First Cycle (re-post staff approved)

[Lazarov]

Test E 400mg weeks 1-12
Arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-13
HCG 500mg/week weeks 2-13

PCT - Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

Is Nolva sufficient for PCT, should I add Clomid? Or not really necessary. Thanks.

[ScotchGuard02]

You should add clomid, it's a good idea. I run PCT for 4 weeks it's normally enough. Clomid 100/50/50/50 should be good enough along with 4 weeks of nolva.

[Lazarov]

You should add clomid, it's a good idea. I run PCT for 4 weeks it's normally enough. Clomid 100/50/50/50 should be good enough along with 4 weeks of nolva.

Yes, I was originally planning a 4 week PCT. But then I read the sticky (I try to read a lot of them) by Swifto, stating that according to some recent studies 6 weeks is better. But I have no idea what the right option is. Just sharing what I've read. Thanks for your advice Scotch.

[Lunk1]

Yes add clomid and 4 weeks of PCT on this test only cycle is plenty. Clomid 100/50/50/50

Start PCT 14 days after last injection

[Matt]

Cycle looks good mate as stated i would also add clomid....

The ai i would just keep on hand, i don't normally need an ai on such a low cycle. If you start to experience elevated estrogen levels then start the armidex....

Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress....

[Lazarov]

Cycle looks good mate as stated i would also add clomid....

The ai i would just keep on hand, i don't normally need an ai on such a low cycle. If you start to experience elevated estrogen levels then start the armidex....

Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress....

I've read on several threads that nolva and clomid do pretty much the same thing, but that Nolva is more effective and that Clomid has more serious side-effects like vision impairment. What do you think?

And also, a lot of people on here say that if you feel breast tenderness (elevated estrogen levels) it's already too late. You don't think taking adex throughout at a low dose like .25mg EOD is a good idea?

[Lunk1]

I've read on several threads that nolva and clomid do pretty much the same thing, but that Nolva is more effective and that Clomid has more serious side-effects like vision impairment. What do you think? They bind to different receptors so use both. Better safe than sorry!

And also, a lot of people on here say that if you feel breast tenderness (elevated estrogen levels) it's already too late. You don't think taking adex throughout at a low dose like .25mg EOD is a good idea?

YES run your AI through the cycle...at the dose you suggested. Thsi will help with other sides too like high BP, cholesterol and gyno. Again better to be safe than sorry!

[Swifto]

Combine the SERMs, people tend to have better effects combining them than either alone. Why? Because they do different things.

Aromasin 10mg/ED whilst on, not on hand, run it. Its cheap and a better choice than Arimidex.

[Lazarov]

YES run your AI through the cycle...at the dose you suggested. Thsi will help with other sides too like high BP, cholesterol and gyno. Again better to be safe than sorry!

Cool, will do.

[Lazarov]

Combine the SERMs, people tend to have better effects combining them than either alone. Why? Because they do different things.

Aromasin 10mg/ED whilst on, not on hand, run it. Its cheap and a better choice than Arimidex.

I already bought the Adex. If it's a huge difference I'll buy the Aromasin too.

[Lunk1]

I already bought the Adex. If it's a huge difference I'll buy the Aromasin too.

Aromasin is a bit stronger but remember your cycle is not huge and he adex will do you fine as well. ! or the other is good for most.

[Lazarov]

Aromasin is a bit stronger but remember your cycle is not huge and he adex will do you fine as well. ! or the other is good for most.

Cool, if I ever do another cycle, I'll consider Aromasin.

[Lunk1]

Cool, if I ever do another cycle, I'll consider Aromasin.

Not to get you fired up again...not my intent at all! I really hope you reconsider this decisio at your age. If I didnt truelly care about your health than I would just so venture forth and good luck.

I REALLY think you can make your goals without taking these unneccessary risks. This isn't coming from a hypocrite that did it and now tell you not to. This is from nearly a 40 year old man that waited till he was 35 or so and felt that natural potential was slipping away with age.

I would love to see you do some posting in nutrition and in the lifting forums and see if there is some tweaking that can get you what you want without risk. I mean is it more important to reach your goals or more important to say your on steroids. Again...no reason to blow up. I'm just speaking from the heart (and no I am not trying to be your parent) just a responsible adult.

