1st cycle bulking or cutting?

[dolce4]

hello, a friend of mine recently mentioned this website and I found it very useful in all the information provided. He suggested decca and dbol - I'm 24, weigh 185lbs at 5'10 with 15% bodyfat, this is the lowest I've weighed since I've been dieting trying my best to cut down to 12% at least, my family has a pretty big build and I usually weight around 200lbs+ - He told me I wouldn't need any cutting or fat loss steroids since my bf is already relatively low and adding some muscle would definitely get rid of it while adding size (is this true? I really just wanna get lean and then bulk however I choose). For a beginner, is both steroids too much? are they the best option in my case? he said 'if you do decca you gotta do dbol' then again I think he's experienced with steroids.

sooo I asked some questions to an online seller and he suggested this...

if your metabolism is high you will not carry much water retention whatever you take, if you do carry a little it will fall off when you finish the cycle, id suggest to start:

2ml sustanon 250 per week for 6-8 weeks
4ml deca 200 per week for 6-8 weeks
5 x 10mg dbol per day (for strength)

pct:

1 anavar
1 tamoxifen

after I explained I gain muscle, weight pretty easily he said

if you really want to cut down fat then id not suggest to take the sus as this will make you put weight on and carry water, maybe you should do some clen and trenbolone then if your looking to lose body fat and put on lean muscle.


what do you guys think?

thanks for the help.

[D7M]

Do NOT take anything at this point.

I know you're getting alot of conflicting advice and your head is swimming with info, so just take your time, read around here, and don't take anything yet.

Every single one of those "cycles" you mentioned are horrible, and that PCT is equally poor.

And fyi, all steroids are designed to make you gain weight, your diet/training/cardio schedule is what will dictate your results.

[marcus300]

Do NOT take anything at this point.

I know you're getting alot of conflicting advice and your head is swimming with info, so just take your time, read around here, and don't take anything yet.

Every single one of those "cycles" you mentioned are horrible, and that PCT is equally poor.

And fyi, all steroids are designed to make you gain weight, your diet/training/cardio schedule is what will dictate your results.

Looks like you covered everything ^^^

agreed

[dolce4]

thanks, that's why I'm trying to get all the info I can. should I do the clen and trenbolone you think? I don't mind putting weight, I'm always gonna workout until I can't no more - I've just been stuck at this 15%, I've gotten stronger and bigger but I'm (I think, and got lots of info on) running a really good diet consisting of 1600 cal 180g protein, 120 carbs for a while now and it's making very very very very slow progress (could just be due to my hard training) - you think clen and the trenbolone are good to get me past this plateau and help me get to 10-12% bf? if not, what would you suggest?

thanks again.

[D7M]

Again, NO. Don't do the tren and clen. That's a horrible cycle.

You need to go post your diet in the diet forum, because 1600 cals a day is nothing, even cutting. My girl cuts on more cals than that!

[dolce4]

lmao, again this is the lowest I've ever weighed and that's the lowest I eat...between 1600-2100 cals. I promise my training is good and my diet is not bad at all, everybody looses the last few pounds differently...I've tried a lot of things, HIIT, eating more, eating less, and my bf remains the same (in example, if I eat more clean foods, I'll easily weigh 203 lbs with the same bf maybe 15.4 or so) clearly my diet is obviously not as perfect as it should be so I'm wondering in your opinion, what is a good starter cycle to get lean?? I really wanna get past these 15.1% level I read in my monitor every morning haha.

seriously though.

[D7M]

Honestly there is something wrong with your diet and or training whether you want to admit it or not.

Getting from 15% tp 12% is really not that difficult at all.

What's your cardio schedule? Training? Specifics of the diet?

[MBMETC]

cardio, cardio, and more cardio, and when you can't do any more cardio do more cardio

[Johnyonemove]

pct:
1 anavar1 tamoxifen

LQBM (laughing quietly by myself). Worst PCT advice I have seen yet. Recovering from your cycle is equally important to the cycle itself. Check out this link and read as many of the threads you can until your head swims some more and then read again.

http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...TIONAL-THREADS

[dolce4]

I know there's something wrong with my diet (obviously.) I lift 3-4 times a week and do HIIT 3 times a week, I eat around those calories so I burn off more than I take, like I said its been really slow progress but it works. I started taking oxyelite pro by usp labs and it has actually helped, I don't think ANYBODY has the time or ability (unless you're a bodybuilder) to have and maintain a perfect diet. That's why I wanted to get rid of this last fat and start bulking from there (obviously going from 15% to 12% is difficult for me, haha) never the less, I appreciate the honesty and advice on those cycles. MBMETC if I get on my treadmill one more time, I'm gonna set the &*$* on fire.

