Extreme estrogen! Help!

[Zippon]

Alright, I have been put on Clomid 25mg by an urologist who claims it should lower my estrogen levels.

Tests before therapy:
Testosterone 6.67 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
LH 4.60 mME/ml (1.24 - 7.80)
FSH 0.70 mME/ml (1.00 - 13.58)
Estradiol 58.5 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0) - huh?
SGBH 49 nmol/l (13-71)
DHEA-S 8.44 mcmol/l (7.60 - 17.40)
B-hCG <1.0 mME/ml (0.0 - 2.5)

After 10 days on Clomid I was supposed to pause for 10 days, do a hormone panel on 14th day and resume Clomid for days 20-30.

A few days after I started Clomid I started having puffy nipples, which my doctor said is impossible since Clomid is an anti-estrogen.

On 14th day I did my panel again:
Testosterone 11.7 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
Estradiol 118 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0)
Prolactin 5.8 ng/ml (2.1 - 17.7)

WHY? Or are such numbers normal mid-therapy? Should I start AI (e.g. Armidex)? Or get another doc?!

Help!

[SilverTest]

well first of all get another doc, because clomid does NOT lower estrogen, it only blocks it at the receptor. To lower estrogen you need an aromatase inhibitor like arimidex, aromasin or letro.

you obviously produce a lot of estrogen naturally, the clomid you took raised your test which actually raised your estrogen.

more testosterone means there is more to convert = more estrogen.

[stevey_6t9]

yeh i agree ^

just excess e2 from aromatization.

[forrest_and_trees]

Is it really possible for E2 numbers to jump that quickly? If so I don't feel so bad now, and neither should you Zippon, my e2 numbers from a couple weeks ago were *167* and that was *while* I was taking an herbal AI. Obviously it was useless. But I had also been taking 50mg of DHEA daily and 200mg Test Cyp weekly and my Total T numbers were in the 1100's. [I started at 174 about a year ago.] So I suppose that would explain my ridiculously high E2 numbers. I should have been giving milk for cripe sake. I am on Arimidex now, [Thank God!] took my second .25 pill slice today. Looking forward to the new numbers in 6 weeks when it's time for my next blood work. Just thought I'd share that with you to help put some perspective on your situation.

Anyway Zippon, I'm newer to this stuff than some of these guys but from what little i know, I'd have to agree, get on the Arimidex. And if you cant get your doctor to prescribe it, well I think there's you answer to your other question.

[Vettester]

Let me get this straight, your doctor is giving Clomid to you as a Anti E???

I'd dump this guy like a bad habit. Your "T" is increasing causing the E2 to rise as well.

The good news is you can get on a real AI that will lower your levels. If not through your doc then get it through ARR in the red banner at the top of the page.

[Bio-Active]

let me get this straight, your doctor is giving clomid to you as a anti e???

I'd dump this guy like a bad habit. Your "t" is increasing causing the e2 to rise as well.

The good news is you can get on a real ai that will lower your levels. If not through your doc then get it through arr in the red banner at the top of the page.

^^ x 2

[Zippon]

Ok, an update.

Doc told me to increase the dosage of Clomid and retest in 2 weeks. Didn't manage to ask him about Arimidex.

What do you think of that course of action? Any chance of my estradiol actually going down on clomid only?

Or should I purchase Arimidex ASAP?

[Noles12]

Ok, an update.

Doc told me to increase the dosage of Clomid and retest in 2 weeks. Didn't manage to ask him about Arimidex.

What do you think of that course of action? Any chance of my estradiol actually going down on clomid only?

Or should I purchase Arimidex ASAP?

Have you read the posts prior to this one. Clomid will not lower it, it simply blocks it at the receptors. You need to get rid of the guy. Higher clomid will just bring side effects

[n00bs]

Ill say it again,

Arimidex = stops t converting into oestrogen
Climid stops oestrogen working at receptors it does not stop the covnerison of t to e2 what so ever!


RUN now really fast!

When a bunch of random blokes on a forum know more then your doctor something is wrong..

First of all you are seeing a uroligist? WHY?

You need to find an anti aging dr they are mroe switched on then endocronologists because they beleive unless there is a * next to a lab vlaue all is peachy...

