weeks. He feels as myk weight comes down, the body fat will come down and the test levels will dramatically increase. I agree.

So, I was wondering if you guys would run any AI with 250mg's of Test E or C and what have you guys done about cycle length. Water retention is a concern, so I know I need to keep the water higher, but do you guys take any water pill or natural supp like dandelion root?

[SlimmerMe]

seems to me your IGF-1 measuring 108 is very low for 27 years old---doesn't anyone else see this number?

[zaggahamma]

seems to me your IGF-1 measuring 108 is very low for 27 years old---doesn't anyone else see this number?

yes...it does seem low..mine was 222 at age 37 not sure how igf-1 plays into the whole scheme of things though to tell u the truth..i know i'd like all my levels to be where they should be...to replace igf-1, he would need growth hormones, right? prolly need a anti age clinic for a script for that

[ollerroc11]

Update

Just got new numbers back in, not sure what they are yet. Ordered a full test panel so I am waiting to hear back from the nurse to find out what the numbers are. I know they want me to come in for I/M shots, and she said that my levels were low, so who knows. Problem with getting this doc to prescribe now is we are moving and I know he wants to treat me...Just dont think he will give me more than a few shots before I leave. Hope I can find a good doc in Florida! Will post numbers as quickly as I can get them!

[durak]

Update

Just got new numbers back in, not sure what they are yet. Ordered a full test panel so I am waiting to hear back from the nurse to find out what the numbers are. I know they want me to come in for I/M shots, and she said that my levels were low, so who knows. Problem with getting this doc to prescribe now is we are moving and I know he wants to treat me...Just dont think he will give me more than a few shots before I leave. Hope I can find a good doc in Florida! Will post numbers as quickly as I can get them!

email me duraktrt at gmail if you want to switch to trt by mail and local blood work.