I have friends that got pretty lean without cardio and I know their diet aint perfect (unless it consists of beer, alcohol, and chicken wings.) Like I said, everybody body is different so I was looking for a cycle to stimulate whatever it is that I'm not burning fat efficiently enough.

[RaZr]

Maintaining a perfect diet is simple enough as long as you plan ahead, you do not need to be a pro body builder to do it.

[dolce4]

ohh and the pct is actually

1 anavar
1 tamoxifen

1 tab of each per day for 30 days.

[dolce4]

If there is such thing as a 'perfect' diet, I don't know it. I'm in law school or if not working most of the days of the week but for kicks ill try posting later something I would eat on an average day.

I should have posted, what is a good cutting cycle recommended for a beginner? lmao

[RaZr]

You are aware that Anavar is a steroid right? Are you sure pct was not clomid and tamox?

[MBMETC]

I know there's something wrong with my diet (obviously.) I lift 3-4 times a week and do HIIT 3 times a week, I eat around those calories so I burn off more than I take, like I said its been really slow progress but it works. I started taking oxyelite pro by usp labs and it has actually helped, I don't think ANYBODY has the time or ability (unless you're a bodybuilder) to have and maintain a perfect diet. That's why I wanted to get rid of this last fat and start bulking from there (obviously going from 15% to 12% is difficult for me, haha) never the less, I appreciate the honesty and advice on those cycles. MBMETC if I get on my treadmill one more time, I'm gonna set the &*$* on fire.

I have friends that got pretty lean without cardio and I know their diet aint perfect (unless it consists of beer, alcohol, and chicken wings.) Like I said, everybody body is different so I was looking for a cycle to stimulate whatever it is that I'm not burning fat efficiently enough.

don't compare yourself to others you'll go insane, i hear ya on the treadmill can you use a starimaster

[The Hyena]

ohh and the pct is actually

1 anavar
1 tamoxifen

1 tab of each per day for 30 days.

now i see why this board seems like everyone is in a bad mood, yall get these same questions over and over, and all you have to do is read the board and learn how to do a proper cycle and PCT...

ps. this is a horrible cycle and worse PCT, dont mess up yuor body man, just read up use the search read the sticky's and take notes...

[dolce4]

ahhh ok, I just started researching this 3 days ago - those were the emails sent to me, I posted them so others could give me their opinions; clearly a bad idea.

MBMETC, are you trying to give me relationship advice and tell me to get my ass on a stairmaster. wtf is this the ugly truth. hahaha, thanks for all the posts - I shall research and find me an appropriate cutting cycle.

peace.

[D7M]

I keep asking you for specific information on your diet, training and cardio schedule, and you just keep asking for the "best cutting cycle".

Steroids aren't magic. You can't just cut fat without doing anything, or having a sub par diet and training.

[dolce4]

dude, I'm just trying to get the info relax.

8 am - one scoop nitro core 24, banana
10 am - turkey, ham, cheese on wheat bread
11 am - yogurt
1 pm - 3 cans of tuna (in oil), crackers
4pm - one scoop nitro core 24
5pm - oats/ or a ham cheese on wheat bread
6:30 pm - one scoop whey protein (after lifting)
8:00 pm - 2 fish fillets, salad or vegetables
10:00 pm - one scoop casein

190g protein, 130g carbs, about 1900 cals

thanks for the steroids aren't magic, I actually read the Arnold book and thought they were. I think everybody has that much common sense to know you cant cut fat without dieting or training.

no beef brother.

[jla1986]

Read read read then read some more. All the info you need is on here. 80 % of gaining weight is a good base diet or you will lose everything you gained, then you will be really mad. You can take all the juice in the world but if you dont have the proper nutrition it wont do shit for you. "You cant build a house with out wood, you cant build a body with out the right food."

[MBMETC]

dude, I'm just trying to get the info relax.

