Question about aspirating

[asquarecan]

Hey guys,

I am on week 4 and everything is going great, there is only 1 thing that seems to frustrate me. I am pinning 1cc TestE with a 3cc syringe and 25g 5/8 needle in delt. First time there was no issues but last 2 pins I find it quite difficult to aspirate. It is very difficult to pull the plunger back. Any idea or tips? Last week I went all the way in and then pull the physical needle back just a hair because aspirating but still was not easy.

Thanks

[Lunk1]

My guess is your pulling to hard..it takes very little pressure to aspirate. pulling air bubbles is not always necessary. If your in a vessal then a small, light tug will reesult in back pressure filling the syringe with blood...YOU WILL KNOW IT!

[Wazz]

Perfect answer... Sounds like you're trying to get too much air.

So long as you don't draw blood your ok. If you touch a nerve (usually quads) just pull back a bit, aspirate & push. Been pinning for 7 years now (everything but AAS). Eventually (the more you pin) you'll learn every nook & cranny that's good, bad, sore, bruises, ect....

Oh, w/ larger pin it's not uncommon when pinning fast to get a very small piece of tissue in the tip. Make aspirating difficult.

[OdinsOtherSon]

We have a couple nurses in our family. I've quizzed them about aspirating...here's what they say, that when a pin is properly placed (one whose tip has not terminated in a vein) aspiration should be "difficult." IE, the plunger should be difficult to draw. If you can't budge it, that's good. No need to see air bubbles. If the plunger draws easily and your syringe barrel fills with blood, naturally you're in a vein and should relocate. Small amounts of blood are GTG.

[MickeyKnox]

I never aspirate the delt.

Im not suggesting you don't, just saying i don't.

[OdinsOtherSon]

I never aspirate the delt.

Im not suggesting you don't, just saying i don't.

Hey Mickey, I've noticed the past few times I've had to go see the doc and get a shot, which they're gonna shoot you either in the delt or hip, that the health care pros don't seem to bother aspirating anymore. Last time a health care pro aspirated an injection they gave me was 10 years ago, shot was in left delt. I saw a small amount of blood enter the barrel but just enough to cause a small "lava lamp" look. She didn't hesitate to push that sucker on through...haven't really noticed them doing it since. Just guessing here, but would you say that aspiration could potentially be reserved for areas, such as quads, where
veins of a larger size and number are located? Your above comment has pushed some thoughts I've been having on this topic up to the surface. Thanks man

[rmbX66t1]

I never aspirate the delt.

Im not suggesting you don't, just saying i don't.

I'll be the first to admit it is a horrible practice, but I no longer aspirate in my quads, glutes, delts, or lats. After poking enough veins and nerves, I know the clean places to hit. It is only when I move to an unfamiliar location, that I decide to aspirate.

[asquarecan]

Thanks a lot guys! That's great info! Helped a lot with today's pin!

[cro]

they never pull back when they shoot you in the service or at the doctor

[Sworder]

Scar tissue build up! Start rotating or next time you inject in your delt you will probably aspirate the oil from your previous injection. It's gross

[MickeyKnox]

Hey Mickey, I've noticed the past few times I've had to go see the doc and get a shot, which they're gonna shoot you either in the delt or hip, that the health care pros don't seem to bother aspirating anymore. Last time a health care pro aspirated an injection they gave me was 10 years ago, shot was in left delt. I saw a small amount of blood enter the barrel but just enough to cause a small "lava lamp" look. She didn't hesitate to push that sucker on through...haven't really noticed them doing it since. Just guessing here, but would you say that aspiration could potentially be reserved for areas, such as quads, where
veins of a larger size and number are located? Your above comment has pushed some thoughts I've been having on this topic up to the surface. Thanks man

Thats a personal choice bro. It would be irresponsible of me to recommend you not aspirate. But i can share with you that my doc does not aspirate when he has shot me in the glute.

I'll be the first to admit it is a horrible practice, but I no longer aspirate in my quads, glutes, delts, or lats. After poking enough veins and nerves, I know the clean places to hit. It is only when I move to an unfamiliar location, that I decide to aspirate.

You are not alone.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Thanks Mickey...I realize you can't post out here on an open forum, "no need to aspirate," but I got ya!! Thanks man!