[Lazarov]

What about HCG 500mg/week weeks 2-13? I believe I read somewhere Swifto that you thought this was a good idea to keep the testes online. The other option I've read about is taking higher amounts of HCG during the two weeks leading up to PCT. Thoughts?

[MuscleInk]

I already bought the Adex. If it's a huge difference I'll buy the Aromasin too.

Different strokes for different folks. Adex is fast acting and easier to tolerate for most people. It has a 46hr half life so doses from .25-.50mg EOD are adequate. Recommended starting dose is .25mg EOD.

Aromasin is more effective but a suicide inhibitor and can permanently alter receptor integrity so I use it as a last resort.

[MuscleInk]

Not to get you fired up again...not my intent at all! I really hope you reconsider this decisio at your age. If I didnt truelly care about your health than I would just so venture forth and good luck.

I REALLY think you can make your goals without taking these unneccessary risks. This isn't coming from a hypocrite that did it and now tell you not to. This is from nearly a 40 year old man that waited till he was 35 or so and felt that natural potential was slipping away with age.

I would love to see you do some posting in nutrition and in the lifting forums and see if there is some tweaking that can get you what you want without risk. I mean is it more important to reach your goals or more important to say your on steroids. Again...no reason to blow up. I'm just speaking from the heart (and no I am not trying to be your parent) just a responsible adult.

I agree with Lunk. OP was encouraged to wait but he is clearly hell bent on doing this. It's your decision but your age the risks of impairing your endocrine system are not in your favor.

[Lazarov]

Not to get you fired up again...not my intent at all! I really hope you reconsider this decisio at your age. If I didnt truelly care about your health than I would just so venture forth and good luck.

I REALLY think you can make your goals without taking these unneccessary risks. This isn't coming from a hypocrite that did it and now tell you not to. This is from nearly a 40 year old man that waited till he was 35 or so and felt that natural potential was slipping away with age.

I would love to see you do some posting in nutrition and in the lifting forums and see if there is some tweaking that can get you what you want without risk. I mean is it more important to reach your goals or more important to say your on steroids. Again...no reason to blow up. I'm just speaking from the heart (and no I am not trying to be your parent) just a responsible adult.

I got upset because that other guy was being rude, that's all. Anyways, I really do appreciate your concern. During these next few months I'll try to find out EXACTLY how big a risk it is to do ONE cycle of test.

[Lunk1]

I got upset because that other guy was being rude, that's all. Anyways, I really do appreciate your concern. During these next few months I'll try to find out EXACTLY how big a risk it is to do ONE cycle of test.

I remember you asked Austinite who told you what happened to him after one small test cycle. Read his thread about what hppened. If that doesnt change your mind thn nothing will

[Lazarov]

I remember you asked Austinite who told you what happened to him after one small test cycle. Read his thread about what hppened. If that doesnt change your mind thn nothing will

Yes, I did read his thread. But the skin pigmentation on his back isn't something that happens all the time. It's pretty strange and unfortunate.

[Lazarov]

Different strokes for different folks. Adex is fast acting and easier to tolerate for most people. It has a 46hr half life so doses from .25-.50mg EOD are adequate. Recommended starting dose is .25mg EOD.

Aromasin is more effective but a suicide inhibitor and can permanently alter receptor integrity so I use it as a last resort.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

[Swifto]

Different strokes for different folks. Adex is fast acting and easier to tolerate for most people. It has a 46hr half life so doses from .25-.50mg EOD are adequate. Recommended starting dose is .25mg EOD.

Aromasin is more effective but a suicide inhibitor and can permanently alter receptor integrity so I use it as a last resort.

Aromasin won't lower IGF and impact lipids as much either.

If you have to dose an AI EOD or a few times per week, Arimidex and Letro would be the choice, but why would you have to do that in the first place.

Their outdated against Aromasin.

[Swifto]

I got upset because that other guy was being rude, that's all. Anyways, I really do appreciate your concern. During these next few months I'll try to find out EXACTLY how big a risk it is to do ONE cycle of test.

There is getting upset and there is blatant flaming and going over board. I hope you get punished for your nonsene.