8 am - one scoop nitro core 24, banana
10 am - turkey, ham, cheese on wheat bread-
11 am - yogurt-plain greek yogurt would be ideal
1 pm - 3 cans of tuna (in oil), crackers tuna in water and loose the crackers
4pm - one scoop nitro core 24
5pm - oats/ or a ham cheese on wheat bread- theres that ham again
6:30 pm - one scoop whey protein (after lifting)add some oats and maybe a bannana in here i blend them all together
8:00 pm - 2 fish fillets, salad or vegetables- like mcdonalds, fresh caught would be better
10:00 pm - one scoop casein

190g protein, 130g carbs, about 1900 cals

thanks for the steroids aren't magic, I actually read the Arnold book and thought they were. I think everybody has that much common sense to know you cant cut fat without dieting or training.

no beef brother.

bold for starters

[dolce4]

the yogurt is yoplait (greek), sometimes I mix the oil and water tuna, I like the crackers but I hear ya, the protein shake I usually blend it with a banana but why oats if I just had it before my workout, and seriously mcdonalds fish fillets...come on.

[dolce4]

ohhh yeah whats wrong with a little ham to go with the turkey. I don't think my diet is all that bad, and that's actually something I can prepare and eat everyday with no problem.

[MBMETC]

i just dont feel ham has a place in a cutting diet, but then again i don't like ham
oh i see the 500pm meal was pre wo, c'mon the diet blows
lean protiens and complex carbs ie yams, brown rice, oats, beans. toss in some vegies, efa's and piece of fruit and your g2g
besides the oats and tuna in water the bananna and the yogurt everything else is proccesed foods, i guessing the meats are like baors head and not fresh roasted ham or turkey

[dolce4]

alright, thanks for the word.

[Flier]

"thanks for the steroids aren't magic, I actually read the Arnold book and thought they were. I think everybody has that much common sense to know you cant cut fat without dieting or training."

Guys, I rarely hear you mention HGH. I would say HGH IS magic.
With a good diet and workout schedule, 4 months with daily 4 iu´s should work wonders, and bring u right down to 12%

[dolce4]

steroids aren't magic?!?! haha thanks guy, I guess I kinda understand the 'mood' of some but I'm not some kid with no experience, commitment, or desire and just looking to juice up...like I said, I just started looking into this 3 days ago and this is the process of learning about it. I'm looking into Kigtropin, obviously I been on this site all day reading shit - what I don't get is why some said the first cycle suggested by this seller was crap since steroid.com novice cycle #2 suggest the same thing.

Testosterone Cypionate/400- 500 mg

Deca/200 - 400 mg

D-Bol/35 mg/day

so I'm wondering the same thing I asked from all the experienced weight trainers in the beginning, what would be a good way to start?

could I start with the novice cycle #2 suggested by this site or try out this HGH you mentioned..

[Flier]

I´m a first timer like you, and will be doing the novice cycle #1, however I will be adding HGH.
I´ve been reading online for a couple of months, and gotten a lot of advise from guys at the gym.
Novice cycle #1 is what´s being repeated on a dozen website as a perfect beginners cycle, and the most conservative I´ve found.
HGH because of all it´s wonderful properties and low/no side effects, and being an awesome stack with Test.
Here is my cycle:

HGH: 4iu 6 days per week for 6 months.
After 2 months on HGH: Cypionate, 250 mgs every 4 days for 11 weeks.
When starting Cypionate, I also start D-bol: 20 mgs ED for 30 days.
Nolvadex if needed, and PCT admin. by my Andrologist (HCG and Clomid)

I´m now 2 weeks into HGH.

Re. Deca.....just don´t like some of the things I´ve read. Sides can be greater by stacking with Deca. Didn´t like what I read about Deca on steroid.com

[VA703]

Just sent you an email with some advice dolce

[dolce4]

thanks for that, what kind of hgh you recommend? kigtropin? and isnt 6 months too long? how is the hgh working out for ya?

va703 for some reason I can't check my inbox - says I don't have permission to access this page. you mind posting it here, would really help thanks.

[Johnyonemove]

steroids aren't magic?!?! haha thanks guy, I guess I kinda understand the 'mood' of some but I'm not some kid with no experience, commitment, or desire and just looking to juice up...like I said, I just started looking into this 3 days ago and this is the process of learning about it. I'm looking into Kigtropin, obviously I been on this site all day reading shit - what I don't get is why some said the first cycle suggested by this seller was crap since steroid.com novice cycle #2 suggest the same thing.

Testosterone Cypionate/400- 500 mg

Deca/200 - 400 mg

D-Bol/35 mg/day

so I'm wondering the same thing I asked from all the experienced weight trainers in the beginning, what would be a good way to start?

could I start with the novice cycle #2 suggested by this site or try out this HGH you mentioned..

You need to learn to GROW into those doses. why take so much now when just a little can make a huge dif. Like all drugs ur body will become tolerant and as it does you add more compounds. I dont see the purpose of trying to pin like someone who has been cycling for years. I just finished a Test only cycle and gained 25 lbs of lean muscle and I'm keeping most of my gains in PCT because I'm paying attention on here. Don't do what you want, this isnt bullsht advice.