[Lunk1]

Anybody who says there is no need to aspirate is friggin retarded!!!!!!!!!!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!! When there are practices available that are NOTHING BUT benificial then why not take advantage of them?

Is asperating so god damn time consuming or difficult that it's really not worth taking the extra precaution? Hell no it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait till you pull back a bit and blood comes rushing in so fast the plunger slides back on it's own. Trust me you will asperate from then forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OdinsOtherSon]

Anybody who says there is no need to aspirate is friggin retarded!!!!!!!!!!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!! When there are practices available that are NOTHING BUT benificial then why not take advantage of them?

Is asperating so god damn time consuming or difficult that it's really not worth taking the extra precaution? Hell no it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait till you pull back a bit and blood comes rushing in so fast the plunger slides back on it's own. Trust me you will asperate from then forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I totally agree. Its the same argument you see over and over here about the use of hcg. "Do you really need it? Do I need to run it from the start of my cycle? Can I just keep it on hand in case the boys shrink up?" I get it. The sh!t works, makes recovery and pct easier. Aspiration is a no brainer as well. It takes what, 2 secs and is an invaluable insurance protocol. Never meant to imply that "there is no need to aspirate" !!!

[Bigshotvictoria]

Anybody who says there is no need to aspirate is friggin retarded!!!!!!!!!!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!! When there are practices available that are NOTHING BUT benificial then why not take advantage of them?

Is asperating so god damn time consuming or difficult that it's really not worth taking the extra precaution? Hell no it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait till you pull back a bit and blood comes rushing in so fast the plunger slides back on it's own. Trust me you will asperate from then forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely!!! The risk of injecting into a blood vessel is small if you landmark correctly, but consequences of doing so are pretty bloody bad. Why skip something that takes a fraction of a second.

It's like asking if you really need to swab the site before you pin. Why the hell wouldn't you?

[Steelfan]

The entire point of aspirating when you inject yourself with a substance is to ensure that you are NOT in a vein or artery. If you aspirate and get easy blood return DO NOT INJECT!! You have inadvertently hit a vein and if you inject the stuff it will be immediately in your blood stream. When injecting gear you want them to be injected intramuscularly and NOT intravenously. The purpose of an intramuscular injection is to get the gear into your system with out having to pass through the gut and liver. I am a paramedic. I inject medications intramuscularly to ensure the medication gets into the system quickly uffwithout passing throught the gut which would degrade the potentecey. I only inject stuff directly into the vein if I want them to work immediately. For the life saving things I use this is great, for performance inhancers it is not just dangerous, its down right stupid. When pinning you want to inject the gear into the muscle so it is absorbed slowly and safely, bipassing the liver, you do not EVER want to inject gear directly into the vein as this would send too much directly into the blood stream immediately. Get yourself a decent nursing handbook and educate yourself on the proper technique for intramuscular injections. I believe a large percentage of the adverse side effects of "gear" could be avoided if people would simply get smart about the process of getting them into the body! Its not hard to do it right but it VERY easy to do it wrong!!! As a medical professional I am happy to try and answer any questions on techniques like this!

[Steelfan]

they never pull back when they shoot you in the service or at the doctor

Dude if this is the truth you need to change doctor's offices!! Aspiration is the ONLY way to ensure that the substance is injected intramuscularly and NOT intraveinously. A substance that is supposed to be injected intramuscularly accidently 'mainlined" into a vein can kill you!!

[austinite]

Dude if this is the truth you need to change doctor's offices!! Aspiration is the ONLY way to ensure that the substance is injected intramuscularly and NOT intraveinously. A substance that is supposed to be injected intramuscularly accidently 'mainlined" into a vein can kill you!!

Most RN's don't aspirate in the delt. Never did for me. You also have to remember that most injections done by RN's are not steroids.

[Steelfan]

Anybody who says there is no need to aspirate is friggin retarded!!!!!!!!!!! Plain and simple!!!!!!!! When there are practices available that are NOTHING BUT benificial then why not take advantage of them?