I've been here a long time and never lost my cool with another members and blatantly flamed them like you did. Learn to control yourself or get lost.

[Swifto]

Not to get you fired up again...not my intent at all! I really hope you reconsider this decisio at your age. If I didnt truelly care about your health than I would just so venture forth and good luck.

I REALLY think you can make your goals without taking these unneccessary risks. This isn't coming from a hypocrite that did it and now tell you not to. This is from nearly a 40 year old man that waited till he was 35 or so and felt that natural potential was slipping away with age.

I would love to see you do some posting in nutrition and in the lifting forums and see if there is some tweaking that can get you what you want without risk. I mean is it more important to reach your goals or more important to say your on steroids. Again...no reason to blow up. I'm just speaking from the heart (and no I am not trying to be your parent) just a responsible adult.

How old is he?

[Lunk1]

Yes, I did read his thread. But the skin pigmentation on his back isn't something that happens all the time. It's pretty strange and unfortunate.

I agree Austinites case is an extreme but I can think of a fist full of guys who are dealing with symptoms ranging from high Bp and high cholesterol to extreme cases of ED and of course being on TRT for life. Many from ONE cycle that was done way too young. I bet there are even more that will not come forward. It's just a simple case of cost outweighing the benifit.

Again I urge you to please consider your age and the risks associated with AAS use at an early age before making your decision. I will not harp on it any longer.

[Lunk1]

How old is he?

21 yo

[Lazarov]

I'm 21 Swifto.

[fit2bOld]

What about HCG 500mg/week weeks 2-13? I believe I read somewhere Swifto that you thought this was a good idea to keep the testes online. The other option I've read about is taking higher amounts of HCG during the two weeks leading up to PCT. Thoughts?

Run the HCG 250 iu 2x/week up to pct.

The old HRT guy says you should hold off????

[Swifto]

I'm 21 Swifto.

My advice to you (if you care to take it) is not to cycle. Yes, I cycled at 19 years of age and now at almost 27 I wish I didnt. Why? Because I got such bad acne that I do not take my top of in public due to scarring. Its faded, but I still get it and have it even to this day.

I bounced back fine but I was not one of the usual cases IMO. I have forgotten how many times I have had a newbie PM me and ask me what to do panicing as he cant get his dick hard, has no energy and has a total testosterone level of 200. You may or may not bounce back fine after doing steroids, I cant tell if you will or wont, but it happens. Those cases then end up on HRT at 21 years of age injecting testosterone in their glutes every 1-2 weeks for the rest of their natural life.

IF you cycle, take the neccessary steps and limit ANY damage you may do. Use HCG, use an AI, limit the cycle length, take time off, get BW done prior to your cycle and after PCT (4-5 weeks after PCT is done), understand you may limit your growth, end up with scarring like me, or a small case of gyno (again like me).

I dont suggest you use Testosterone at your age. Tbol or Var would be what I would do now if I could turn back time. Or Hdrol the OTC pro-hormone.

[Lazarov]

Thanks for the answer fit2bOld.

[Atomini]

Different strokes for different folks. Adex is fast acting and easier to tolerate for most people. It has a 46hr half life so doses from .25-.50mg EOD are adequate. Recommended starting dose is .25mg EOD.

Aromasin is more effective but a suicide inhibitor and can permanently alter receptor integrity so I use it as a last resort.

This is absolutely wrong. Where did you hear/read this? I am positive that wherever you read this was a misunderstanding/misreading. I've heard this from other people before and it's plain wrong.

Aromasin won't lower IGF and impact lipids as much either.

If you have to dose an AI EOD or a few times per week, Arimidex and Letro would be the choice, but why would you have to do that in the first place.

Their outdated against Aromasin.

Correct and correct.

I have always advised people to select Aromasin as their primary AI while on cycle or during PCT. It is by far the superior AI, with no risk of aromatase or estrogen rebound following cessation. Letro has its place as the last-resort heavy artillery for issues like gyno. Arimidex pales in comparison to the abilities of Aromasin. I have personally exclusively used Aromasin as my AI in any cycle where I require one, and I have not once ever had a problem. I have never ever used Arimidex, and never will.

[Lazarov]

Run the HCG 250 iu 2x/week up to pct.

The old HRT guy says you should hold off????

