Off Cyp, and onto HCG

[TrennK]

So, its been a while since ive posted.

Ive been doing TRT for several years at 200mg Cyp 2x a week. So now my doc and I have decided to get off the Cyp, and go onto HCG cause my nuts r gone, and when i ejaculate, its drops, not loads.

*protical= 1000ui twice a week. 1-10ml bottle a month. (really 28days)
1 Arimidex ED.

*So im thinking, will i get the benifits from HCG at this dose, like i did from CYP? Also, id like to do the HCG diet, since im already on it. Is the 2000ui a week to much to do the diet, since ive read no more then 200ui a day? Is there a way to tailor my weekly dose to also be able to do the diet? Or did I just shoot myself in the foot switching to HCG from Cyp?

[nwjt]

Its interesting, one thing I learned here is tha 200 mg two times per week is a CYCLE of steroids, not TRT. I think your doc screwed you up man.

I wish I could get that dose but there is no way I would run it for years, I would cycle off and on to keep my nuts and keep the sides away.

I am curious though, how long before shrinkage started, and what size are they now? Also, the semen come from the seminal vesical, not the testes, so I am suprised semen volume would decrease with testical size.

Odd. Please keep me posted on if the HCG works, I have no idea about yoru questions but I am very interested if it causes your ballz to grow back.

[Vettester]

I personally think your doctor did you injustice by not giving you HCG in conjunction with your TRT. At that dosage (200mg x 2/wk) I would imagine your testes are like raisins. You could easily cut back the Test dosage and add 250iu x 3/wk throughout your TRT program and never go off of the Test. Just my .02 on the matter.

You mentioned "1 Arimidex ED". I sure hope you don't mean 1mg of Adex ED.

[TrennK]

Sry, just noticed thats a typo:

200mg week (100mg x2)

* i was on Cyp (not anymore), I dont do them both together, doc took me off Cpy, and put me on HCG now. 5 weeks so far.

[TrennK]

I personally think your doctor did you injustice by not giving you HCG in conjunction with your TRT. At that dosage (200mg x 2/wk) I would imagine your testes are like raisins. You could easily cut back the Test dosage and add 250iu x 3/wk throughout your TRT program and never go off of the Test. Just my .02 on the matter.

You mentioned "1 Arimidex ED". I sure hope you don't mean 1mg of Adex ED.

Yes, one tab Arim a day, I am prone to gyno, Est lvls get over 90, if i dont take it everyday.

[TrennK]

Its interesting, one thing I learned here is tha 200 mg two times per week is a CYCLE of steroids, not TRT. I think your doc screwed you up man.

I wish I could get that dose but there is no way I would run it for years, I would cycle off and on to keep my nuts and keep the sides away.

I am curious though, how long before shrinkage started, and what size are they now? Also, the semen come from the seminal vesical, not the testes, so I am suprised semen volume would decrease with testical size.

Odd. Please keep me posted on if the HCG works, I have no idea about yoru questions but I am very interested if it causes your ballz to grow back.

Well, been on the HCG for 5 weeks now, and nutz deff have come back from grape size to almost size of walnut, and load is much larger now.

[TrennK]

So what im asking is if any1 thats been on HCG has done the "HCG Diet"
and how could I adjust my dose to run it for a few weeks?

2nd question was, will i get any results from HCG, like i did from Cyp?

[tubs]

So what im asking is if any1 thats been on HCG has done the "HCG Diet"
and how could I adjust my dose to run it for a few weeks?

2nd question was, will i get any results from HCG, like i did from Cyp?

hcg diet is a joke.

hcg will nothing at all like the things trt will but could help depending on why you were on trt in the first place

[Vettester]

So what im asking is if any1 thats been on HCG has done the "HCG Diet"
and how could I adjust my dose to run it for a few weeks?

2nd question was, will i get any results from HCG, like i did from Cyp?

1st Q ... I'm on HCG, but only for HRT purposes. I've really heard nothing good about the HCG diet. From what I gather, they put you on something like 500 calories a day, then say that the HCG made you lose weight. IMO, a super low calorie diet like that will make anyone lose fat ... Don't see where the HCG is adding any value to it. Plus, I personally think that losing a ton of weight really quick isn't the healthy way to go.