[Zippon]

Have you read the posts prior to this one. Clomid will not lower it, it simply blocks it at the receptors. You need to get rid of the guy. Higher clomid will just bring side effects

Yes, I have read the thread. It's just that I am not fond of dismissing the medical professional out of hand. During my own research I came to the same conclusions: Clomid won't lower estrogen much (it will increase Test/E2 ratio though).

I guess I will have to use Arimidex. Can I run it together with Clomid? Or should I ditch the latter and just go Arimidex?
What dosage, for how long?

[forrest_and_trees]

I can't speak to the questions about Clomid however, as for the Arimidex, starting with .25 a day, every other day for the first two weeks, then up to .5 EOD for a following 4 weeks would be a good start. Check your E2 numbers at the end of 6 weeks and go from there.

[n00bs]

Yes, I have read the thread. It's just that I am not fond of dismissing the medical professional out of hand. During my own research I came to the same conclusions: Clomid won't lower estrogen much (it will increase Test/E2 ratio though).

I guess I will have to use Arimidex. Can I run it together with Clomid? Or should I ditch the latter and just go Arimidex?
What dosage, for how long?

Do not run a serm with an AI... Asking for touble

[Zippon]

Update!

I decided to trust my doc and ran 10 more days of clomid 50mg/day. Then rested 4 days and made a retest.

Well, crap.

Testosterone 14.0 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
Estradiol 139 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0)
DHT 3800 pg/ml (250 - 990)

A few days after I stopped clomid I started feeling itchy in my breasts and one of them was hot. The doctor said that he has no idea what's going on, and no, high estradiol couldn't possibly cause this. So I bought Arimidex and started 0.5mg EOD. Symptoms gone after the first pill.

But high DHT is an issue for me. I have lots of hair all over my body and.. not so much at my head. I'm using anti-DHT shampoo, but with this recent increase my hair started falling out again after almost 8 months of stable but slow regrowth.

It would be good to use Finasteride, but I'm concerned about combining it with Arimidex. Your suggestions?

[stevey_6t9]

Update!

I decided to trust my doc and ran 10 more days of clomid 50mg/day. Then rested 4 days and made a retest.

Well, crap.

Testosterone 14.0 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
Estradiol 139 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0)
DHT 3800 pg/ml (2.1 - 17.7)

A few days after I stopped clomid I started feeling itchy in my breasts and one of them was hot. The doctor said that he has no idea what's going on, and no, high estradiol couldn't possibly cause this. So I bought Arimidex and started 0.5mg EOD. Symptoms gone after the first pill.

But high DHT is an issue for me. I have lots of hair all over my body and.. not so much at my head. I'm using anti-DHT shampoo, but with this recent increase my hair started falling out again after almost 8 months of stable but slow regrowth.

It would be good to use Finasteride, but I'm concerned about combining it with Arimidex. Your suggestions?

I dont see the problem using both for a moderate amount of time.

[BJJ]

Update!

I decided to trust my doc and ran 10 more days of clomid 50mg/day. Then rested 4 days and made a retest.

Well, crap.

Testosterone 14.0 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
Estradiol 139 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0)
DHT 3800 pg/ml (2.1 - 17.7)

A few days after I stopped clomid I started feeling itchy in my breasts and one of them was hot. The doctor said that he has no idea what's going on, and no, high estradiol couldn't possibly cause this. So I bought Arimidex and started 0.5mg EOD. Symptoms gone after the first pill.

But high DHT is an issue for me. I have lots of hair all over my body and.. not so much at my head. I'm using anti-DHT shampoo, but with this recent increase my hair started falling out again after almost 8 months of stable but slow regrowth.

It would be good to use Finasteride, but I'm concerned about combining it with Arimidex. Your suggestions?

1.
Assuming you are going still to the same doctor who gave you clomiphene citrate to lower your estradiol, I would change doctor ASAP.

2.
What you felt in your nipples was due from progesterone. I would check that level too.

3.
Also, that level of DHT makes no sense to me if compared to your serum testosterone. I would check that again.

[BJJ]

Alright, I have been put on Clomid 25mg by an urologist who claims it should lower my estrogen levels.