Is asperating so god damn time consuming or difficult that it's really not worth taking the extra precaution? Hell no it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait till you pull back a bit and blood comes rushing in so fast the plunger slides back on it's own. Trust me you will asperate from then forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man you are dead on!! Its this type of laziness and stupidity that have created the stygma of roid use! How hard is it to learn the proper technique and follow it?!?! It amazes me that people that work this hard to have nice bodies won't take 10 minutes to educate themselves on the proper way into inject themselves!! MORONS!!!

[Sworder]

Most RN's don't aspirate in the delt. Never did for me. You also have to remember that most injections done by RN's are not steroids.

Don't they have to get, like, an education to do IM injections? If they do, that's stupid! The guy I bought my gear from showed me in a minute how to do it. Obviously I have been properly trained so I don't have to aspirate neither.

[austinite]

Don't they have to get, like, an education to do IM injections? If they do, that's stupid! The guy I bought my gear from showed me in a minute how to do it. Obviously I have been properly trained so I don't have to aspirate neither.

There are videos that train people how to inject, and specifically state "You do not have to aspirate in the delt". It's all over youtube. Videos by registered RN's.

I personally always do. Glad I do, because I've pulled blood from the delt.

[Steelfan]

Most RN's don't aspirate in the delt. Never did for me. You also have to remember that most injections done by RN's are not steroids.

Okay, I am not saying I disagree with you. As a paramedic I don't have the highest opinion of RNs. What I will say is this. Check any textbook (nursing, paramedic, or even Doctor) on the proper technique for performing intramuscular injections and absolutely every single one of them will state that aspirating is an ESSENTIAL safety step in the proceedure regardless of what sight or what substance is injected.

[austinite]

Okay, I am not saying I disagree with you. As a paramedic I don't have the highest opinion of RNs. What I will say is this. Check any textbook (nursing, paramedic, or even Doctor) on the proper technique for performing intramuscular injections and absolutely every single one of them will state that aspirating is an ESSENTIAL safety step in the proceedure regardless of what sight or what substance is injected.

Sure. I am not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that they don't do it (in my experience, MANY times, MANY different RN's). What's in the textbook is irrelevant to my statement.

[austinite]

Skip to 2:50

[Lunk1]

Everyone using AAS aspirate!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats a gd damn order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steelfan]

Everyone using AAS aspirate!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats a gd damn order!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

umm ya what he said.

[Bonaparte]

How the **** did this thread turn into another cluster**** about how RNs perform injections???
It doesn't matter.

OP: you're pulling way too hard. Just the fact that you are met with resistance and not a syringe full of blood accomplishes your goal.

[Steelfan]

fair enough. I just know what I have been trained and why. I did a quick search and the main reason that aspiration in the deltiod has been removed as a step in some training books/videos is because it causes the injection to be "slightly more painful and last a few seconds longer." In my opinion that is a silly reason to remove a safety step. My point is this you could inject yourself 100,000 times without a problem and on the 100,001st time accidently inject directly into the vein. why take a risk for such a small step? Aspirating takes a second tops, and doesn't hurt so why not do it even in the delt? Not try to be a dick here but I can't seem to find an argument against aspiration that makes sense.

[Sworder]

fair enough. I just know what I have been trained and why. I did a quick search and the main reason that aspiration in the deltiod has been removed as a step in some training books/videos is because it causes the injection to be "slightly more painful and last a few seconds longer." In my opinion that is a silly reason to remove a safety step. My point is this you could inject yourself 100,000 times without a problem and on the 100,001st time accidently inject directly into the vein. why take a risk for such a small step? Aspirating takes a second tops, and doesn't hurt so why not do it even in the delt? Not try to be a dick here but I can't seem to find an argument against aspiration that makes sense.

You know how some people are ambidextrous? What if the person in question doesn't know how to use EITHER hand proficiently? Wouldn't that be a just cause that may warrant the notion to perhaps skip aspirating?

[Lunk1]

You know how some people are ambidextrous? What if the person in question doesn't know how to use EITHER hand proficiently? Wouldn't that be a just cause that may warrant the notion to perhaps skip aspirating?

I would say if a person can't use either hand then I would think AAS use in general would be pointless

[Sworder]

Well, I mean, I can't use my left hand as well as my right. I am not ambidextrous, but I still lift with my left hand. Maybe that's why my left arm is a little smaller, because I am not ambidextrous.