2nd Q ... Depends. Is the HCG stimulating the testes to produce as much testosterone as when you were on the Cyp? I guess that can only be compared to your BW results. Can you share those numbers? I did HCG by itself and didn't like it. I now take 300iu x 2/wk, and I run 200mg/wk of Cyp. Best of both worlds, and no long-term worries like desensitization from using too much HCG.

[TrennK]

1st Q ... I'm on HCG, but only for HRT purposes. I've really heard nothing good about the HCG diet. From what I gather, they put you on something like 500 calories a day, then say that the HCG made you lose weight. IMO, a super low calorie diet like that will make anyone lose fat ... Don't see where the HCG is adding any value to it. Plus, I personally think that losing a ton of weight really quick isn't the healthy way to go.

2nd Q ... Depends. Is the HCG stimulating the testes to produce as much testosterone as when you were on the Cyp? I guess that can only be compared to your BW results. Can you share those numbers? I did HCG by itself and didn't like it. I now take 300iu x 2/wk, and I run 200mg/wk of Cyp. Best of both worlds, and no long-term worries like desensitization from using too much HCG.

Well, i was off trt for 2yrs, and when i went back to Doc, my Test levels were really low, total was 20. went back on cyp, and was able to get up to 600, by 200mg a week. My goal is to get my levels close to that with the HCG, and to avoid the total shut down of the nuts again, cause I do want children in the future. Once i get my lelvels consistant, I might do as you did, and toss in the 200mg cyp a week with the current 2000ui week of HCG to maximize benifits.

[TrennK]

Just got back from seing the Doc today, got my T-lvls back and after 5 weeks 2000ui a week of HCG my levels went from little over 600, to 202,

-Hes bumping it up to 3000ui a week, re-test t-lvls in a few weeks.

[nwjt]

Just got back from seing the Doc today, got my T-lvls back and after 5 weeks 2000ui a week of HCG my levels went from little over 600, to 202,

-Hes bumping it up to 3000ui a week, re-test t-lvls in a few weeks.

202 ain't bad. I'm 32 and have 290 raw.

[Vettester]

Sorry dude, 202 sucks!

This protocol concerns me. That's plenty enough HCG, and going higher will only increase your chances to desensitize the leydig cells (if this area isn't damaged already).

Did your doctor check your LH score prior to putting you TRT?

[TrennK]

Sorry dude, 202 sucks!

This protocol concerns me. That's plenty enough HCG, and going higher will only increase your chances to desensitize the leydig cells (if this area isn't damaged already).

Did your doctor check your LH score prior to putting you TRT?

Not this time, but i know he did once I switched 5 weeks ago, and it was fine he said, i will have to check my paperwork and see if the LH lvls are listed there. as far as TRT, ive been on it @ 200mg cyp week for last 5 yrs.

[nwjt]

How long before you noticed testicular atrophy?

[Vettester]

Not this time, but i know he did once I switched 5 weeks ago, and it was fine he said, i will have to check my paperwork and see if the LH lvls are listed there. as far as TRT, ive been on it @ 200mg cyp week for last 5 yrs.

If the LH levels were fine then I don't quite understand his objective for all the HCG. It almost sounds like you're desensitized.

With 2000iu of HCG you should have seen some sort of increase. Is this the only time you've taken HCG during the 5 years of TRT?

[TrennK]

If the LH levels were fine then I don't quite understand his objective for all the HCG. It almost sounds like you're desensitized.

With 2000iu of HCG you should have seen some sort of increase. Is this the only time you've taken HCG during the 5 years of TRT?

Yes, this is the first time i have ever taken HCG. The idea is to get T-lvls in 600-700range, while not shutting my nad's off, cause I plan on having children in the next 2 yrs.