Tests before therapy:
Testosterone 6.67 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
LH 4.60 mME/ml (1.24 - 7.80)
FSH 0.70 mME/ml (1.00 - 13.58)
Estradiol 58.5 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0) - huh?
SGBH 49 nmol/l (13-71)
DHEA-S 8.44 mcmol/l (7.60 - 17.40)
B-hCG <1.0 mME/ml (0.0 - 2.5)

After 10 days on Clomid I was supposed to pause for 10 days, do a hormone panel on 14th day and resume Clomid for days 20-30.

A few days after I started Clomid I started having puffy nipples, which my doctor said is impossible since Clomid is an anti-estrogen.

On 14th day I did my panel again:
Testosterone 11.7 ng/ml (2.86 - 15.10)
Estradiol 118 pg/ml (19.0 - 56.0)
Prolactin 5.8 ng/ml (2.1 - 17.7)

WHY? Or are such numbers normal mid-therapy? Should I start AI (e.g. Armidex)? Or get another doc?!

Help!

both of them

well first of all get another doc, because clomid does NOT lower estrogen, it only blocks it at the receptor. To lower estrogen you need an aromatase inhibitor like arimidex, aromasin or letro.

you obviously produce a lot of estrogen naturally, the clomid you took raised your test which actually raised your estrogen.

more testosterone means there is more to convert = more estrogen.

...x2

[Zippon]

Ok, I messed up the reference values for DHT. My results are:
DHT 3800 pg/ml (250 - 990)
Still, four times too much.

I won't go to that doctor again, don't worry. But I have some strange hormonal issues to fix.

I will retest test+E2+prog in a week - an increase in test effected by clomid should pass by then - to see if finasteride is necessary.

Thank you for your comments!

[BJJ]

Ok, I messed up the reference values for DHT. My results are:
DHT 3800 pg/ml (250 - 990)
Still, four times too much. yes, but now it makes sense

I won't go to that doctor again, don't worry. good call But I have some strange hormonal issues to fix.

I will retest test+E2+prog in a week - an increase in test effected by clomid should pass by then - to see if finasteride is necessary. keep us posted

Thank you for your comments!

bold

[Zippon]

Alright, guys, I'm back.

Even since I've done clomid my estrogen remains sky-high!

Here are the results from my previous tests:

Testosterone 04/08/2010 10.90 ng/ml 2.86 - 15.10
Estradiol 04/08/2010 73.6 pg/ml 19.0 - 56.0

Testosterone 02/09/2010 7.14 ng/ml 2.86 - 15.10
Prolactin 02/09/2010 7.2 ng/ml 2.1 - 17.7
Estradiol 02/09/2010 61.9++ pg/ml 19.0 - 56.0
Progresterone 02/09/2010 0.48 ng/ml 0.27 - 0.90

Then I started eating zinc which is supposed to be a mild aromatase and 5-AR inhibitor. And BAM!

Testosterone 13/10/2010 7.24 ng/ml 2.86 - 15.10
Estradiol 13/10/2010 79.3++ pg/ml 19.0 - 56.0

Worse than ever. (T/E ratio).

I tried Arimidex, but it barely lowered my Estradiol! I am starting to suspect that this insane amount of estrogens is not due to aromatization.

Your ideas?

[n00bs]

So what is it due to then? Do you have ovaries?

[n00bs]

So how old are you?


Have you used aas?

Whats your cortisol, thyroid hormones?

Are you 1billion% certain that DHT number is correct?

You said you tried adex, how long for a few days? Things take time.... How much did you try you need to post more info on your protocols otherwise no one has any idea whats going on.

[Zippon]

Well, there are estrogen-secreting testicular tumors...

My thyroid is perfect (checked this week), so is my cortisol. The only issue is high estradiol and DHT; the numbers for DHT are correct, why do you ask, are they unrealistic?

I started on 0.5mg once every three days, chekced in two weeks - E2 was a bit lower, but so was TT. Then I switched to 0.5mg every other day, stayed on it for two weeks, retested my hormones and here I am.

[Vettester]

So what is it due to then? Do you have ovaries?

I love it - ROFLMAO ... I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question.