[Flier]

I´m only 2 weeks into my HGH. They say 2 months before you start noticing effect. However I did HGH only cycle a year ago, and noticed effect after 1 month.
I leaned up really nice, gained some size and strength, my sleep was deep and solid. The rest of HGH effects will come after years of use (Hormone replacement therapy....Sylvester Stallone), like improved skin, hair, sexual function, alertness, memory...and so on. You really turn the clock back. I am convinced at a later stage of my life, I will be on HRT, even though I don´t "need" it, but just because I want to feel and function great when I´m 70.
This time I´m adding some Test, to bulk up. I want another 20 lbs. Was unsure about the D-bol, but.......I´ve read that 20 mgs ED will give me a nice "kickstart" with "no" sides...
6 months too long?.....I can´t find anything on HGH that 6 years are too long. I produce natural HGH at night during REM sleep, and I do my HGH injection first thing in the morning. 4iu´s is very little, and should produce no sides.
I´m in Europe, so I have easy access to Danish HGH, which supposed to be really good. The US have a good products too, a friend of mine is getting what I think is called Somatropin. A common HGH prescribed to Aids patients. He gets pharma grade from the backdoor of a pharmacy. I get mine from a trusted source at the Gym. Stay away from Asian HGH. Whenever you get your products, get it from a trusted source.

[dolce4]

If I wanted to do what I wanted I wouldn't be here, never the less, I think this thread will serve good for anybody looking to start...I'm gonna start with the testosterone, and hgh for sure (thanks for that) - I'm not sure about the dbol, but at least now I know a good pct. I can get somatropin but I keep reading kigtropin is better or at least I read more about it.

thanks again.

[dolce4]

first timer, I'm curious to why you started with 250mgs every 4 days rather than the suggested dose 400mgs a week. anybody sees this as better for starting a cycle? and how come the novice cycle #1 in this site include a pct?? it just mentions to have nolvadex handy

should I take 10 or 20 mg of nolvadex along with some vitamin v-6 100-200mg everyday?

I see you are gonna run HCG and Clomid for post cycle...

[Kiki]

Forget about the deca or dbol if you're trying to cut, most people gain water and it will confuse you seeing your weight go up and looking bloated.

[dolce4]

another cycle a user emailed me...

A test only cycle is the way to go for your first.

Some like to add an oral like dbol in the first 4 weeks and that is okay. I prefer to add an oral like anavar or winstrol in the latter part of the cycle for two reasons. One it can help harden up your gains and if run properly you can go right into pct without having to wait two weeks for the long estered test to clear.

I'd suggest something like this.

Wk 1-12 test cyp 400-500mg per wk
Wk 9-14 winstrol 50mg ED
Wk 3-15 adex .25mg EOD
start pct 3 days after last dose of winstrol using nolvadex and clomid. Run the nolva 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25.

I told him the same I told you guys and he said winstrol is a great addition to help me get cut and I could leave the dbol out of it, up to me.

[RaZr]

Winstrol Is a kind of waste if you don't lower your body fat before your cycle

[Flier]

I have heard/read that it´s better to split the Cyp dose in 2, so that means 2 injections/week. So since I happen to be a very anal numbers guy, I need to have equal spacing between shots, hence 2 injections per week will trigger an OCD reaction, since 7 is an odd number :-)
I planned my 45iu vials of HGH such that 1 vial last 2 weeks, hence 3.75iu´s per day.
I draw 3 days worth into each syringe.
250 every 4 days will give me 400-500 per week. I got 10,000 mgs, so it will last me about 11 weeks. The injections will fall on different days, have them programmed in my Iphone :-)
You mean, why does Novice cycle NOT include PCT? I´m sure he just forgot to put it in there. Of course you want to do PCT. Get your factory working as soon as possible after the cycle....now it´s all about keeping those gains, and if you let your free test fall below the scale, you´ll lose muscle fast. HCG to immediately kickstart your testicles into production, and clomid to make your Pituary to start sending those LH signals to your tests again.
No reason to take Nolvadex unless your nipples start itching.
No need to worry about a little water retention from Dbol....only 30 days, and the continuance of HGH after the cycle, will keep me ripped.
I have no personal experience, this is all stuff I´ve read and heard the last few months.

[Flier]

I see a lot about using HCG during the cycle and not PCT.
I may do that, but want my Andrologist´s opinion first.