SO, while on the Cyp, i was shut down hard, and I didnt like that, So he switched me to the HCG 5 weeks ago, to get my levels up, and keep me running. Which is really what I wanted. I didnt like Having junk the size of peas,

The boys have grown almost back to were they were b4 I started TRT 5yrs ago. It took like 3-4mnths b4 I really noticed them srinking, by a yr, they were gone,

[Vettester]

It's great that they're growing ... The concern is that they're not generating any Testosterone, or very little to speak of. Maybe it just takes time ... I dunno. Hoping your doctor will be the one that knows. I just know that my "T" score would be well above 700 if I did anything close to what you were doing.

[TrennK]

It's great that they're growing ... The concern is that they're not generating any Testosterone, or very little to speak of. Maybe it just takes time ... I dunno. Hoping your doctor will be the one that knows. I just know that my "T" score would be well above 700 if I did anything close to what you were doing.

The 202 lvl was on the day of my next shot. He did BW b4 i took the shot to see what my low was. Next BW will be on day of shot, just after I take it to see what my high is. Worse case, i can use these numbers to convince him to maybe do like 1-2kui a week, with the 200mg Cyp. I dont think the high HCG dose is going to be long term, maybe like 18-24mnths, just to get my gear working again and stable, so i can go back to the Cyp TRT for the long term, maybe adding low dose of hcg. Everything is still pending on what the numbers say.

[TrennK]

It's great that they're growing ... The concern is that they're not generating any Testosterone, or very little to speak of. Maybe it just takes time ... I dunno. Hoping your doctor will be the one that knows. I just know that my "T" score would be well above 700 if I did anything close to what you were doing.

It might be cause Im using APP, but he Just switched me today to Novarel. Everything Ive read says App is bunk. Guess we will see, next month or so.

*OT- I know this might sound newb'ish, but ive been away from BB and forms for last few yrs (gotten utterly Lazy) but, I dont recall, if down the road I add winny Inj 50mg EOD, if it will increase my T-lvls? while on TRT with either the Cyp, or the HCG?

[H20poloCM]

Just to add a late note to this one. There is no such thing as a hcg diet! However people have exploited a side effect of the drug...Appetite suppression.
You are essecially creating a starvation diet plan, and will quickly regain most of the weight, as ive seen many girls rebound and add even more weight.
At 200iu the drug is minimal with the desired effect.
clinics have found the south beach, atkins and other similar diets to be effective, but again it is a starvation diet, and the plans scheduling 1lb of weight loss a day limit caloric intake to 500calories!

[Jupiter2]

I could be wrong about this but from everything I've read concerning HCG there is a significant danger, as Vette stated, with desensitzation of the Leydig cells when using high doses of HCG for a prolonged period. Also high doses of HCG have been found to raise estrogen levels a bit more than Test levels. The fact that you were using Test for such a long period without the use of a product like HCG to keep your testicles working suggests to me that there is probably a limit to what it can be expected to do for you now.

There is a product that I've recently discovered and will be talking to the folks at the clinic I am involved with called HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadtropin). It affects FSH while HCG primarily affects LH. From what I've read there are definite benefits to running the two of them together in order to get the testes working. But again having gone so long without doing anything to keep your testes functional in the first place I'm not knowledgable enough to say it will be the answer to your problems.

Do a little bit of research on it and then see if your doctor is aware of it.

[Vettester]

There is a product that I've recently discovered and will be talking to the folks at the clinic I am involved with called HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadtropin). It affects FSH while HCG primarily affects LH. From what I've read there are definite benefits to running the two of them together in order to get the testes working.

Do a little bit of research on it and then see if your doctor is aware of it.

Jupiter, I'm not familiar with this stuff ... Thanks for posting. I'll do some homework on it.

[EZ E]

What are your LH and FSH numbers? Your testes are working again at least somewhat (remember you were on TRT for a reason so you may never get to a 600 test level without exogeneous test). Like everyone is saying you don't want to desensitize them, so it is time to see if your pituitary is sending any signals of its own to the testicles. If not, get on Clomid and take a break from the HCG. Realistically, the goal is to get you fertile so you can have a kid and then go back on TRT. It is doubtful that your own production will ever be high enough again.

Good luck.