Does anyone know what this is????

[jon rock]

I just bought these two exercise machines called; hydragym
one is a bench and looks like a ham string machine but label says hip flexor extensor.
the other one is this huge thing that weighs about 250lbs. it looks like some kind of squat machine or somthing. the woman i bought it from said its a arm machine but i tried and there is not way to do arms on it.


i dont have pic so i drew it on paintshop have a look maybe i shoul be a computer graphics designer

[jon rock]

P.S. I PAID THIRTY DOLLARS FOR BOTH PIECES.

[Adrock]

Its really hard to tell from you picture. I will take a guess at it and say its some sort of deadlift machine. I really don't know, a better picture would help.

[Aragorn]

Looks like you might be able to do shrugs with it....

I love the ingenuity of that pic...cracking me up

Aragorn

[Warrior]

Hydrolic Pistons?!? Looks like you won't be getting any decent negatives. The whole problem with machines is they don't allow you to take the negative range of a movemeent - where the most benefit comes form and possibly could help hyperplasia (increasng muscle fibers), and not just hypertrophy (increasing fiber size).

You'd just be pumpin' away at those pistons and they would bring the weight down for you. I have nearly beatin' the shit out of a spotter that helped me get a forced rep but then proceeded to help on the negative.

But for 30 bucks you could upsell it

[brad fuel]

Warrior, you don't believe in ISOKINETIC workouts?

[jon rock]

here is a pic of the other contraption. any thoughts on its use?

[jon rock]

picture

[jon rock]

another

[Aragorn]

WTF You're cracking me up with these pics hahahah

Sorry bro I have no idea what these are I had to come back to see the drawings

Aragorn

[Warrior]

Originally posted by brad fuel
Warrior, you don't believe in ISOKINETIC workouts?

IsoKinetic movements, where the negative (eccentric) and the postive (concentric) is equal. Do I believe in it. Sort of...

I believe too many people forget the negative by letting it fall - the negative should be lowered in a controlled fasion. Slowly. So both ranges do get worked. However, it is common belief today that the negative is what stimulates the most growth - not the positive. In fact, if it is possible to create hyperplasia (increase the number of muscle fibers) than cusing severe trauma to the muscle is the key. And slow negatives have shown to do this quite well.

All AAS induces hypertrophy (increased fiber size) as does training in general. But a lot of research today goes into possible ways to actually increase the number of fibers, which is normally thought to be based on genetics. And negatives seem to be showing some decent results. I have a theory that spot injections may actually do this in the healing of an affected muscle but I don't have the resources to prove it

A lot of misinformation about training was passed in the 70's along with removing fats from foods and replacing them with sugar. And the isokinetic machines like Nautilis and Cybex worked off the current theories - and why not? They were easy for the average Joe to figure out. I believe that Isokinetic Machines are only suitable for bodybuilders in finishing movements to get a final burn. Isokinetic also eliminates the sticking point... again just making it easier. Sticking points or weak spots need to be worked too.

Reminds me of a recent workout ... I recently worked out with a buddy of mine. We were doing Standing Barbell Curls and he wasn't fully extending his arm out. When I put some 5lbs under his elbows and forced him to go all the way down - he was stuck! He had a huge sticking point going from the positive to the negative. But anyway...

The real benefits in this are for entry level athletes and rehabilitation of injured athletes. I believe strength and hypertrophy can be properly obtained for these two training groups. Otherwise, IMO the basic isokinetic theory can be better used by simply controlling the negative in any exercise.

[brad fuel]

I was thinking more along the line of hydraulic machines since i think that's what Jon Rock has purchased here. So going with these types of machines, the person only benefits how much they put in. They're SUPPOSE to push as hard as they can through out the whole range of motion. But if you have a lazy guy push with about half that force, the bar will still move at the same speed. I do'nt think there is any doubt that isokinetic training does increase strength. So maybe it's not how much weight you're lifting or force your're producing, but instead how hard you're trying as in Nerve Stimulation. Possibly it's nerve stimulation that leads to muscle adaptation, not force production.

Think of it this way, You lift weights using a pyramid method. If muscle adaptation is based on force production, why do you bother to go down the pyramid? You're lifing less weight than when you're at the top of the pyramid so is there really any point?

Another thing I heard about is a experiment where they switch the nerves of the gastroc and the soleus. As your probably know the gastroc is mostly type2 fibers and teh soleus is type1 fibers. After they switched the nerves, the fibers began to switch as well.

I don't totally believe in isokinetic workouts (nor do i do them) but these are just some things to think aobut. Make discussion.

[MBaraso]

Nice pictures lol I have no idea what these things are though.
If these machines where any good you probably would have paid more then $30 for em lol

[jon rock]

i think i will turn it into a bench press machine by removing the piston and putting free weights on it. i guess its not so bad because the pieces will make my home gym look very up scale lol

[jon rock]

thanks for the help everyone. here is one more pic for you.

[Warrior]

Originally posted by brad fuel
I was thinking more along the line of hydraulic machines since i think that's what Jon Rock has purchased here. So going with these types of machines, the person only benefits how much they put in. They're SUPPOSE to push as hard as they can through out the whole range of motion. But if you have a lazy guy push with about half that force, the bar will still move at the same speed. I do'nt think there is any doubt that isokinetic training does increase strength. So maybe it's not how much weight you're lifting or force your're producing, but instead how hard you're trying as in Nerve Stimulation. Possibly it's nerve stimulation that leads to muscle adaptation, not force production.

Sure. Kind of like Static or Isometric Contractions. You are pushing against a load that ain't going anywhere. Simply holding a full contration for 6-12 seconds for totals of 60-90 seconds per muscle group per session. This has been shown to improve strength but no reaf effect on endurance - it targets fast twitch. This was another old training theory - but deffinitly does recruit fibers, the fast twitch for strength. Basically, yes... when recruit the muscle fibers - they are effected either by increasing endurance, forcefullness, or hypertrophy.

In fact, I have not dipped into this much and maybe I will work in some of it and see how well it works for me... the static contractions...

Think of it this way, You lift weights using a pyramid method. If muscle adaptation is based on force production, why do you bother to go down the pyramid? You're lifing less weight than when you're at the top of the pyramid so is there really any point?

The Pyramid is a good way to add load - but don't like the Double Pyramid or the Scewed Pyramid (where the load is increased followed by a decrease), it simply keeps you on the same exercise too long. The Double Pyramid was an attempt to burn out. Maybe okay if that is all you are doing but I think a person should move on to a new movement. Going back down is an attempt to get those slow-twitch and the non fatigued fibers to still jump in and get some - but like I said the normal Pyramid should just get used again in a different movement for that bodypart.

The Flat Pyramid is making a strong comeback! Like in German Volume Training. 10 sets of 10 reps of the same load. Have you tried it? It is frickin' amazing. By the 6-7 set you start to ware down and then something crazy happens - it suddenly gets easier again! Like at about the 7-8 set. People have used this (including myself) and gained great strength (and size) every workout. Right now I use it as a light intensity day for nearly everybodypart... if you ahve never tried GVT - you're missing out. It is an old method from the Eastern Bloc Olympic lifters I believe...

Another thing I heard about is a experiment where they switch the nerves of the gastroc and the soleus. As your probably know the gastroc is mostly type2 fibers and teh soleus is type1 fibers. After they switched the nerves, the fibers began to switch as well.

I don't totally believe in isokinetic workouts (nor do i do them) but these are just some things to think aobut. Make discussion.

Yeah - these conversations are great.

[Billon]

go to another gym!
change the "old ladies"-gym to "the big boys"-gym!