I've read on multiple forums that some take it the couple of weeks before PCT. But I think Swifto's way is better, keeping the testes at least partly working throughout the whole cycle.

[Lunk1]

My advice to you (if you care to take it) is not to cycle. Yes, I cycled at 19 years of age and now at almost 27 I wish I didnt. Why? Because I got such bad acne that I do not take my top of in public due to scarring. Its faded, but I still get it and have it even to this day.

I bounced back fine but I was not one of the usual cases IMO. I have forgotten how many times I have had a newbie PM me and ask me what to do panicing as he cant get his dick hard, has no energy and has a total testosterone level of 200. You may or may not bounce back fine after doing steroids, I cant tell if you will or wont, but it happens. Those cases then end up on HRT at 21 years of age injecting testosterone in their glutes every 1-2 weeks for the rest of their natural life.

IF you cycle, take the neccessary steps and limit ANY damage you may do. Use HCG, use an AI, limit the cycle length, take time off, get BW done prior to your cycle and after PCT (4-5 weeks after PCT is done), understand you may limit your growth, end up with scarring like me, or a small case of gyno (again like me).

I dont suggest you use Testosterone at your age. Tbol or Var would be what I would do now if I could turn back time. Or Hdrol the OTC pro-hormone.

Jesus Swifto...I assumed you were as old as dirt. 27???? Damn kid yet lol....

[Lazarov]

My advice to you (if you care to take it) is not to cycle. Yes, I cycled at 19 years of age and now at almost 27 I wish I didnt. Why? Because I got such bad acne that I do not take my top of in public due to scarring. Its faded, but I still get it and have it even to this day.

I bounced back fine but I was not one of the usual cases IMO. I have forgotten how many times I have had a newbie PM me and ask me what to do panicing as he cant get his dick hard, has no energy and has a total testosterone level of 200. You may or may not bounce back fine after doing steroids, I cant tell if you will or wont, but it happens. Those cases then end up on HRT at 21 years of age injecting testosterone in their glutes every 1-2 weeks for the rest of their natural life.

IF you cycle, take the neccessary steps and limit ANY damage you may do. Use HCG, use an AI, limit the cycle length, take time off, get BW done prior to your cycle and after PCT (4-5 weeks after PCT is done), understand you may limit your growth, end up with scarring like me, or a small case of gyno (again like me).

I dont suggest you use Testosterone at your age. Tbol or Var would be what I would do now if I could turn back time. Or Hdrol the OTC pro-hormone.

I do care to take it. Hopefully I'll bounce back like you did.

[Lazarov]

Man, I'm reading all these stories about guys turning into emotional females from Clomid lol... Any similar experiences?

[Swifto]

Jesus Swifto...I assumed you were as old as dirt. 27???? Damn kid yet lol....

I'm 26, 27 early next year. A lot of people assume I am older, but I'm not at all.

[Swifto]

I do care to take it. Hopefully I'll bounce back like you did.

Get some accutane and keep on hand. I wish someone told me to do that years ago.

[austinite]

I'm 26, 27 early next year. A lot of people assume I am older, but I'm not at all.

Easy to understand why people think he's older. Very educated individual.

[Atomini]

Man, I'm reading all these stories about guys turning into emotional females from Clomid lol... Any similar experiences?

Despite what others have said on here, I am very firm on my stance that Clomid is essentially, for the most part during this day and age, a bygone of the 1980s. Its use is obsolete and outdated when a lot of the studies and research on Nolvadex is taken into consideration. I am not going to ramble on about it, as I have made countless posts upon posts here about this subject. In my opinion, it has far more drawbacks than benefits and is considerably weaker at LH and FSH release stimulation than Nolvadex is.

[Lunk1]

I'm 26, 27 early next year. A lot of people assume I am older, but I'm not at all.

Enjoy your youth my friend...it's sneeks away far too quickly

[Atomini]

I do care to take it. Hopefully I'll bounce back like you did.

This attitude is rediculous and very high risk. You realize that by treating this whole endeavor in such a manner, it really is like playing Russian roulette with your HPTA?

"Well, here goes! I'm going to run across the street with a blindfold on, and like you, hopefully I won't get slammed by a car doing it!"