So you are saying that if a person is non-dextrous their arms will be about a quarter of an inch smaller than an ambidextrous person?

Edit: Very insightful Lunk! I didn't know you would be able to make anatomical measurements on those factors. Gotta head out, have a good night

[asquarecan]

Wow this really ended up going a different direction lol! Great info on aspirating though. I dont understand why anyone wouldnt even if you "dont have to" 1/2 a sec and your are good!

[cro]

i always aspire,was just letting others know, over 4 years in the marine corps and id have to say 100 + shots never 1 aspire,

Dude if this is the truth you need to change doctor's offices!! Aspiration is the ONLY way to ensure that the substance is injected intramuscularly and NOT intraveinously. A substance that is supposed to be injected intramuscularly accidently 'mainlined" into a vein can kill you!!

[Bigshotvictoria]

Lets not knock RN's, I married one. LOL. Certain meds are actually ment to be given without aspiration. The flu shot being one of them. Steelfan, you were trained to always aspirate because its not a contraindications of any meds in your protocols/treatment guidelines.

I know it sounds strange, but aspirating certain meds is actually bad practice. Of course with AAS this is not the case.

[Bonaparte]

Lets not knock RN's, I married one. LOL. Certain meds are actually ment to be given without aspiration. The flu shot being one of them. Steelfan, you were trained to always aspirate because its not a contraindications of any meds in your protocols/treatment guidelines.

I know it sounds strange, but aspirating certain meds is actually bad practice. Of course with AAS this is not the case.

Why? I fail to see how a tiny tug to check for a vacuum could be detrimental.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Why? I fail to see how a tiny tug to check for a vacuum could be detrimental.

To be honest, I really don't know why. I'll ask the old lady the next time she calls.

[Bigshotvictoria]

She directed me here, pretty interesting read as well:

http://www.stti.iupui.edu/pp07/vanco...0L.-F%2010.pdf

[Bonaparte]

Nowhere in that powerpoint does it say that aspiration is a "bad practice" with any drugs.
Just because something isn't indicated does not mean it is contraindicated.
And their only arguments against aspiration was that it makes the injection take longer (which scares kids), and that it is not always effective in it's goal.
But this was dealing with mainly water-based injections in the deltoid, not oil in your glute or anywhere else.

[Bigshotvictoria]

Nowhere in that powerpoint does it say that aspiration is a "bad practice" with any drugs.
Just because something isn't indicated does not mean it is contraindicated.
And their only arguments against aspiration was that it makes the injection take longer (which scares kids), and that it is not always effective in it's goal.
But this was dealing with mainly water-based injections in the deltoid, not oil in your glute or anywhere else.

To Quito it directly: Elimination of the aspiration technique has the potential to(2,5,14):
 Reduce injection, duration time & decrease injection pain
 Increase medication injection compliance

IM injection of certain small particle meds do not require Aspiration, and studies have shown that in these instances it is best practice not to. Healthcare workers are mandated to follow current best practice. By definition not doing so is in fact bad practice. Yes, this is specific to water based delt injections. Other posters in this thread have stated that they don't understand why RN's don't always aspirate, and assumed it was soley based on laziness/complacency. I fear you may believe I am arguing against aspiration in general; if this is the case please review my previous posts in this thread and I'm confident you'll come to a different conclusion. I have, in fact, posted very clearly that AAS doesn't fall into this category, and strongly advocate aspiration.

Again, so that we're absolutely clear, I stated not all IM's require aspiration. I concede that contraindication was the wrong word, as I myself have found; but in those instances is not best practice. This in no way relates to AAS injections, as I thought was apparent. In this I am posting no false or dangerous information, and am having trouble understanding why you seem upset.

[Bonaparte]

Ah, I didn't read your previous posts much and just focused in on where you said that, according to your wife, it is bad practice to aspirate with certain meds.
I guess I was annoyed that I read through that whole powerpoint to see a bunch of patient compliance and comfort issues that I could have guessed, with nothing to support your wife's point.

Honestly, just pushing the meds slowly is more effective than aspirating, since aspirating is not always a sure thing (as they did mention in the powerpoint), and a little bit of oil won't hurt you (though 3ml pushed IV would suck).